Anybody ever tried FI Tech fuel injection?

[68CoronetRT]

Random update for Fitech quality control.

Went and looked at a 67 Chevelle with a brand new Fitech unit yesterday. Fuel Command Center high pressure pump is DOA. Ran great for the 1st 20 miles and then it died. We'll see what Fitech says!

[JR]

That's a bummer. I'm not sold on the idea of the fuel command center. Two fuel pumps to potentially fail, plus assorted plumbing complexity. I'd recommend to anyone to go with a replacement fuel tank with a submerged pump anyday.

Did you get the 12volts during cranking issue sorted on your Holley?

[68CoronetRT]

The weather has been really crappy here in "Sunny San Diego", so it's on hold for a couple days. Hoping to have it all wired up this week.

[igozumn]

I had noticed some time back, that it seemed like my tank was getting warm.  Didn't know what was causing it.  Don't believe it to be exhaust, as it's the same setup as before the swap.  I need to double check though, just to make sure the tank isn't touching.  Had it out Saturday for the 3rd or 4th time since putting electric fans on (need to start thread on that).  First time it'd been around 80 degrees since putting them on.  Stopped at a store after running around for half an hour and thought I had a tire going flat, since I heard hissing as I was walking away.  Got close enough to tell it was coming from the gas cap.  Popped it open and "whoooooosh" all this vapor came out.  Guess I need to look into my vent and find out what's going on.  Tank is getting warm/hot-ish though. 

Anybody else notice/check their tank temp? 

[JR]

I researched into that a while back.

Mine got too hot originally and killed my first fuel pump.

In my particular case, I rerouted the fuel line to be as far away from the exhaust underhood as possible, added ceramic coated headers to replace the original bare cast iron manifolds, blocked off the intake crossover,  removed the underhood access service plates, and added a cool carb spacer, and added a 3/8th fuel return line. (In the near future, I am also planning on adding fuel line heat shields, a fresh air intake, and water methanol injection to further aid reliability.)

Basically the fuel is heated to begin with by going through the high pressure fuel pump, through the hot engine bay, and then it is heated within the throttle body and returned to the tank. It takes about an hour for the effect to be noticable.

My personal theory is our cars don't have good thermal management underhood. I tested this alot last summer, and discovered that on a 90 degree day, most of my modern vehicles see underhood ambient temps in the 125-150 degree range. Before I went with my ceramic coated headers, my Charger was seeing 140-180 degrees underhood, and as high as 220 when sitting in downtown traffic at long red lights.

That was just cooking the fuel as it was recirculating.

After I made the above modifications, the problem seems to have disappeared. It seems to be happy now, and I can drive it all day without any symptoms of fuel heating up.

Where is your fuel line routed igozumm? The exhaust may not have interfered with your old carb, but now the high pressure fuel pump by nature also heats the fuel as it circulates it, so there is an additional source of heat there. And youre recirculating the fuel through the system much faster than your old carburetor's fuel pump did, so youre exposing the fuel in the tank to the high underhood temps much quicker.

That was my experience.

[303 Mopar]

Tank is getting warm/hot-ish though. 

Anybody else notice/check their tank temp? 

The tank on my Cuda was getting warm, with the hissing and I could hear the pump getting really loud.  I called tanksinc.com and they said the tank needs two vent lines in addition to a vented gas cap.

[igozumn]

Stock location.  New 3/8 supply and using the original 5/16 supply as the return.  Stock manifolds.  I do have hose running from the throttle body forward around the distributor, down between the alternator and block over to the hard lines.  I'll get under it and look to see if something is closer than it should be.  I also wonder if my vent system, which isn't even shade-tree good, should be re-done.  I did it dirty to get the thing running, and had plans to clean it up.  But haven't really had the pressure build up until recently.  I'll check the vent to make sure it's not plugged or something. 

JR, interesting that you bring up poor underhood thermal management.  Since putting dual electric fans (Ford Contour), my interior is noticeably warmer.  Enough so, that I keep checking to make sure the heater isn't on, LOL.  I'm sure the fans constantly blowing/pulling all that hot air and throwing it back at the firewall is the cause.  80 degrees the other day, and I had to open the wing vent.  Or maybe I'm hitting man-o-paws.     I still need a final 1/2 hour idle test, to see if it cools as well as I hope.  But even on low speed, God bless Fitech and the 2 fan controls, you can really feel the air moving.

