Charger wrecked in NorCal, what an idiot!!

[Lennard]

Instagram quote: Those who know me know that I drove like a grandma in this car because I respect it so much. "

Is that why he has a roll cage in the car?  All the people I know with a roll cage in their car do not have it because they drive like a grandma.

[billssuperbird]

I hate the news and don't watch it.

[Mike DC]

Is that why he has a roll cage in the car?

"Is that why he was driving a high-powered muscle car?"  <--- same logic. 

[johnnycharger]

I have seen this charger before. Bad move but I hope the kid is ok.



http://m.napavalleyregister.com/news/local/cops-kids-mingle-at-sonoma-raceway/article_0ff61f94-2408-5249-970d-7273049c2fa0.html?mobile_touch=true

[VegasCharger]

Hogwash.  I've seen the Matrix over a million times but I never decided to break into a federal building and machine gun everyone inside of it.  Stupid people are stupid, and the worst part is there's a valuable car and now an innocent family that have been irrevocably  damaged by this douche bag...

I dunno; gunning people down is a little different than trying to slide a car around a corner.  Stupid and can get you thrown in jail, and you can end up killing people, but not a purposely malicious act. 

However, I've watched the 3 stooges a bunch and am constantly slapping people, poking them in the eyes and kitting them with hammers.  It could be related....

The principle is the same: media or external stimuli can't be used an excuse for aberrant behavior.  I hate it when we try to blame anything and everyone in the world other than the person directly at fault for whatever tragedy befalls us...

MYK you make strong valid points, 

[Troy]

The driver posted on Instagram, that he is OK, and that he was not speeding or 'drifting'. Somewhat of a media beatup. It's sad that if you own a musclecar people assume you must be a reckless driver.

https://www.instagram.com/p/94M2-iLZD3/?taken-by=wyatt_lennon

I got a speeding ticket once in my 73 Barracuda with the original, tired 318 and 904 automatic. I was on the highway moving along with Thanksgiving day weekend traffic. I got to court and the judge immediately jumped to the conclusion that I was out racing "to see what it could do". I almost decided to educate him on what an absolute dog the car was but just paid the fine (which magically doubled) instead. I'd bet every 21 year old kid with a Honda (any Honda) got the same treatment but my sisters in their minivans (who drive as fast or faster than me) wouldn't have even rated a comment.

Troy

[Lennard]

Is that why he has a roll cage in the car?

"Is that why he was driving a high-powered muscle car?"  <--- same logic. 

No, it's not. The high powered muscle car didn't come from the factory with a roll cage.  People add those if they plan on driving fast and thus need more protection.

[skip68]

Honestly I'm guilty of jumping to the conclusion that speed was involved when I see a wreck with any performance machine.  
This is my latest toy and if most of us saw my bike off the road totaled we presume speed or screwing around wouldn't we?    Without the real story that's going to be our first presumption mine included.   Though the truth could be a deer, bad tire or something else.  Could even have been mechanical failure.      

[oldcarnut]

I've read both this and the linked discussions about this unfortunate accident.  I'm curious as to extent of the damage on the vehicle that hit him.  I didn't see a picture of it anywhere but, arguments aside from assumptions,  the damage to the charger was pretty steep for a 35 mph zone.  The other vehicle damage was more on the other side of the pic but didn't look as mangled to me.  So if the roll cage wasn't there how much more damage would it have been or was the cage primarily for roll overs and not helping too much for side impact?  Doesn't seem to provide help to the argument made by many that the old steel is far more safer than the new steel when it's comes time for crushing under impact. 

[skip68]

It's a good thing he didn't have a passenger with him.   

[myk]

I've learned that old steel is not as effective at being in an accident as newer cars.  '09 Malibu vs '59 Bel-Air:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPF4fBGNK0U

Like one of the posters said, older cars weren't trying to be safe, they just needed to ride well and look fantastic...

[Mike DC]

 
That 1959 & 2009 Malibu crash was stacking the deck in favor of the new one.  They paired an X-framed old car against a unibody new car in an offset frontal crash. 

