Anybody ever tried FI Tech fuel injection?

[69wannabe]

Can't do this with a plug and play distributor. It is set up like a mopar distributor so the voltage won't be too high and burn up the coil and the orange box. I am looking at diode's to see which one I may need so I can tie into the brown wire and have voltage coming through to the white wire but no voltage back feeding after the engine starts up. Just need some advise on which diode to use!!

[John_Kunkel]

Only way to provide power in both ST and RUN is to use a diode as JR suggested or hook the white wire to the blue wire on the ballast and wire in a relay activated by the brown wire to supply power to the blue wire in the Start mode.

[69wannabe]

I have an old cat fork lift wiring harness that has 2 12 volt 25 amp diode's and where they plug in was also in perfect shape. I cut the harness of a good bit below where the diodes were so I would have plenty of lead wire going up to the plug in and the diode's. I PM'd Pete since he has helped me alot with other wiring projects I have done on my charger and the wiring has worked out great. He also mentioned a relay and also wiring in 2 diode's with the relay. I PM'd him today to see if he would fix me a diagram to go by since my relay wiring skills are not that great. If I have a diagram to go by I can run with it but if not I am kinda lost. My fuel command center is still on back order so I have plenty of time get my wiring fixed up and ready to go by the time my fuel command center get here.

[John_Kunkel]

This should work, connect the white power to "CC".

[69wannabe]

Looks easy enough to wire in but I wonder why the relay and not just install the diode in between the brown and blue wire and let it go from there. That will supply power to the white wire while in start position and block the voltage going back the other way. Pete had another suggestion for the relay and he is going to email me a diagram to go by. His description of wiring in the relay was different than this diagram and i'm not saying this wouldn't work fine but I think his wiring of the relay is more to power the white wire with it and keep the ign 1 and 2 wires completely separate. It's raining and crappy out today and the car is on jack stands so once I get the vent line ran I will get the car back on the ground and get this wiring issue figured out!!

[cdr]

If you tie the brown and blue wires from the resistor then the result will be 12 volts in start and run, but you'll be without a resistor.  I have the Firecore RTR so I got rid of the resistor. Can you do this with the plug and play version?  If so, go for it.

mine is like this & no diode with A plug & play dist, works just fine.

[69wannabe]

Running 12 volts to the coil will eventually burn up the coil. If you are running a mopar style orange box power to your coil is supposed to be reduced. It may burn the orange box up too.  I will wire a diode in for sure but it may be necessary to wire it through a relay to avoid too much voltage drop. The thing Pete said about just putting a diode between the brown and dark blue wire is that it may backfeed voltage to other components powered by the dark blue wire. The voltage regulator is powered by this wire but I am running a one wire alternator and the regulator I have on the firewall is just there for looks now. So just running a diode may actually work fine on my application.

[cdr]

on mine it needs 12v at the coil.

[garner7555]

My FiTech showed up in the mail today.      It will be a while before I get to install it, as my car is in a thousand pieces.  I haven't got to read into it much yet but how does it work if I wire in the timing to operate off the FiTech unit?  Will I need a crank sensor and trigger wheel?  What kind of ignition will I need?

I currently have this FBO ignition box  http://www.4secondsflat.com/Ignition.html

I was considering purchasing a Firecore distributor and wires.  If I order a distributor then I would like to set up my timing to work through the FiTech unit.  Can someone explan if this will work with my current setup and how?  Thanks!   

[myk]

Excellent question....

[cdr]

My FiTech showed up in the mail today.      It will be a while before I get to install it, as my car is in a thousand pieces.  I haven't got to read into it much yet but how does it work if I wire in the timing to operate off the FiTech unit?  Will I need a crank sensor and trigger wheel?  What kind of ignition will I need?

I currently have this FBO ignition box  http://www.4secondsflat.com/Ignition.html

I was considering purchasing a Firecore distributor and wires.  If I order a distributor then I would like to set up my timing to work through the FiTech unit.  Can someone explan if this will work with my current setup and how?  Thanks!   

the directions should tell you what to do, on others i have done you have to lock the advance mechanism, & set timing at 10 initial, also have to make sure the rotor is in phase with the dist cap contacts.

