Looking to pickup a 1971 Charger Superbee

[polywideblock]

have you tried the 3rd gen charger  forum  http://wichargerguy.proboards.com/board/13/71-74-charger-talk     

[velrob]

Hmm.

Tried to ask if someone has the part or if challenger will fit the charger rails?

[Daytona R/T SE]

can anyone tell me if the challenger front frame rail would work on a charger?  same year

Yes they will.

[polywideblock]

                                                   well now I've learnt something new to  

                         not wanting to hijack thread but  do any other e body parts interchange with 3rd gen b body

[polywideblock]

any updates   

[velrob]

still working on it

some pictures attached

went to niagara falls, ny to pickup my stuff.     still need more

pictures attached of progress

seems my cluster has a crack on it.  Want to fill it/sand it.  Whats best way to paint on wood grain ?  is there any wood grain paint kit?

Also i was waiting for special on a welder.  Picking up a Lincoln 180 MIG tomorrow.      A friend told me its better to do gas welding than flux as its stronger?  is it true?

also he told me for the frame rails I can just cut off the bottom portion and leave the lip on the trunk floor and just seat the new one on top of the old lip (of course i would sand down the old lip to remove rust) ? is it ok this way?

[Pete in NH]

Hi,

On replacing the rear frame rails, I would completely remove the old rail lip and all. Leaving part of the old lip in place I would think is going to allow whatever rust under there to remain and the attachment of the new rail to the old lip will only be as strong as the old rail attachment. I would use a spot weld cutter to remove the welds and completely remove the old rail section. Media blast the trunk floor under  the rail and epoxy prime. Also, media blast the replacement rail section and epoxy prime inside and out. Fit the rail in place and clean off the epoxy primer from the areas that the new plug welds to attach the rail will be in and weld in the rail. Then re-epoxy prime everything.

For frame work a flux welder will work. It will splatter a bit and the welds will not be as clean as a gas MIG weld. For sheet metal work and body panels you will really want a gas MIG set up so you might as well just get one up front even for the frame work.

Post some photos of what you are dealing with so people can give you some guidance.

[Trulyvintage]

If you need parts - try calling Rich

His number is 815-520-3227

He is in Machesney Park, IL 61115

I just picked up this 1971 R/T Charger 440 from him on Tuesday.


Jim

[velrob]

Thanks alot I will keep his number on file as i definitely will need some other things.

car looks great nice find

Can anyone let me know how this chrome trim is removed ?

http://my.jetscreenshot.com/demo/20151212-o95t-136kb

I cant for life of me figure out how to remove it.   

[velrob]

Hi,

On replacing the rear frame rails, I would completely remove the old rail lip and all. Leaving part of the old lip in place I would think is going to allow whatever rust under there to remain and the attachment of the new rail to the old lip will only be as strong as the old rail attachment. I would use a spot weld cutter to remove the welds and completely remove the old rail section. Media blast the trunk floor under  the rail and epoxy prime. Also, media blast the replacement rail section and epoxy prime inside and out. Fit the rail in place and clean off the epoxy primer from the areas that the new plug welds to attach the rail will be in and weld in the rail. Then re-epoxy prime everything.

For frame work a flux welder will work. It will splatter a bit and the welds will not be as clean as a gas MIG weld. For sheet metal work and body panels you will really want a gas MIG set up so you might as well just get one up front even for the frame work.

Post some photos of what you are dealing with so people can give you some guidance.

Hey Pete.

The trunk floor needs to be replaced as well and we aren't replacing the entire rear frame rail as I picked up part of the rear frame rails.  I beleive they run up to the center of the cross member or just before that.    He mentioned to leave the lip there to allow us to line it up easier.  Plus I would have access to the top and bottom of the old lip as I would attach the new frame rail first then rip out the old trunk floors and put in the new trunk floors. So I can grind down the bottom and to portions of the lip to remove the rust and same time spray some rust converter.   I think i can cut out the old lip once the trunk floor is removed and then fasten the trunk floor to the new rail lip.  Use the old lip merely for lining up.  What do you think?

I will take pictures as we begin cutting.  Im just building some castors now so i can remove the axle and k frame etc.

