Anybody ever tried FI Tech fuel injection?

[Laowho]

Well, I'm about to get a crash course in the timing control feature. I just ordered the two wire MSD distributor from Pace performance, and will install it this weekend. I'll post an update not the results.

Looking forward to this. Everything I've read elsewhere hadn't been using the timing control feature, and we definitely want it to given our compression (if that's valid--still learning).

Oops...no such luck. "There is no learning for timing control. If your engine experiences knocking, it won't make any adjustment by itself – you have to do the adjustment with the tables provided. The distributor must also be properly set with a timing light – to synchronize the distributor with the engine and handheld."

[JR]

The way I understand it is, since our engines don't have knock sensors, the computer doesn't know when it's detonating. Those hard limits must be programmed in with the handheld.

The billet distributor is installed with a "locked out" rotor, about 15 degrees or so before tdc. All the normal timing advance/retard done by the old vacuum can and mechanical weights is now done in the ECU. The distributor is never moved or adjusted again.

But, the advantage is you can pull or add timing with a couple of button presses, instead of popping the hood and doing it the old fashioned, time consuming way. And if you have the power adder version, it will pull or add timing to account for nitrous or boost.

Ultimately my car will have a 175 shot of spray, and I like the idea of the ECU pulling the timing as necessary.

I have off all weekend, the parts arrive tomorrow. I hope to update this post Sunday evening with pics.

[Laowho]

Well after yer post I've since just returned from a grand tour of things that go knock in the night. Figure I've completed the circuit cuz I just ran smack back  into where I started, static CR, this time tho coupled w/ VE, as THE single contributing factor to detonation. Bottom line bein that the EFI will help w/ our concerns over bein on some ragged compression edge (10:1 / 8.2:1 DCR) wh/ will only go up w/ the Eddy 84cc RPMs we wanna put on.

[Dino]

Adding a question to the thread here:

Anyone try, or is considering, the Holley Sniper kit? $995 and seems to do what the power adder version of the Fitech does, although I'm not 100% sure on that. It can be used with the Fitech fuel command center as well for those who are interested in doing so.

When I have the time I'm installing a Tanks Inc tank and the Walbro GPA-4 pump. I'll also replace my 1/4" return line with a 3/8" line and modify them for AN connectors and hoses. I'll wait to order the EFI kit when I've seen more reviews on the Holley kit.

[TommyGun]

I'm thinking about it. Pretty much the same thing as FiTech but the thing I like is it can run two fans where the FiTech can only run one unless you go to the 1200 power adder version(which is more $).  Ive already got a Tanks inc tank and pump on my car so should be pretty simple.

[moparguy01]

If you use the fan circuit on the fitech to trigger a relay, you could run 2 fans off of it.

[TommyGun]

Good idea 👍

[JR]

Update:

It lives! I have a running 440 with functional timing control. I ran out of time today to fine tune the setup and drive it, but I'll post an update tomorrow with driving impressions. It fired right up. I'm using the MSD Pro Billet distributor #8546. It took longer to make the new plug wires with HEI ends than it did to convert everything else over.

So far so good!

[Dino]

Awesome! I'm looking forward to the updates.   

[Dino]

What intakes are you guys running? Reading up on tbi's a bit it seems these units are much more happy on single plane intakes. Which sucks because mine's a dual plane and I spent a lot of time making it purdy...

[BLK 68 R/T]

I was running the mopar dual plane. Which looks just like a performer RPM to me. I have the fast ez efi. Have read all the stuff as well saying the dual plane will run good but not great and eventually cause sensors to fail on the throttle body due to fuel reversion. I had to pull my intake to inspect the lifters due to a noise. I had a spare torker II that I painted and installed when putting it back together just to avoid any potential problems. Gained a little hood clearance that way anyway, now I can run a 3 in filter element instead of the 2 that was on there.

[Dino]

I really hate to replace the intake again. What if I run an open spacer? Shouldn't that technically make it a single plane?

[BLK 68 R/T]

I don't know enough about the systems to comment on whether or not a spacer would help  If you have the hood clearance it might we worth a shot if you have issues with the dual plane manifold.

[cdr]

I really hate to replace the intake again. What if I run an open spacer? Shouldn't that technically make it a single plane?

all you can do is try it, not every engine is the same. The problem is uneven  fuel distribution.