But the basic point is valid.  "Old thick steel cars are safer" was true in the aftermath of the 1970s gas crisis era when everything abruptly downsized.  But these days the road is full of modern cars that weight just as much as the old pre-crisis cars (or more) and have lightyears more R&D invested in their crashworthiness.



I think they said an F-150 whacked that Charger.  If it was a direct T-bone hit then that degree of damage doesn't surprise me at all, even for only 35 mph.   35mph one way + 35mph the other way (even if sliding sideways) = 70 mph.  Side impacts REALLY hurt old cars.  A modern F-150 with a couple people inside might have weighed 5000+ pounds.



As for the cage, it appears to have helped the Charger distort less.  But any rollcage isn't automatically an impenetrable fortress (just ask NASCAR).    And who knows how good the welds were?  

These days when Hollywood purposely wrecks an old car, they will put a whole lot more tubing into the car than a typical dragstrip-legal street machine's cage.   Even if the car has a rollcage that the audience is meant to see (Death Proof, Mad Max, Dukes, etc) there may still be twice as much tubing in the cage of the actual stunt car.  

[skip68]

Looks like the charger went under the truck.   The trucks windshield doesn't look broken.   Not saying the charger driver is lying but at 35-40mph I don't see how you lost control on a mild turn.   

[Mike DC]

No, it's not. The high powered muscle car didn't come from the factory with a roll cage.  People add those if they plan on driving fast and thus need more protection.

That's how you see it.  That's how I see it.  That's not how most of the public sees it.

It's an elective option to put in a go-fast part like a cage.  It's also an elective option to want a big block Charger and not a slant-6 Valiant (or a 2006 Corolla) in the first place.  The average person does not make the huge distinction between street & race modifications like we do.    

[Kern Dog]

"I think they said an F-150 whacked that Charger.  If it was a direct T-bone hit then that degree of damage doesn't surprise me at all, even for only 35 mph.   35mph one way + 35mph the other way (even if sliding sideways) = 70 mph.  Side impacts REALLY hurt old cars.  A modern F-150 with a couple people inside might have weighed 5000+ pounds. "

The combined forces of the MPH does NOT compute. Mythbusters had an episode that disproved your theory. You do not add the two mph numbers to arrive at a simple number. 100 mph head on against a 50 mph is not equivalent to a 150 mph impact.

[Mike DC]

        
The only difference is that there's a second vehicle to spread out the inpact.  

So run an F-150 into the side of a stationary parked Charger at 70 mph.  That's still one hell of a hit.  

[Kern Dog]

The forces oppose, they do not combine. Your theory is flawed.

[RallyeMike]

From the Instragram:

Ok so I know everyone has been seeing this on the news and yes I am ok but what they said about me is a lie. I was NOT speeding or drifting I was in fact goin (going close to) the speed limit but it was raining so the rain must have pulled the oils out of the pavement causing me to lose control and then got t boned by an on coming car. I do not remember anything happening prior I just remember driving down the road and next thing I knew I was in an ambulance. Those who know me know that I drove like a grandma in this car because I respect it so much. The news needs to get their shit figured out. That is all

I don't remember anything prior to the accident !!......

.... except that I was going the speed limit......

....... uh, .......and that it was raining,.....

and uh, .......that it was oily......

...and oh, yeah, ......that the oil and rain caused me to lose control.

Oh, and one other thing........ I recall that I was T-boned.

Also, I definitely remember that I was NOT drifting.

Yep. Other than that I don't remember anything.  

[skip68]

    case dismissed.   

[Mike DC]

 

The forces oppose, they do not combine. Your theory is flawed.

They "oppose"?  I don't quite understand what you mean here.  


I'm not claiming my example is 100% perfect.  I'm just saying 70 mph would be a lot closer to the truth than calling it a 35 mph impact if both cars were pointed at each other.  It's 70 mph, spread between the two cars. 

One could argue that this is only like 35 mph into a brick wall, yeah.  But I'm just thinking in terms of what we're all visualizing here - a truck running into a car.  If you subtract the background of planet earth and put the collision happening in outer space, then it's more like the F-150 moving at 70 mph and hitting a stationary Charger.