I took as many pictures as possible to try to remember how everything goes back together but im sure ill have alot of  so hopefully some people can shed light when stuck specially behind the dash and wiring.

[Dino]

I really wouldn't section the rails like that.  It's much better to use the complete part with the lip instead of using only a part.  It's real easy to lne up the new section and weld it in place, don't worry about that part.

[polywideblock]

Thanks alot I will keep his number on file as i definitely will need some other things.

car looks great nice find

Can anyone let me know how this chrome trim is removed ?

http://my.jetscreenshot.com/demo/20151212-o95t-136kb

I cant for life of me figure out how to remove it.   

its called "drip rail moulding" and I think it is just "carefully " prised off the drip rail      

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk0O46HFxpg

[velrob]

Hey Dino.

its how the rails were sold partial rails.  theyre slip on they slip into the other rail after i cut off the portion i will be replacing.  here is the rail i bought: http://www.autobodyspecialt.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=MP-2755-LH

Thanks for the drip rail video.  ill need to buy a can opened and give that a try! looks easy.

[Dino]

Slipping the rail into the existing rail is fine, but I wouldn't cut the lip off.  I'd remove the old rail lip included.

[Pete in NH]

Rob,

Keep in mind that restoration body work is not quite like collision repair which tends to be quick and dirty in its repair techniques. So, be a little cautious in listening to someone who may be a collision body guy.

I'll let Dino Chime in here  and comment, but I would approach your project by using a spot weld cutter to remove the spot welds from the trunk floor to the old frame rails. Then cut out the old trunk floor using the new floor as a guide as to were to cut and fit the new floor. With the trunk opened up you will have easy access to things involving the frame rails. Then install your new rails making up jigs and templates as required to get the rails in position. Do one rail at a time. You would then install your new floor section. plug welding the floor to the rail lips as required. The idea is to install everything in as close a manner to the car's original construction techniques.

I'm not a big fan of "rust converters" many times they actually seal in moisture against the metal your are trying to protect and cause more rapid rusting and destruction of the metal. One little imperfection in the coating and the moisture can get in. Since you have all new, clean metal epoxy primer is the way to go. Epoxy primer is the only primer that is truly waterproof.

[velrob]

Alright i will spray the new rails with epoxy and do the rails first with first removing the trunk floor

I guess i will use measurements to line up the rails

[velrob]

What do you recommend for spraying inside the cowl?   Theres surface rust and wondering what I should use to prevent further rust?  Some parts are rusted out so i need to do some metal work.

[polywideblock]

what parts of the cowl are rusted , the whole top of the cowl can be removed as in post # 72  for rust repair and then put back on after 

[velrob]

Hmmm thats a good idea doesnt look to hard to remove cowl with everything off

i guess itll be easier for the metal patch work also

picture attached

We are trying to sand down as much as possible removing all 3 previous layers of paint + rust/surface rust.

We are spraying with Rust Converter to prevent further rusting before we prime/sand again, thats why some of the metal looks black.         Its all we have on hand at moment.   Can the epoxy primer go directly on bare metal?   Would we prime after applying epoxy primer?

For the underbody what would you recommend like frame rails, wheel wells, floor etc?

[72Charger-SE]

Welcome to the site!

As far as the rust repair goes, from my experience it is what you can NOT see that gets you.  Have you considered 'soda blasting' the car?  I would recommend it so you get 'all areas' exposed and can do the right and necessary repairs to make your car fun and SAFE to drive.  This is just my opinion after having had my car soda blasted.  NOTE: You may want to have some 'kleenex' handy however as the bad tends to get revealed.

GOD Bless!

[velrob]

Welcome to the site!

As far as the rust repair goes, from my experience it is what you can NOT see that gets you.  Have you considered 'soda blasting' the car?  I would recommend it so you get 'all areas' exposed and can do the right and necessary repairs to make your car fun and SAFE to drive.  This is just my opinion after having had my car soda blasted.  NOTE: You may want to have some 'kleenex' handy however as the bad tends to get revealed.

GOD Bless!

Thanks alot ))

I have an abrasive blaster i picked up last month.  10 gallon.  just trying to get it working properly as I beleive the media im using is to large.

picked up a welder last week and just ordered a plasma cutter.   I plan to use it as final application in removing rust and rust pits etc.

