Thoughts about oiling...

[myk]

I've owned this car for 20 years and I've had the same oil pump and pump shaft in it for the whole time.  Now that the car is running better, stronger, harder, I'd like to make sure my oiling stuff is good to go. 

I was considering a high volume pump, possibly a Melling, and noticed that I should replace the oil pump shaft with a hardened one also.  Isn't the pump shaft just a matter of pulling the old shaft out and dropping in a new one?  I've been reading online about people having issues with clocking the shaft, distributor, getting the shaft to seat properly, the shaft bushing, etc.  Also, as I try to imagine replacing the shaft, how does one actually reach into the block to pull and replace the pump shaft?  I've got small hands, though not that small, or is it not as far down as I'm thinking the shaft is?  What if I dropped the shaft into the block lol.

In any case, recommendations on a pump, shaft and replacing said parts would be appreciated.  I know I need different bolts for the high volume pump but that's all I know.  Should I even bother with a high volume pump?  Thanks in advance...

[justcruisin]

The stock pump and intermediate shaft work fine in most applications. If you are pulling higher revs and intend on adding a HV pump you may want to consider a 6 quart or larger sump if you don't have one. I would also use a hardened and pined shaft. I think there is only one choice in manufacture with the stock or HV pump. The HV pump does put more load on your timing gears also - pays to keep a check on ignition timing.

To pull the shaft just put a flat blade screwdriver in the slot where the distributor fits - wind it out of mesh with the cam and then grab it with some long nose pliers. To reinstall you may need to rotate the pump with a priming rod so the shaft goes all the way home. Only problem you will have reinstalling the distributor is if the intermediate shaft hasn't located into the pump.

If you do replace the shaft, check that there is sufficient length for the distributor to bolt down properly. I fitted a 440 source shaft and found my MSD pro billet did not go all the way home, I needed to fit a .030" washer between the distributor and the block.

If the bush hasn't been done for 20 years, chances are it will need to be replaced.

[myk]

Thanks for the fast reply.  I understand what you're saying about winding the shaft out, I'll just have to look at the motor in person.  I'm still debating about installing a high volume pump.  I don't think I would need a bigger oil pan but I would want to install it anyway.  If it's too much commotion to get the high volume pump I'll just stick with the standard flow.  What brand are you recommending for the pump?  As for the pan, I keep reading about a "Hemi" pan but what specific brand, model and capacity of pan should I be looking for?  Does anyone know if headers might prove a clearance issue?

As for installing the pump, I've read here that it's a basic bolt-on procedure, but doesn't the pump have to line up properly with the shaft in the block?  How will I know they've mated properly?  I'm assuming I won't be able to get the pump back on if they don't mate correctly.

Is the shaft bushing an engine-out-of-the car procedure?  I've read a lot of threads about people having difficulty with that as well.

[BSB67]

I'll take your old pump.

[myk]

Yeah I've read that you take those pumps in.  Why is that? 

[John_Kunkel]

If your current oil pressure is satisfactory throughout the rpm range there's no reason to change to a HV pump. The HP shaft is always a good idea, it's not about hardness (they're all the same) but it is about the profile at the hex end of the shaft.

The bushing isn't usually a high wear item (small diameter shaft, reduced rpm). Replacing it in situ requires dedicated tools so, unless it's obviously no good, leave it alone.

[firefighter3931]

Myk,

If the oil pressure is good I'd leave it alone for now. HV pumps work good on hot street/strip builds with looser bearing clearances but for mild street builds the std pump is usually fine. The one thing that you could do is increase the capacity by installing the street hemi oilpan/pickup along with a windage tray. The Hemi pan fits fine in the 2nd gen chassis and increases the capacity by two quarts. 

Mancini carries the pan/pickup package at a reasonable price. The street hemi reproduction pan has very good baffling for oil control under spirited driving conditions. 

http://www.manciniracing.com/ststheoilpa61.html


**If you order this package make sure to specify the 3/8 pickup tube.....unless your block was modified for the 1/2in hemi sized tube.