[igozumn]

Had an '88 Shelby Daytona Turbo I a/t before finally getting an '87 Shelby Daytona TII.  When I bought the '87, it had a melted carpet in the back left, right above the muffler.  Weird, I thought.  Happened to be looking through a consumer reports book and it had mentioned something about that issue on Daytonas.  Dodge put an aluminum heat shield on later years.  But it was hot enough to burn your hand.  Looked under it and no heat shield.  Next trip to the pick-n-pull, I grabbed 2.  Cut one down to fit inside/on top/under the other and spaced it with nuts.  Double heat shield.  Bolted it in and the trunk floor was cool to the touch on a 95 degree day.  

[JR]

With the way your fuel line is routed igozumm, I think you're cooking the fuel in the line.

I used to have mine routed like yours, but after chasing the hot fuel issue, I routed them straight back to the firewall and down the right rear corner of the inner fender to get them away from the heat.

Those bare cast iron manifolds radiate a TON of heat. And like i said earlier, it only takes about an hour for your high pressure fuel pump to circulate all the fuel through the lines and heat it up.

I would reroute those fuel lines ASAP, get them off the hot engine.

[igozumn]

But there's soooo much stuuuuuuff over there.  I guess I could pull the motor and figure something out, LOL.  Did you just run/move your braided (I searched out one of your posts and found a progress pic) over and down?  Over the valve cover, around the back of the head, or down the bellhousing?

[JR]

But there's soooo much stuuuuuuff over there.  I guess I could pull the motor and figure something out, LOL.  Did you just run/move your braided (I searched out one of your posts and found a progress pic) over and down?  Over the valve cover, around the back of the head, or down the bellhousing?

Here's how I did it Igozumn. (Im currently in the middle of reflooring my house, but I had time to run out and take this quick, crappy pic.)

I cut the factory fuel line at the firewall, and ran the hose up the firewall in the corner of the engine bay. I cut maybe two feet off the original hard line. (Excuse the dirty engine bay, it is constantly being tweaked and changed.)

Routing the fuel line this way, along with the other changes I made cured my hot fuel tank issue. It's no longer a problem. This seems to be the farthest the fuel line can get away from the engine heat. (Although I just realized you may have A/C and heat hooked up, there still should be a way around there.)

It alone may or may not be enough to cure your hot fuel issue. I upgrade to ceramic headers at the same time I rerouted the fuel line so I never ran it this way with the HP manifolds.

I'd HIGHLY recommend ceramic coating your manifolds, or buying headers already done. I spent alot of time recently chasing heat issues in the engine bay, and I found the bare factory manifolds to be a huge source of it. Or at the minimum, reinstall the OE heat shields over the top of the manifolds.

[igozumn]

I have a new set of ceramic coated Hooker Super Comps that have been sitting in the box for about 17 years.   

[303 Mopar]

I also routed the fuel line up the firewall, added a Cool Carb spacer, a electric fuel pump, and a return line.  All of that has helped with vapor lock issues.

[WHITE AND RED 69]

You guys don't wrap the lines with some sort of heat shield? My lines are ran similar to JR's and I've got heat shielding from the torsion bar cross member to the throttle body and also some near the the exhaust over the rear axle.   

[JR]

I'm definitely adding heat shields White and Red, I just haven't gotten to it yet.

What type did you use? I was thinking about making an aluminum plate to cover them in the rear of the car by the exhaust.

[WHITE AND RED 69]

I've got DEI Fire shield covers on all the sections of braided line and has been working great. I also built a little shield for the fuel filter since it sits near the header collector. Its just made out of sheet metal and I lined the inside with dynamat to block some of the heat.

[68CoronetRT]

Sniper Install Update.

Took my time and was able to wire most of the kit in 1 night. Then got busy and had to wait 3 days to finish it. Anyway, other than me not plugging in 1 weather pack which controlled the timing, the car fired right up with full timing control after 4 revolutions. Got up to temp and target AFR is being hit no problem.