[igozumn]

I'm thinking this should work?

[69wannabe]

Pete got me hooked up with a relay and two diode diagram that will keep any voltage from back feeding and burning up components. I have the diagram out in the shop and I will explain how he did it so people will know how to do this in the future. He has helped me with my wiring problem's every since I started on these forums and has never steered me wrong. When I need some wiring help I always PM him for his suggestions and he is always good to get back with me with an answer. What he showed me made since once I saw how he did it. The double diodes isolates both ign 1 and ign 2 wires to keep them separate from each other while the key is in the on position but when the key is in the start position it puts voltage from both ign 1 and ign 2 to the white wire for the throttle body through the relay. The #30 pin goes to fused battery voltage. #85 pin to body ground. #87 pin goes to the white wire for the throttle body and the #86 pin goes to the negative/banded side of two diodes and the positive/inlet side of one diode goes to ign 1 and the other positive/inlet side of the remaining diode goes to ign 2. Pete called it an OR circuit.

[igozumn]

After studying my diagram for a looooong time, LOL, I see that I would need a diode in the brown wire right where it says "Brown".  The voltage in run (IGN 1) would backfeed (but at lower voltage) after passing through the ballast resistor and could/would trigger the relay.  That would kill the full 12 volts passing through 87A onto 30.  Backfeeding is a concern, but shouldn't be too much of a concern, I would think.  Even stock, in start (IGN 2), you're feeding back through the ballast resistor to the IGN 1 circuit anyway, though at the lower voltage again. 

[igozumn]

Ok.  Been stuck at work today and decided to find a way, LOL.  I have relays laying around at home.  Fitech is the round circle with the 4 smaller, well, the throttle body looking thing, LOL. 

[69wannabe]

Using two relays would work most likely, There may be several different ways to achieve putting power to both ign 1 and ign 2 with the key in the start position without any backfeeding consequences. I just decided to use the way Pete showed me with one relay and two diodes. The diodes I used came from an old forklift harness which Pete said were bigger than I actually needed but I had the harness so I was able to cut out both diodes and the pigtail they plugged into so if anything ever happens I can just unplug and plug in another diode without having to actually wire another one into the harness. I mounted the relay beside the resistor and the diodes are tied in right below the resistor for easy access if I need to swap one out anytime. If I ever get the fuel command center I will be in business!!! Still got to run my vent line but that won't take that long I don't think. Had 56 hours at work this week and I didn't feel like working on it today!!

[igozumn]

Yeah, I'm not opposed to diodes.  Just not real familiar with them, and the relays are easier for me to get.  I know my wife's Focus has a diode in the fuse block that looks like a fuse.  The idea of having a socket for one to plug into would be nice.  Just trying to figure out where to get, and make sure it's rated (however the ratings work for diodes) for the application, just had me scratching my head.  I contemplated ditching the orange box for an MSD to be able to get rid of the ballast resistor.  But at that point, I think I'd go back to planning out a Megasquirt multiport setup.  Or use the washer pump switch as a push button start and a hidden micro switch for the washer, LOL.  I mean, I'm going to have the cluster out for the voltmeter/ammeter swap anyway, so.....   But I'd loose the full 12 volt starting that the IGN 2 provides.  That is, I haven't looked real hard for a solution to that problem.  If only mother Mopar had extended the contact for IGN 1 just a littttttle bit further inside the switch. 

I worked up something similar with my motorcycle and 3 relays for the horns and fog/driving lights.  When you are running and the fog lights are not on, and you hit the horns, the fog lights flash when the horn sounds.  With the fog lights on, and you hit the horns, the lights turn off with the sound.  Visual as well as audible.

I was/am just about ready to order the Fitech and when this issue came up with the run/start power, I got a little concerned that I was going to have to rethink my efi strategy.    

[JR]

Dude, I promise the minor wiring challenge will be long forgotten once youve gotten used to efi. Its worth it. Any efi system you install will need it wired the same way.

You could always let the efi control timing, then it isnt even an issue, and you simplify things under hood as a bonus.

This has been ths best money ive ever spent on the car by far.

[igozumn]

......let the efi control timing......