Ron

[BSB67]

Yeah I've read that you take those pumps in.  Why is that?  

They are usually perfectly fine for any street application as is.  There is some rotor wear, but is inconsequential for just about any application.  Everything else about the oil pump is better than the new Melling.  The pumps are very over designed.  I would say that if anyone has an oil pressure problem with an original pump, it is because the rod or main bearings are tore up, or some other internal leakage/issue.

[68CoronetRT]

My original motor was built and the intermediate shaft broke causing the bottom end to spin a bearing. My new engine build has the hardened shaft.

The hardest part about installing the intermediate shaft if getting the clocked position correct. I would suggest spinning the motor so the flat surface(Where dist inserts) is either up and down or perfectly side to side. That way it's easy to tell if your off one tooth.

Also when doing the oil pump itself, just remove the 4-5 bolts. There will be a couple lengths so write down or remember which goes where. Then what I did was leave the dist/intermediate shaft in and when you push the pump into place you can insert the hex and twist the pump so the shaft never moves from correct position, add your silicone or gasket and bolt it up.

Your local enough, hit me up if you want to do this and I'll help you out!

Also my Mellings unit leaked BRAND NEW from the box. Ended up being a little o ring that was inside the pump. Its a few bolts and it comes apart in two pieces, I'd suggest taking it apart and inspecting the o rings for tears before installing the new pump.

[myk]

Thanks for all the feedback guys.  At the moment oil pressure is good, but I figure if something breaks it'll only take a few seconds of oil starvation to take the car off of the streets.  I've had the oil system on there since I bought the car so I was just trying to take the initiative on it.  

They are usually perfectly fine for any street application as is.  There is some rotor wear, but is inconsequential for just about any application.  Everything else about the oil pump is better than the new Melling.  The pumps are very over designed.  I would say that if anyone has an oil pressure problem with an original pump, it is because the rod or main bearings are tore up, or some other internal leakage/issue.

Since newer pumps seem to be not as worthy as the originals, where do I go about buying a pump?  What brand?

*'68, I appreciate your specific instructions.  I will be sure to follow them if I decide to replace the pump and shaft.

*Ron, I will look into the Mancini package.  I certainly hope the pickup tube is 3/8 and not the other.  Should the pickup be modified to take the 1/2" pickup? 

[justcruisin]

Myk, as stated in my previous post - as far as I know there is only one choice of manufacture for stock type oil pumps, be they standard or HV. They may be sold by others and boxed accordingly but unless things have changed the only manufacturer is Melling. Unless you go for a race type pump with external lines or find a new Chrysler pump.

[myk]

Oh ok, that's what you meant.  Thanks for the clarification...

[firefighter3931]

Ron, I will look into the Mancini package.  I certainly hope the pickup tube is 3/8 and not the other.  Should the pickup be modified to take the 1/2" pickup?
 

Myk,

Some guys will request the 1/2 in pickup modification during rebuild depending on the intended use of the motor. Most builds don't need the hemi tube mod but if it's going to be a hot street/strip type build that routinely sees 7000rpm....it's not a bad idea. This upgrade is usually done in conjunction with a HV pump and larger capacity oilpan.

I really like the hemi pan ; larger capacity, excellent baffling for oil control and zero ground clearance issues to worry about. The hemi pan sits flush with the bottom of the K-frame 


Ron

[myk]

Ron, I will look into the Mancini package.  I certainly hope the pickup tube is 3/8 and not the other.  Should the pickup be modified to take the 1/2" pickup?
 

Myk,

Some guys will request the 1/2 in pickup modification during rebuild depending on the intended use of the motor. Most builds don't need the hemi tube mod but if it's going to be a hot street/strip type build that routinely sees 7000rpm....it's not a bad idea. This upgrade is usually done in conjunction with a HV pump and larger capacity oilpan.

