Here we go again, another school shooting.

[hemi68charger]

I would like to see the statistics of death by guns in those countries that allow guns versus those that don't..... Maybe there's a correlation...

On the topic of not getting the guns into the hands of the mentally ill, when are they detected? If no one has ever had an issue that constituted former clinical help, then where's the history to prevent someone from purchasing a gun when a check is run? Short answer is, there isn't? Voila, sick person purchases gun will ill-intent and no one's the smarter about it......  As long as there is an abundant supply of firearms to people, this sort of thing will continue.... And there's nothing anyone's going to do to stop it. Hell, I'm probably better off taking my chances in Iraq and mortars than here in the States with guns...

[el dub]

It's the breakdown of the family.  All of the rest of our social issues, including shootings,  are symptoms.

Nothing will improve families faster than a bunch of decent working/middle class jobs.  It all tracks back to economics.

What will improve families is having a mother and father in them. There are a lot of families with no father in them.

[Mike DC]

 
I fully agree.

But few things are more stressful & destructive to a couple than chronic money issues, especially when it's the father who isn't earning enough.  Even bodily health problems are strongly correlated with money.  Money isn't the direct obvious thing breaking relationships but it's a huge underlying factor. 

Most of the destructive/unstable relationships I've ever seen in my life had that as a stressing factor, and most of the healthiest ones were pretty solid financially.  That's no coincidence. 

[XH29N0G]

Saw this:  http://graphics.latimes.com/school-shootings-since-newtown/ I am sure it has to be flawed in some way, everything is, but it also worth knowing about.  

My mom and dad lost a bunch of close friends in a university shooting a few years back.  Mom didn't teach that particular morning, but would have been in the very same hallway on other days.  Dad taught in the building next door and saw it unfold.  My heart goes out to those who have been killed or lost someone.
 

[440]

I hate to say it but the great "Melting Pot" is a recipe for failure. As long as everyone agrees and on the same page all is well untill too many disagree, fall behind etc and tensions raise. Modern society and a lack of respect today is one of the biggest contributing factors in my opinion.

[Tony Trout]

Read that he asked his victims their religion. If they answered Christian they were shot in the head, any other, in the leg.

That to me sounds so eerily like a copycat shooting regarding the Littleton, CO shooting years ago.  When the shooter asked if they believed in Jesus, he shot them.  Cassie Bernall was one of the victims as well as Rachael Scott, as I'm sure we all remember.   

I really wish this crap about gun-control would ease up but...I know that as long as stuff like this happens, it's not going to happen.  Guns can be used safely if the person is taught how.  Unfortunately, there are too many trigger-happy idiots out there who want to seemingly shoot someone for no reason.   

(None of my post was aimed at anyone here.  I'm new here so plase forgive me and let me find my way around here.  )

[ws23rt]

Read that he asked his victims their religion. If they answered Christian they were shot in the head, any other, in the leg.

That to me sounds so eerily like a copycat shooting regarding the Littleton, CO shooting years ago.  When the shooter asked if they believed in Jesus, he shot them.  Cassie Bernall was one of the victims as well as Rachael Scott, as I'm sure we all remember.    

I really wish this crap about gun-control would ease up but...I know that as long as stuff like this happens, it's not going to happen.  Guns can be used safely if the person is taught how.  Unfortunately, there are too many trigger-happy idiots out there who want to seemingly shoot someone for no reason.    

(None of my post was aimed at anyone here.  I'm new here so plase forgive me and let me find my way around here.  )

This issue makes everyone want to speak. By it's nature frustration happens and IMO speaking to a group (such as this) is a good release of the I can't do anything sense we all feel.
BTW welcome to the site.

[Chargerguy74]

Read that he asked his victims their religion. If they answered Christian they were shot in the head, any other, in the leg.

Similar to Columbine, no? Christians were targetted.

Now if someone in that classroom was "carrying" how many would have died? Banning guns I feel is what will eventually happen, and where we're headed long term. I also feel it is the exact opposite of what should be done. As a law abiding citizen I should be allowed to conceal carry so that if my family, or I, or other innocent people are ever put in a situation where it's life or death, us or an agressor, I should legally be able to defend myself with lethal force. And unless you intend to do me harm, you'd never have to feel unsafe about me carrying.

[ws23rt]

Read that he asked his victims their religion. If they answered Christian they were shot in the head, any other, in the leg.

Similar to Columbine, no? Christians were targetted.

Now if someone in that classroom was "carrying" how many would have died? Banning guns I feel is what will eventually happen, and where we're headed long term. I also feel it is the exact opposite of what should be done. As a law abiding citizen I should be allowed to conceal carry so that if my family, or I, or other innocent people are even put in a situation where it's life or death, us or an agressor, I should legally be able to defend myself with lethal force. And unless you intend to do me harm, you'd never have to feel unsafe about me carrying.

This is simple basic stuff.  The idea of the right to bare arms is intended to allow for personal protection when it comes down to it.

It seems odd to think of restricting ones own personal protection as a way of making them (and the whole) safer.  

I recently read something about the lack of response or active movement (for self preservation) on the part of those in the room when the killings were going on. It's kind of creepy that so many will just wait for things to happen.  In shock I guess.
Basic fire arms training at the very least will give someone a heads up about how to realize and understand when a personal threat is at hand.

[Chargerguy74]

We even have restrictions on body armor up here.

Murder is already illegal. Making guns illegal wont change anything.