The sound on the exhaust is so much more "crisp". I'm guessing due to the fact that the timing is firing exactly where it should be. The throttle linkage is almost too light even with double return springs. The Fitech was like you had to mash the pedal with some body weight to get it to go 100%, and even then the throttle was very jerky. This throttle is so smooth.

I ended up doing the relay for my switched power which worked great! It's seeing whatever the battery see's during cranking so I get no issues with start up. I also ended up with the Holley Dual Sync dist, which I had to grind the Stealth heads a little to make work. It's super tight but so far no misfires due to wires grounding out.

I LOVE the fact that you can set Coolant temps to adjust the rpm idle for warm up. Once they come out with the laptop dongle that will be cool to hook up a laptop and do all of that in real time. The touch screen is kinda hard to make adjustments when it comes to the graphs.

Going for the first drive probably tomorrow after work. I need to tidy up the wiring and zip tie off the o2 and move the fuel pressure regulator etc...

[darbgnik]

Sniper Install Update.

Took my time and was able to wire most of the kit in 1 night. Then got busy and had to wait 3 days to finish it. Anyway, other than me not plugging in 1 weather pack which controlled the timing, the car fired right up with full timing control after 4 revolutions. Got up to temp and target AFR is being hit no problem.

The sound on the exhaust is so much more "crisp". I'm guessing due to the fact that the timing is firing exactly where it should be. The throttle linkage is almost too light even with double return springs. The Fitech was like you had to mash the pedal with some body weight to get it to go 100%, and even then the throttle was very jerky. This throttle is so smooth.

I ended up doing the relay for my switched power which worked great! It's seeing whatever the battery see's during cranking so I get no issues with start up. I also ended up with the Holley Dual Sync dist, which I had to grind the Stealth heads a little to make work. It's super tight but so far no misfires due to wires grounding out.

I LOVE the fact that you can set Coolant temps to adjust the rpm idle for warm up. Once they come out with the laptop dongle that will be cool to hook up a laptop and do all of that in real time. The touch screen is kinda hard to make adjustments when it comes to the graphs.

Going for the first drive probably tomorrow after work. I need to tidy up the wiring and zip tie off the o2 and move the fuel pressure regulator etc...

Thanks for the update, think I'm leaning this way.

[68CoronetRT]

Happy to report the 1st cruise was great success! Did 2 laps "around the block" just for safe measure! haha And I may or may not have shown a Prius what BBM is all about.... 

Car runs more smoothly, throttle is way more snappy(and pedal feel is 100% better), fires right up at hot start(and cold start). I think the timing had alot to do with all this too. So far for 200$ cheaper I would go Holley in a heart beat! I did spend some coin on their dual sync dizzy but it is SO worth it.

Fitech has great PR but lacks in the tech department. They tried to get the product out before Holley, but in the end I have a feeling they will not be able to compete with a juggernaut like Holley. I mean the weather packs supplied by Holley are legit Delphi packs. Just holding Fitechs "weather" pack and Holleys Delphi's you can feel the difference in quality.

I cant wait for the laptop dongle to come out, do live tuning from a laptop!

[lukedukem]

If you don't mind, can you list what parts you bought to completely swap to efi. I'm trying to understand what all needs to be purchased to swap.

Luke

[68CoronetRT]

To go from a carb to EFI it depends on what route you want to go from the supply stand point. I'll list what I had to buy.

Tanks Inc. tank/walbro 255 fuel pump and their sending unit.
50 feet of hard line( I went aluminum). -6 or 3/8ths for feed and return
2 VW style fuel filters in line.
Stock fuel pump block off plate
Misc things like: heat sleeve, mounts for fuel line, screws, bolts, random wire, solder, heat shrink etc..
An fittings! I cant recall every single fitting but you have to make a "road map" from tank to TBI unit. It's a small fortune but so so worth it.
25 feet of soft hose (Used for junctions such as off the tank or TBI side)
Pay an exhaust shop to weld in an o2 bung.
I wired in a relay for switched power, but you may not have to do this.

That's about it I think, now if you want to do timing control I suggest the Holley Dual Sync dist. It's a hall effect sensor inside a dist housing. You can use an MSD pro billet as well, but if you've followed this thread I tried it and it never worked for me.