I really like the hemi pan ; larger capacity, excellent baffling for oil control and zero ground clearance issues to worry about. The hemi pan sits flush with the bottom of the K-frame  


Ron

That's good to hear.  I haven't had a chance to look under the car yet, but my concern is clearance from the center link, headers and whatever else is lurking under there.  BUT, if the Hemi pan is an OEM styled part then it should fit perfectly, I think.  But wait...if more capacity is better, shouldn't I look into Mancini's 8 quart pan finished in zinc!   

[69wannabe]

The 8 quart pan's stick down way below the K frame and will give you minimal ground clearance and doesn't look good to me either. The hemi pan Ron suggested will increase your oil capacity without any ground clearance issues and will be a basic bolt on and go project. I swapped one out for my buddy from a regular pan to the hemi pan and pick up tube with a new windage tray one saturday morning and was driving it to town by lunch time. Took me about 3 to four hours to do the whole job. You will need 2 oil pan gaskets if you use a windage tray. If you purchase a new windage tray it comes with 2 gaskets I think, been awhile since I have bought one.

[Kern Dog]

Clearance?
This is what mine looks like with a 6 quart HEMI pan. I did add that little skidplate to the K member though.

[Kern Dog]

X

[A383Wing]

do you plan on opening up all the oil passages inside the engine when you install a HV pump??

NO??

Then either leave the pump you have on there alone or just put a stock new pump on...the HV pump on a stock motor is waste of money...my opinion

[Kern Dog]

C

[myk]

The 8 quart pan's stick down way below the K frame and will give you minimal ground clearance and doesn't look good to me either. The hemi pan Ron suggested will increase your oil capacity without any ground clearance issues and will be a basic bolt on and go project. I swapped one out for my buddy from a regular pan to the hemi pan and pick up tube with a new windage tray one saturday morning and was driving it to town by lunch time. Took me about 3 to four hours to do the whole job. You will need 2 oil pan gaskets if you use a windage tray. If you purchase a new windage tray it comes with 2 gaskets I think, been awhile since I have bought one.

Thanks to Kern I can see that with the Hemi pan I should have no clearance issues, although I hear swapping the pickup is a PITA.  I'll also have to buy a tool to knock out my center link. 

As for the oil pump, I guess the HV is excessive, but I figure so is the rest of the car...

[fy469rtse]

Myk, the old saying is
If it ain't broke don't fix it ,
After you get center steering linkages off
You can get the pan off in the car
Take lower inspection cover off the trans , the cover over the opening , this gives you just enough room to sneak pan back that touch more,
Stock pan is ok in yours, even better if you have a 440 or later pan with the splash trays in them , stops the oil sloshing to the back of pan on hard accelerations

[heyoldguy]

I've never had a problem with the HV pump suckng the stock 4qt oil pan dry even at 7,000 rpm. Just me I guess.

[BSB67]

I've never had a problem with the HV pump suckng the stock 4qt oil pan dry even at 7,000 rpm. Just me I guess.

A HV pump does not move one more drop of oil from the oil pan than a standard volume pump, at the same psi in the same motor at the same rpm.

Said differently, A HV pump with 70 psi at 7000 rpm is not pumping any more oil from the oil plan/to the motor, than a standard volume pump at 70 psi 7000 rpm in the same motor.

It is possible to pump an oil pan dry, but likely, it would not be because it has a HV pump

[myk]

I beleive that statement, although I don't understand it. 

At this point I think I'm going to leave the pump and shaft alone.  My PSI is at a rock solid 48-55 during start up, idle, all the way to 3K RPM.  I'm more concerned with capacity at this point, so the Hemi pan is what I'm about to buy and install...

[68charger440]

I've never had a problem with the HV pump suckng the stock 4qt oil pan dry even at 7,000 rpm. Just me I guess.

A HV pump does not move one more drop of oil from the oil pan than a standard volume pump, at the same psi in the same motor at the same rpm.

Said differently, A HV pump with 70 psi at 7000 rpm is not pumping any more oil from the oil plan/to the motor, than a standard volume pump at 70 psi 7000 rpm in the same motor.