I have everything dismantled already and can see whats rusted.   As far as Im aware the only place I cant see is behind the quarter panels.  I need replace both wheel wells on passenger side and outer wheel house on driver side, both rockers, driver side floor, rear rails, front right rail, both inner fenders, patch work on firewall and cowl, trunk floor and hopefully thats about it

my wife hates the car already as i am almost working on it nightly.   I plan to do another car when this is done if its turns out well.

i have friends working on it with me as I've never really done welding so im learning as I go.

When im doing trunk floors should I be building any supports?    And for rear rails I understand I need to support that side on the rear if im doing left side or right side first (support it vertical that is) but do I need to support it anywhere else like horizontally or anything?

[Pete in NH]

Hmmm thats a good idea doesnt look to hard to remove cowl with everything off

i guess itll be easier for the metal patch work also

picture attached

We are trying to sand down as much as possible removing all 3 previous layers of paint + rust/surface rust.

We are spraying with Rust Converter to prevent further rusting before we prime/sand again, thats why some of the metal looks black.         Its all we have on hand at moment.   Can the epoxy primer go directly on bare metal?   Would we prime after applying epoxy primer?

For the underbody what would you recommend like frame rails, wheel wells, floor etc?

Media blasting will get the metal really clean if done right. It will provide an excellent surface for the epoxy primer. Epoxy primer should go over clean, bare metal. Follow the surface preparation instructions for the brand of epoxy primer you are using as they are all slightly different. I've been using Southern Polyurethane (SPI) primer and I really like it. It is a little less expensive than PPG and is excellent primer. The best part is the company is very easy to deal with and great tech. support is available 7 days a week. They have a very detailed set of cleaning and surface prep. instructions for the surface before the epoxy is applied. Check out SPI, the products are all made for restoration work. You would prime the bare metal with epoxy and the SPI recommends applying any filler over the epoxy primer. Then reseal with epoxy primer and apply your 2K surfacer primer. SPI has a tech. document called the perfect paint job on their website. Take A look at it.

Please be careful with that rust converter stuff as you will be setting yourself up for problems in the future. I don't see any reason to use that stuff when there is good epoxy primer available.

[velrob]

Thanks for the reply Pete.

its taking quite a bit of time to sand down the car so what should we apply to the bare metal before sand blasting ?  Should we still apply the epoxy primer then sand blast etc?

Since our sand blaster is smaller its easier to sand as much as possible then sand blast quickly.   

The rust converter we are using turns into a paintable primer but we aren't going to paint over that of course.    Im only using the rust converter because otherwise the metal will be exposed for possibly for months while we still do metal work etc.

In meantime I will check out whats local as im in Canada.   Hopefully SPI is easy to get down here.

[Pete in NH]

Rob,

Give the guys at SPI a call about getting the stuff in Canada. They ship directly to US customers for free but I don't know about Canada.

You have a big project ahead of you and a good approach is to do one panel at a time. Sand it, blast it and then get it in epoxy primer. Once it's primed it's alright to leave it until the whole car is in primer. Another approach is to get a panel in epoxy primer, do all your metal work and filler work then seal with another coat of epoxy. If I were faced with your project it would be one panel at a time.

You will need a heated shop to do any kind of paint work this time of year. Epoxy primer is a two part system and SPI epoxy will not cure and harden below a panel temperature of 65 degrees. The panel must be kept above 65 for 24 hours, otherwise the primer will go dormant and never cure. If your panels are really rusty and you are concerned about micro- rust pitting you may want to use a conversion coating such as Ospho, talk to the SPI folks about that.

[velrob]

Hey Pete.

I've been doing some reading and it appears Rust Converter is ok and putting Epoxy Primer over it, as long the Epoxy contains no acid.   I looked over Ospho and it contains same ingredients as the rust converter we are using.   

WARNING: OSPHO contains phosphoric acid on their website which the rust converter uses same.  We are applying the rust converter due to rust pitting.   

i've already contacted SPI inquiring and asking them the same question regarding applying their Epoxy over rust converter or similar.

I've also read great reviews on SPI so I will be going that route.  How many gallons of epoxy do you think I will need?  My garage is heated.