Your other option is to buy Fitech's "Fuel Command Center". This literally hooks up to your feed line and is a surge tank to feed the high pressure EFI system. No plumbing from the tank to the engine bay, just re route 2 fuel lines and it uses your stock fuel pump for supply. Personally I've seen 2 of these systems be DOA and Ive read ALOT about problems with the way the vent is designed causing complete vapor lock.

So you can do it the kinda "unbolt the carb, switch two lines, hook up 8 wires" and be on your way. OR you can do it the proper way and re do the fuel system with a legit return system. Keeps the fuel cooler too.

After everything I've done and gone through I'd buy the Holley Sniper kit and if you want to keep your stock fuel system, then just buy Fitechs "FCC". And if you want to do timing control, then spend the money on the Dual Sync dist.

This swap is literally a Saturday project if you have all the stuff to wire/mount/adapt on hand.

[68CoronetRT]

Oh and Holley ALSO sells a complete swap kit for an extra 300$. That's literally everything you need to go from carb to EFI.

They call it the "master install" kit.


Page 4
http://documents.holley.com/199r11031r.pdf

[lukedukem]

Thanks for taking the time to post all this. I've been reading about so many swaps but I was unclear as to what all needs to be purchased for the swap.

Luke

[68killerbee]

Older thread but a couple guys could really help me out on my install. I've had the unit for a year and just got the tanksinc tank a month or two ago.  But i'm still dragging my feet after hearing all the issues since last summer.  here's what I have:
1968 Super Bee
470" stroker 4 speed
Fitech Meanstreet EFI
Tanksinc tank and suggested fuel pump.  Had the FCC but didn't want to hack up engine bay to make it fit.
Stockish style electronic ignition.  Rev-n-nator, regular FireCore distributor
Fuel regulator (so I can keep back up carb in trunk if the EFI craps out and I can adjust fuel pressure)

I have to install the tank, fuel regulator, return line, and the whole Fitech set up still.
Questions/concerns.
1) Using Fitech as fuel only.  Do I need to shield some of the wiring?  Which ones?
2) Will my ignition set up work with the fitech do I need to change stuff?  I'm thinking I need to buy the RTR Firecore distributor. But how can I have a rev limited if I wouldn't need the Rev-n-nator box. Will I be able to shield the wires (which ones?) and distributor just to try it out before I purchase a new set up?
If I should get rid of my ignition set up, should I go with this: http://paceperformance.com/i-23840633-tsp-jm7719bk-mopar-bb-b-engine-383-400-cid-ready-to-run-pro-series-electronic-distributor-black-cap.html
3)Will I need to mess with ignition getting full power when cranking over? Read a few things about system not getting full power at all times.  

Thanks, I'm honestly debating to just sell the set up to avoid any possible headache.  I took the car out tonight and it ran just fine with the carb, so I think I'm almost crazy to try something else with some many questions around it.  I'm pretty good with modifying stuff, I swapped, motor trans and rearend by myself and have done a lot of things to my cars over the years. But this one just has me scared.  I don't want to be stuck with a car that won't be as reliable as it is right now.

[68CoronetRT]

Fuel only will be the easiest and simplest way to get it up and running. I had alot of problems with timing control but that was an ECU problem. Car ran great on fuel only for over a year.

1. I never shielded any wires.
2. You can leave your ignition 100% alone, it'll work fine.
3. Cranking power needs to be 10.2v minimum. My Fitech fired up every time with the brown/blue wires tied together that used to go to the ballast resistor. That is a crank and running power source once they are tied into each other. Later, I added a relay for direct battery voltage(fused). Just to take the load off the old wiring.

I'd also suggest running the fuel pump on a relay for 100% voltage at all times. In tank pumps do not like voltage change. If you look into the Holley Sniper kit, they say in the instructions that having voltage change to "slow the pump down" is not good and is not even an option in their kit. Fitech uses that feature to help tune other problems out.

I would absolutely do a feed/return system. Helps keep the fuel cooler. The Fitech has a built in regulator that is ment for high pressure. Your carb style regulator will not be able to hold back enough pressure in the event you had to use your new in tank high pressure pump AND your old carb setup. They go hand in hand.

Hope this info helps!