It is possible to pump an oil pan dry, but likely, it would not be because it has a HV pump

Can you explain it a little more...  I can be a little thick sometimes.  What does the HV pump do differently or is it just a marketing thing?  Wouldn't a HV pump put out more volume and show up as higher pressure at the same rpm?

[green69rt]

I've never had a problem with the HV pump suckng the stock 4qt oil pan dry even at 7,000 rpm. Just me I guess.

A HV pump does not move one more drop of oil from the oil pan than a standard volume pump, at the same psi in the same motor at the same rpm.

Said differently, A HV pump with 70 psi at 7000 rpm is not pumping any more oil from the oil plan/to the motor, than a standard volume pump at 70 psi 7000 rpm in the same motor.

It is possible to pump an oil pan dry, but likely, it would not be because it has a HV pump

Can you explain it a little more...  I can be a little thick sometimes.  What does the HV pump do differently or is it just a marketing thing.

Let me take a shot from an engineering point of view.   An oil, positive displacement pump (like the pumps in our cars) will pump a certain "mass" of oil, at a given rpm, no matter what the pressure is.  If the "mass" can't make it thru the bearings ,etc. then it will lift the relief valve and send the excess back to the sump (edit, back to the pump suction.)  So the question is "will it go thru the bearings, etc?"  Maybe a small amount, the viscosity, clearance of the bearings and how "smooth" things flow have more influence than the pressure.  So why do it?   (check me out here guys..)  On high revving engines it takes more pressure to push the oil thru the crank and out to the rod bearings and the piston wrist pins because the of the mechanics (someone else explain, big lesson in mechanical,fluid dynamics.)  So, if you don't have a high revving engine and you are not putting a big load on your bearings, a HP/HV pump doesn't get you much except that you need to make sure your pump drive shaft is up to the job, because it will pump more oil thru the pump, but the extra will just cause the relief to flow more to the suction, almost no more will go to the engine.

Did I get it right??

[ws23rt]

  ^^ That's a pretty good explanation.   An addition I'd like to make is the extra effort the hv pump feels (that is not needed) costs fuel/hp and generates extra heat in the oil.

[68charger440]

So are you saying the HV pump is capable of more volume, but the restrictions within tbe engine prevent it from doing so except for extreme conditions?  I guess I should have paid more attention in physics class!  My head hurts.

[A383Wing]

you cannot compress a liquid.....stock pump and HV pump will push the exact same amount of oil through engine....the only difference is that if you open up all the oiling passages inside the engine to accommodate the HV's pump of pushing more oil

[green69rt]

you cannot compress a liquid.....stock pump and HV pump will push the exact same amount of oil through engine....the only difference is that if you open up all the oiling passages inside the engine to accommodate the HV's pump of pushing more oil

Yes, I think that's right.  If you take a existing engine and add a HP/HV pump to it you don't get much benefit.  You have to go thru the complete engine and change the various oil passages.  One of the main ones is the rod to crankshaft side clearance (edit, BSB67 corrected me, side clearance not so important as I thought.)

[68charger440]

you cannot compress a liquid.....stock pump and HV pump will push the exact same amount of oil through engine....the only difference is that if you open up all the oiling passages inside the engine to accommodate the HV's pump of pushing more oil

Now I'm confused again...In the first half of the sentence you say both "will push the exact same amount of oil" , then in the second you talk about "accomodating the HV's pushing more oil".  I'm not trying to be difficult, but is the HV pushing the same or more?  or are you confirming the statement below that I made back a couple of posts ago...
The HV pump is capable of more volume, but the restrictions within tbe engine prevent it from doing so except for extreme conditions?
Sorry to be so thick headed.

[BSB67]

Okay, some of the items stated are correct, but some not.

Go back and read my words very carefully, along with what I'm about to state.

The HV pump will pump more oil at the same pressure, BUT at 70 psi the relief valve is simply open more and recirculating the oil back to the to THE SUCTION OF THE PUMP (not back to the pan).  What will probably happen in the real world is if everything is equal, the standard pump will be at 70 psi, and the HV will probably be at 75 psi in the example that I gave earlier. 