[Kern Dog]

A dual plane with a carb spacer is still a dual plane, just with a bigger plenum above it.

[garner7555]

I really hate to replace the intake again. What if I run an open spacer? Shouldn't that technically make it a single plane?

all you can do is try it, not every engine is the same. The problem is uneven  fuel distribution.

I have read about several people running FiTech on top of a RPM intake without any issues.   But some people say it does have issues.       I agree with Charlie, stick it on there and try it.   I already had a RPM intake so I put FiTech on it and I am just going to test it and see how it does.   It depends on the engine, and also partly depends on how picky you are.   

[raymond73]

Hi i used a eddy rpm performer last summer With a 1200 fitech and have 3000 miles on it! Flawless!!!  This summer i have a eddy torker ll With fitech and procharger f1 but it is still a lot of snow outside 😣😣

[Laowho]

They did run up against this on the MT show, had to use a single plane

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sQJPZYSoUI

(tho for the Holley)

[Troy]

The single plane intake *I believe* usually applies to port fuel injection where the intake is "dry". A dry intake is just moving air in an efficient manner with (hopefully) a smooth flow. Port injection assures the fuel gets applied exactly where it needs to be in the amount required. A single plane makes perfect sense for it! A Fitech is basically a carb replacement and the intake is "wet" just like with the carb. A wet intake needs to do all sorts of things like making sure fuel is distributed evenly and doesn't pool in certain spots. Theoretically, the engine should respond to an intake change in much the same way as it will with a carb (single plane moves power curves higher in the RPM range, dual plane usually exhibits torque lower down).

Having said all that... the sensors may very well have a problem on a dual plane intake. I can see that. But I don't think the engine itself cares.

I really hate to replace the intake again. What if I run an open spacer? Shouldn't that technically make it a single plane?

No, the single vs dual plane has to do with how the runners are shaped. A single plane gives a straighter, shorter, more direct path to the intake valves - but not all cylinders will have the same length runner. The dual plane tries to make all the runners an equal length and the resulting longer runners help with bottom end torque.

Troy

[cdr]

The single plane intake *I believe* usually applies to port fuel injection where the intake is "dry". A dry intake is just moving air in an efficient manner with (hopefully) a smooth flow. Port injection assures the fuel gets applied exactly where it needs to be in the amount required. A single plane makes perfect sense for it! A Fitech is basically a carb replacement and the intake is "wet" just like with the carb. A wet intake needs to do all sorts of things like making sure fuel is distributed evenly and doesn't pool in certain spots. Theoretically, the engine should respond to an intake change in much the same way as it will with a carb (single plane moves power curves higher in the RPM range, dual plane usually exhibits torque lower down).

Having said all that... the sensors may very well have a problem on a dual plane intake. I can see that. But I don't think the engine itself cares.

I really hate to replace the intake again. What if I run an open spacer? Shouldn't that technically make it a single plane?

No, the single vs dual plane has to do with how the runners are shaped. A single plane gives a straighter, shorter, more direct path to the intake valves - but not all cylinders will have the same length runner. The dual plane tries to make all the runners an equal length and the resulting longer runners help with bottom end torque.

Troy

It has nothing to do with sensors, it is a fuel distribution issue with a dual plane intake. Injectors turn on & off leaving lean & rich spots in the intake cycle with Throttle body injection, a carb delivers a % of fuel to air throughout the intake cycle, the fuel does NOT turn on & off. A single plane intake has a large plenum. & with the Tbody set up has fuel sitting in the bottom from all those injectors random spray to intake stroke, thus filling the leaner spots during the intake cycle.

[Troy]

The single plane intake *I believe* usually applies to port fuel injection where the intake is "dry". A dry intake is just moving air in an efficient manner with (hopefully) a smooth flow. Port injection assures the fuel gets applied exactly where it needs to be in the amount required. A single plane makes perfect sense for it! A Fitech is basically a carb replacement and the intake is "wet" just like with the carb. A wet intake needs to do all sorts of things like making sure fuel is distributed evenly and doesn't pool in certain spots. Theoretically, the engine should respond to an intake change in much the same way as it will with a carb (single plane moves power curves higher in the RPM range, dual plane usually exhibits torque lower down).