I hadn't even thought of that.     I was in the BBQ smoker mindset of only changing one thing at a time to be able to keep tabs on improvements, etc., by keeping the ignition system the same.  When I started to add the price of an ignition box, it looked like I was back in Megasquirt multipoint dollars.  I'm not opposed to that.  What I'd want is the ProFlo Edelbrock like what Redmist has, but I haven't found a suitable solution on where to put the a/c compressor.  When I ran across the Fitech, the idea of a quick and less expensive installation was really appealing.  Have a friend that installed the Fitech on his Nova and he likes it so far. 

I think there's only one thing to do at this point.....

[garner7555]

Let me be a little more specific with my question.  When the FiTech "controls" the timing, does it do the advancing?  And if so does this require a certain distributor?   

[JR]

No problem igozumn, I actually ran mine the first couple of weeks as fuel control only before deciding I may as well swap it over. It makes much more sense. You do away with the ballast resistor, old ignition box, and vacuum advance all at once. You simplify things and add reliability.

You can wire it up to let an msd box or similar, control timing, but I don't see the need.

Yes, Garner, the fitech unit does the advancing in its' own ecu.

The mechanical/vacuum advance in the distributor is locked out to zero, all the advancing is done in the ecu. You also have to phase the rotor button directly under the #1 plug wire at tdc. But that's easy enough.

As for which distributor to use, Fitech's own directions call for a two wire distributor. Here is a useful thread discussing it.
http://www.forcbodiesonly.com/mopar-forum/threads/fitech-efi-question-and-answer.27076/


Here is a screenshot of the wiring instructions for installation with fuel and timing control. Sorry the pic is sideways. I'm doing this on my phone.



Sorry the right side is cut off. The wiring you can't see the end of all comes from the throttle body. All the relevant wiring is shown

[XH29N0G]

I am also interested in understanding how the timing control would be wired in.  There is something I do not understand. 

From the diagram, I gather that the distributor is used to tell the FI Tech control unit where the engine is, but I do not understand how it then connects up to the plug wires and plugs.  Are the plug wires still fed by the distributor?  Or by something else?  If they are fed by the distributor, why doesn't the spinning rotor determine when the plug fires?

I apologize if this is a naïve/stupid question, but if I don't ask I won't know, and I am not figuring it out myself from the online literature from FI tech.

[69wannabe]

Yes the distributor stays the same as far as firing the spark plugs and wires. Using the fi tech timing control you are letting the ecu inside the throttle body control your initial timing and your timing is advanced by the ecu like a modern vehicle. For now I am just going to use the fuel system and retain my regular ignition system since it is dialed in better than it has ever been. And wiring in the relay and the two diodes took me maybe an hour or so and that was me taking my sweet time!! Very minor wiring to get it hooked up and the diodes he recommended can be picked up at any radio shack or anywhere online. I just had free access to the ones I used but I think I saw a five pack of the one's he suggested for less than 5 bucks online. I will get that number he gave me and post it back on here for further reference. Glad to know you are very satisfied with the system JR and I can't wait to get mine up and running!!!!

[garner7555]

Awesome!  Thanks JR for the help.  I didn't realize that the 2 wire distributor had the ability to electronically advance the timing.   

JR did it improve your performance any when you hooked up your timing to the FiTech?

[JR]

No problem guys, you're welcome! Glad youre enjoying the setup 69wannabe. I am certain its the best money I've ever spent on the car.

I am actually in the process of switching mine over to timing control. I ran the fitech unit as fuel control only for the first couple of weeks of January, when I noticed some unrelated issues that needed addressing. So my car has been idle the last two weeks while I address everything.

I should scrape up enough free time this weekend to complete it, and I can give an update then.

However, I've read and talk to every other fitech customer I can find who installed there's with timing control, and I can't find a single complaint. Not one. Everyone seems to love it.

Not to mention the added peace of mind that comes with never having to worry about a ballast resistor going bad and stranding me again. I love simplifying the car. I have a 6AL box I could run now, but why bother?  Getting rid of clutter underhood is always a plus.

I'll post up the results this weekend after I have it back together. I fully expect the computer to handle timing control much better than the old vacuum advance ever did.