I personally have never observed an application where the standard pump could not provide enough pressure ( i.e. volume) once the engine was off idle. Im sure that the condition could exist, but it would not be anything even near the realm of a stock-ish engine as we are discussing here.

The only time I have observed a possible need for a HV pump is in a very large bearing clearance motor, with full time valve gear oiling, and full groove bearings.  And even then, the only time there is a issue is at idle.  The long rotor pump (HV) pump will provide more volume and increase the idle oil pressure under this condition at idle.

The rod side clearance has something between little to nothing to do with oil pressure.

To the OP,  buying a new pan and pickup will be as big of a waste of $ as buying a HV oil pump for your application, IMO.

[A383Wing]

you cannot compress a liquid.....stock pump and HV pump will push the exact same amount of oil through engine....the only difference is that if you open up all the oiling passages inside the engine to accommodate the HV's pump of pushing more oil

Now I'm confused again...In the first half of the sentence you say both "will push the exact same amount of oil" , then in the second you talk about "accomodating the HV's pushing more oil".  I'm not trying to be difficult, but is the HV pushing the same or more?  or are you confirming the statement below that I made back a couple of posts ago...
The HV pump is capable of more volume, but the restrictions within tbe engine prevent it from doing so except for extreme conditions?
Sorry to be so thick headed.

both pumps will push the same amount of oil through an engine that has not been modified to take advantage of the HV pump moving more fluid, ie, opening up all the oil passages inside the engine to take the extra added oil from the HV pump...if you put the HV pump on a stock engine, you will not see any extra oil flow to any portion of the engine because the internal passages are still the stock size that the stock pump is more than capable of handling. It's like putting a 3/4" water hose on the end of a straw and seeing how much water comes through, it would be the same with a 1/2'" hose as well

And yes to the other post, putting a deep sump pan and pick-up on your engine is waste of $$ also...nothing gained but more money used to do an oil change...you have done nothing to the innards of the engine to warrant the big pan or extra oil. The only thing of concern is less ground clearance at the deep pan so you can poke a hole in the bottom and let all that oil out on the ground

[justcruisin]

It's about the restriction that is imposed on the pump, if the bearings have more clearance, more oil will flow. To maintain a certain pressure more volume is required for the larger clearance as opposed to a smaller clearance.

You can compare it to water - a fire pump is supplying water to a hose with a 1" nozzle and it must maintain 100 psi pressure at the nozzle to be effective. The nozzle is changed to 1 1/2" - the pump must supply more water to maintain the 100 psi.

An HV oil pump will maintain the pressure as bearing clearance is increased. At what point the standard pump will start to drop off

[myk]

IF I do buy a pan it'll be the stock replacement Hemi pan which is flush with the K frame.  I only want to have the extra capacity since I'm throwing the car around the roads a little harder than normal.  If you guys say I don't need to worry about the oil even during spirited driving then fine-that's more money for other 'mods like the Borgeson box that I want...

[68charger440]

Myk, sorry I turned your thread into a class on oil pumps and pressures.  I was just a bit confused like you and I never could take an answer that i didn't fully understand.  I think it works like I thought, it is just some explanations made it through my thick head while others didn't.

[chargd72]

An HV oil pump will maintain the pressure as bearing clearance is increased. At what point the standard pump will start to drop off

This it the million dollar question.  I've been following this thread daily as I'm doing oiling mods to my 360 block as we speak.  I've opened up almost all chambers from the pickup to the mains and round off all corners.  I also opened up my stock pump passages and cleaned up all sharp corners internal to the pump.  Will my stock pump hold up to the job?  Or is this the time an HV pump is NEEDED?

[Brass]

Anecdotally, I got the 7 qt. hemi pan and the HV pump because I had a small 4 qt. pan and wanted more pressure.  I drive my car a lot and I was not confident the oiling was sufficient because the (new, American made) lifters would complain after hours of running on the highway or after a few dyno pulls.  Now it holds 10 psi more than it did before at cruise, and there's no lifter noise whatsoever.  The stock pump was probably just fine but I suspect the small pan did not provide enough volume to circulate.  I'm happy with the upgrade.