[Dino]

Common fellas remember Newton's laws.   

Two cars in a head on collision do not undergo a higher opposing force than they would hitting a stationary object.  This is subjet to variability of course as the stationary object can also move and give different results but you get the idea.  If a car hits a wall at 35 mph, and the wall doesn't give, then the opposing force towards the car is also 35 mph stopping the car dead in it's tracks.

The same happens if a car traveling the same speed hits car #1 head on.  Both cars stop moving (this is where variablility steers the cars in different directions depending on point of impact), yet the cars do stop moving.  At same speeds with vehicles of same mass, each car becomes the other's brick wall.  If the force would be doubled then the cars would be moving backwards at 35 mph once they get hit.  Since there is a chance of deflection when hitting another car, it's usually a better option than hitting the wall or a tree, the things that don't budge.

I don't know what hapened in this case and I'm not going to speculate about it either.  I prefer to deal with facts and I haven't seen any here or on FBBO.  It's a bit sad to see the cries about a hunk of metal, but not a whole lot about the people injured.  The car can be replaced, I'd be much more concerned about the people here.

I like cars as well and would hate to lose mine, but it's worthless compared to a human life.  When I had my 68 I threw it in front of a sliding car to deflect it from hitting a bicyclist.  It was a gut reaction more than anything else, but I never thought bad about it and wouldn't think twice of doing it again.  The massive dent in the quarter was a battle scar worn with pride. 

I see plenty people complain about the news making stuff up and jumping to conclusions, rightfully so to be sure, but are we doing anything differently?

[jessejames]

One word... IDIOT!!!

[Kern Dog]

One word... IDIOT!!!

Yeah... because smart guys like you never make mistakes.
There can sometimes exist what has been called "A Perfect Storm" of events. Some refer to it as "All planets in alignment."
Rain.
A curved road.
A crown at the apex of the curve.
A high HP car.
Tires not rated well for wet surfaces.
Brakes, steering or accelerator applied at the wrong time or at the wrong amount.
Distractions whether in the car or outside.
Take all of the above or just a few of them and an accident can happen. Unless you were in the car or saw it happen, you are no better than some jerkoff journalist writing an attack article without knowing all of the facts.
I have had the ass end of my car come out on me unexpectedly, who hasn't? I have had it kick down a gear under moderate acceleration and the car has wanted to drift.
It is entirely possible that the driver was tooling along responsibly and hit a slick spot, then reacted poorly. It is terrible for all involved that this happened, but it is equally terrible to demonize someone without knowing all of the facts, which we might never get.

[ikbrown]

I started following him on instagram awhile back - it's a 1970 Charger with a built 440 motor that's tubbed and caged for drag racing - he has different wheels and slicks for the track. The steelies were his daily driving setup but I can't speculate about what kinda tires he ran.

I would seem to agree with Kern Dog that it could have been a perfect storm of unfortunate circumstances which led to an accident. We haven't had too much rain in CA and this took place after the fairly heavy rain we just had this weekend - I can imagine the roads were fairly slick in spots, so if you were going a touch too fast and blipped the throttle, turned too sharp, reacted to something in the road, it could've easily caused a spin.

Good thing is that everyone came out OK and there wasn't any passenger at the time of the crash! Scary to think how much worse the damage to the Charger could've been without the roll cage. I'll stick to keeping my Charger a fair-weather car

[A12 Superbee]

You can be doing everything right and still have something bad happen.

This happened to me on a wet road, driving below the speed limit on a high quality asphalt road. It was slippery, on a gentle bend, when the arse just departed from normal procedure and I spun the car and put it into a barrier.

I was not being a fool or drifting, I drive this thing like its the last one of its kind on earth, only letting lose when the conditions are totally in my favor.

This time, I became a passenger in a slow moving out of control object.

If there had been traffic coming the other way, my car would look at least as bad as this Charger.

Sometimes there is absolutely nothing you can do, your number came up.