Having said all that... the sensors may very well have a problem on a dual plane intake. I can see that. But I don't think the engine itself cares.

I really hate to replace the intake again. What if I run an open spacer? Shouldn't that technically make it a single plane?

No, the single vs dual plane has to do with how the runners are shaped. A single plane gives a straighter, shorter, more direct path to the intake valves - but not all cylinders will have the same length runner. The dual plane tries to make all the runners an equal length and the resulting longer runners help with bottom end torque.

Troy

It has nothing to do with sensors, it is a fuel distribution issue with a dual plane intake. Injectors turn on & off leaving lean & rich spots in the intake cycle with Throttle body injection, a carb delivers a % of fuel to air throughout the intake cycle, the fuel does NOT turn on & off. A single plane intake has a large plenum. & with the Tbody set up has fuel sitting in the bottom from all those injectors random spray to intake stroke, thus filling the leaner spots during the intake cycle.

Ok, let's assume you just use really small injectors and fire them constantly... why would it behave differently than a carb? The reason EFI is more efficient than a carb is because it only supplies whatever fuel is needed by the engine so how is anything pooling? Just curious! I will have to do some research. I have one spare intake and it's an Edelbrock RPM Air Gap so if I can use it for a carb application instead then it will save me a little money.

And, ignoring fuel timing... don't you still have to consider the effects of single vs dual plane intakes on the engine? Won't it still shift the power curves?

Troy

[Troy]

Just did a very quick Google search...

Here's an answer directly from FiTech:
http://fitechefi.com/faq/what-is-better-a-dual-plane-or-a-single-plane-manifold/
What is better – a dual plane or a single plane manifold?

The intake design has no effect on how the fuel injection operates. It will work with both of them so you should be selecting the intake based on your engine build and use of the vehicle. If you are saying this is a street engine you would usually want all the bottom end torque you can get which is what a dual plane intake will provide.

Similar (sorry for the off brand stuff but I have a Mustang too and there seems to be a LOT of them running EFI):
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vintage-mustang-forum/964057-tb-efi-blue-thunder-dual-plane-intake.html
http://1969stang.com/forum/index.php/topic/54491-intake-for-fitech/
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/89-efi/947458-adding-fitech-mean-street-496-intake.html
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/89-efi/875969-fitech-efi-tuning-tips-info-sharing-ideas-settings-etc-8.html
http://www.bangshift.com/forum/forum/bangshift/tech-section/14440-dual-plane-vs-single-plane-intakes-efi

But, there's some interesting technical explanations here:
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vintage-mustang-forum/928969-my-fitech-efi-upgrade-thread-pictures-time-2.html#post7582073

Also, some of the "tests" were on LS engines and these seem to have a specific problem with dual plane intakes. I don't believe that will apply directly to every other engine on the planet.
http://forums.holley.com/showthread.php?17791-Single-Plane-vs-Dual-Plane

Troy

[cdr]

I really hate to replace the intake again. What if I run an open spacer? Shouldn't that technically make it a single plane?

all you can do is try it, not every engine is the same. The problem is uneven  fuel distribution.

  Look what my 1st reply said !!!!

[JR]

Sorry for the delay in updating this thread. I came down with a sinus infection that stopped me from working on anything, but anyhow, now the car has been running and driving for a couple of weeks with timing control and I have some experience.

I'm using the MSD two wire pro billet distributor #8546, and the final verdict is it's awesome.

Compared to the standard distributor with vacuum advance I was running, startup is faster, engine pulls smoother throughout the rpm range, and timing advance is seamless.

Now admittedly, I'm not an engine tuning guru, and my old distributor probably wasn't tuned optimally with the correct springs, etc, but I can't help but think even if it was, the computer can control the timing quicker and more efficiently than the old vacuum advance and springs that the OE stuff used.

It was 400 bucks total for the distributor and new plug wires with HEI terminals, but totally worth it. My car has never ran this well in the almost 20 years I've owned it.

[Dino]

Great news JR!  

I figured it would be a solid improvement. I'll have to sell off my Firecore stuff and get some new goodies. Sad that it won't work with the EFI systems as it's a solid ignition system, but I'd like to have the computer control it as well.  

What coil do you use?