[68charger440]

Yeah, I wouldn't worry about punching a hole in the oil pan because it sits a bit lower.  We're not the Duke boys anymore, although I did do some crazy stuff with mine back in the mid 70's   Now they are worth too much to get too crazy with them.

[justcruisin]

This it the million dollar question.  I've been following this thread daily as I'm doing oiling mods to my 360 block as we speak.  I've opened up almost all chambers from the pickup to the mains and round off all corners.  I also opened up my stock pump passages and cleaned up all sharp corners internal to the pump.  Will my stock pump hold up to the job?  Or is this the time an HV pump is NEEDED?



While opening up galleries and radiusing bends can be a good thing it is not the governing factor, the pressure and flow is relative to the smallest restriction, (with the relief valve setting the max) By cleaning the galleries etc you are increasing the flow potential by minimising friction loss - a bigger hose has less friction loss for a given flow than a smaller hose.

I am by no means an expert but my thoughts and experience is if your bearing clearances are around stock the standard pump will be OK.

[John_Kunkel]

The HV pump will pump more oil at the same pressure, BUT at 70 psi the relief valve is simply open more and recirculating the oil back to the to THE SUCTION OF THE PUMP (not back to the pan). 

And therein lies a problem; if you look at the size of the opening(s) in the relief valve you'll notice they aren't all that large. So, even with the relief valve wide open, there will be instances where the openings are too small to handle the excess volume and, with nowhere else to go, the pressure will build beyond what's practical.

[myk]

Myk, sorry I turned your thread into a class on oil pumps and pressures.  I was just a bit confused like you and I never could take an answer that i didn't fully understand.  I think it works like I thought, it is just some explanations made it through my thick head while others didn't.

Not at all man.  I don't know what happened to me and this car over the years but I have a phobia about....under-oiling.  I stare at my oil pressure gauge more than anything else when I'm driving lol.  Oil is life!   So anything I can learn about the subject is beneficial to me.  

Anecdotally, I got the 7 qt. hemi pan and the HV pump because I had a small 4 qt. pan and wanted more pressure.  I drive my car a lot and I was not confident the oiling was sufficient because the (new, American made) lifters would complain after hours of running on the highway or after a few dyno pulls.  Now it holds 10 psi more than it did before at cruise, and there's no lifter noise whatsoever.  The stock pump was probably just fine but I suspect the small pan did not provide enough volume to circulate.  I'm happy with the upgrade.

Theres a 7qt Hemi pan? 

[Brass]

I think it is the same one Ron linked to.  It holds 6 + 1 when using the large Wix filter.

[green69rt]

The HV pump will pump more oil at the same pressure, BUT at 70 psi the relief valve is simply open more and recirculating the oil back to the to THE SUCTION OF THE PUMP (not back to the pan).

And therein lies a problem; if you look at the size of the opening(s) in the relief valve you'll notice they aren't all that large. So, even with the relief valve wide open, there will be instances where the openings are too small to handle the excess volume and, with nowhere else to go, the pressure will build beyond what's practical.

Yeah John, it would be interesting to see actual flow tests of pumps under various conditions to see what's what.  Is there such a thing?  Till then we are just guessing, but somewhere I thought I saw that pump reliefs are sized to handle all possible conditions so who knows?

[BSB67]

The difference in the amount that the HV pump pumps relative to the std pump is proportional to the rotor length.  However, flow is immaterial in this discussion.

I have seen the HV pump go over 100 psi and buldge the filter.  Others have actually split the filter.  The relief valve has no idea what is downstream of the pump, and arguably contemplates that the motor has loose clearances and should not need to dump all the oil it has sucked from the pan through the relief valve.

[68charger440]

The HV pump will pump more oil at the same pressure, BUT at 70 psi the relief valve is simply open more and recirculating the oil back to the to THE SUCTION OF THE PUMP (not back to the pan).  What will probably happen in the real world is if everything is equal, the standard pump will be at 70 psi, and the HV will probably be at 75 psi in the example that I gave earlier. 

I think this explanation would have done it for me in the first place.  It covers the 'WHAT, WHY, and the HOW" of what goes on in a couple of sentences.  The others gave more color to the picture too, but I would have understood it from this.

[A383Wing]

Okay, some of the items stated are correct, but some not.

The HV pump will pump more oil at the same pressure, BUT at 70 psi the relief valve is simply open more and recirculating the oil back to the to THE SUCTION OF THE PUMP (not back to the pan).  What will probably happen in the real world is if everything is equal, the standard pump will be at 70 psi, and the HV will probably be at 75 psi in the example that I gave earlier. 

disagree, both pumps will push the same amount of oil through an engine that has not been modified to take advantage of the HV pump moving more fluid, ie, opening up all the oil passages inside the engine to take the extra added oil from the HV pump...if you put the HV pump on a stock engine, you will not see any extra oil flow to any portion of the engine because the internal passages are still the stock size that the stock pump is more than capable of handling.

[68charger440]

I think I got hung up on the same area as you.  Would you agree if his statement read "is capable of pumping more oil" instead of "will pump"? 

[A383Wing]

only if the internal passages were opened up to allow the more volume of the oil to be pumped through the engine....otherwise the HV pump is not doing any good on the engine

[BSB67]

only if the internal passages were opened up to allow the more volume of the oil to be pumped through the engine....otherwise the HV pump is not doing any good on the engine

You can certainly disagree, but you are still wrong.  It is a positive displacement pump, it will pump more oil, just not to the motor.  Go back and read carefully.

[ws23rt]

I've been reading this thread and see the same thing being said over a few times.
It looks like the understanding about how the pump works is understood but a question is still there.

My understanding is we have a positive displacement pump. --It will pump x amount of oil per revolution.

A HV pump --can/will pump more than a stock pump-- That extra availability of oil is not used (in normal and our cases) and is bypassed to the pan.

The extra effort the hv pump uses is lost as it's generally not needed.

The addition of the HV pump will reap no benefit beyond what is in the mind of the buyer. But it will cost a bit in extra heat in the oil for the peace of mind.

For loose bearing clearance racing engines and the like I can see the value of the HV pump.

[ws23rt]

I will admit to adding a HV pump to a couple of my cars back in the seventies. I did it because of the identifier. ----Oiling is good-- High volume oiling must be better.

Let's just reflect a bit and think of all things we wanted to do to our cars to make them better, stronger, faster, etc. We did things in many cases for wrong and miss guided  reasons.

[A383Wing]

For loose bearing clearance racing engines and the like I can see the value of the HV pump.

only if the internal oiling passages inside the engine are opened up to take advantage of it

[68charger440]

I think everyone is getting a bit too caught up in the semantics of the conversation. Is it "to-may-to or to-mah-to."?
This horse is dead, and isn't going to run any faster if we keep beating it.  It was a good learning experience for me , but it might be time to let it rest in peace.

[1974dodgecharger]

so external oil routing it is   

Milodon has a kits...

[myk]

so external oil routing it is   

Milodon has a kits...

Now that's over-kill if I ever saw it.  I'll let you guys know when I start turning 7K RPM's or more lol...

[BSB67]

For loose bearing clearance racing engines and the like I can see the value of the HV pump.

only if the internal oiling passages inside the engine are opened up to take advantage of it

The bearing and lifter clearances are the restrictions that matter, not the "passages".  I suppose that at some point in extreme bearing and lifter clearances the passages could become a meaningful restriction.

[Ghoste]

I would rather have the hv pump capacity on hand and never need it than to need and have the pump unable to deliver the goods. 

[BSB67]

I would rather have the hv pump capacity on hand and never need it than to need and have the pump unable to deliver the goods. 

That is what a gauge is for. Then you'll learn that the std is adequate.

You could install a Milodon dual line external line system with a swing pick up in case the HV does not deliver the goods too.

[Ghoste]

Thanks, but I'm using one anyway.