[Chargerguy74]

Read that he asked his victims their religion. If they answered Christian they were shot in the head, any other, in the leg.

Similar to Columbine, no? Christians were targetted.

Now if someone in that classroom was "carrying" how many would have died? Banning guns I feel is what will eventually happen, and where we're headed long term. I also feel it is the exact opposite of what should be done. As a law abiding citizen I should be allowed to conceal carry so that if my family, or I, or other innocent people are even put in a situation where it's life or death, us or an agressor, I should legally be able to defend myself with lethal force. And unless you intend to do me harm, you'd never have to feel unsafe about me carrying.

This is simple basic stuff.  The idea of the right to bare arms is intended to allow for personal protection when it comes down to it.

It seems odd to think of restricting ones own personal protection as a way of making them (and the whole) safer.  

I recently read something about the lack of response or active movement (for self preservation) on the part of those in the room when the killings were going on. It's kind of creepy that so many will just wait for things to happen.  In shock I guess.
Basic fire arms training at the very least will give someone a heads up about how to realize and understand when a personal threat is at hand.

That's interesting about the lack of response. I wonder if it's just human nature for the most part, obviously not all are like that, but for a similar response on a larger scale just look at the Nazi concentration camps. Prisoners greatly outnumbered the guards. I just find that interesting, and disturbing, but don't mean to get off topic here.

[ws23rt]

It is apparently a part of human nature to freeze up in a situation like this.  
I'm not good on recalling specific places and times of horrible killings. But remember hearing about killings in Africa where the killers had only knives and swords. They would round up people in a group and hack them to death piece by piece as the victims huddled together.   ---BTW the killers were in that case teenage males---(The likely hood of it being anything other than social influence is low).

To me this shows that the weapon of choice is clearly not the issue.  It is the brain that kills. The brain finds the tools to do it.

[Chargerguy74]

It is apparently a part of human nature to freeze up in a situation like this.  
I'm not good on recalling specific places and times of horrible killings. But remember hearing about killings in Africa where the killers had only knives and swords. They would round up people in a group and hack them to death piece by piece as the victims huddled together.  

To me this shows that the weapon of choice is clearly not the issue.  It is the brain that kills. The brain finds the tools to do it.

Bingo

[NHCharger]

I would like to see the statistics of death by guns in those countries that allow guns versus those that don't..... Maybe there's a correlation...

Look at Chicago. Very strict gun laws. As of today 2,300 shootings, 370 dead this year.

I saw a stat on line that said that Switzerland has 8.2 million people and gun owner ship is required, lowest homicide rate. Honduras has 8.2 million people, citizens are banned from owning guns, highest homicide rate. No idea if it's true.

A recent study showed 9 out of 10 criminals obtained their guns without purchasing them legally. with our porous borders and nonexistent policing of illegals entering the country any strict gun control law would only make it harder for law abiding citizens to buy a gun. Our government never looks at the whole picture, only a feel good sound bite for the main stream media to make themselves feel better.

[Troy]

I would like to see the statistics of death by guns in those countries that allow guns versus those that don't..... Maybe there's a correlation...

I didn't mention it earlier but I actually did do a little digging before I posted. Since I was recently in Australia and since they have a very strict gun control policy that has been in place for a while I used them. I no not have the link here at home but it's easy enough to find on Google. Yes, of course they have less gun crime but what I found really interesting is on the question of "do you feel safe walking down the street" they were behind the US. I did not do this to pick and choose a statistic to say we're better than some other place. I did it to see what choices we're making will actually improve things. It's too often a knee jerk (over)reaction that gets is into a bigger mess. It's many times harder to get rid of something stupid than it is to implement it in the first place.

Troy

[polywideblock]

"I would like to see the statistics of death by guns in those countries that allow guns versus those that don't..... Maybe there's a correlation..."

            http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2012/08/02/did-gun-control-work-in-australia/

   

[ws23rt]

Statistics are a good tool for anyone to use to bolster a point of view. It is wise to be wary of all statistics.-- For example -- Statistics for shootings in schools could or may not include any/or all fire arm discharge on or around a school.

What I find interesting in this case (according to news of the perp) is he was a rather young loner, living with mom, obsessed with guns, infatuated with other mass killings, wrote about it, etc.

Is this not where we should be looking to find a way to protect our selves from suicide killers??  Where better than identifying them as best we can.

Tracking guns sales (for example) may lead to this sort of hazardous person but seems like an after the fact way of identifying a potential suicidal killer.

I can't get the idea out of my mind of this guys mother (that he lives with) as being partly to blame for hiding/enabling him.

[redmist]

I don't normally post into these topics but they are getting way too common.  I heard on the radio today, that more than 87,000 Americans have died by gunfire since the Sandy Hook shootings.  My son said there have been more than 200 shootings on school grounds so far this year.  If all that is true I can understand why people are calling for something to be done.  It's hard to expect people to be reasonable when opinions are so entrenched.

All these facts are false. They get spewed by Anti-Gun groups that want you to send them money.

That 200 figure was debunked to be 7. LOL!

[redmist]

Look,

Homicide and violent crime as a whole has DECLINED by almost 50% from 1970 figures to now. The shootings are far LESS then they use to be. you hear about it more today because of how the internet propagates information. You are much more safe today as apposed to say 1980 or the 70's. These things happen, and they have always happened... It's nothing new here, or anywhere else in the world.

The United States ranks at 111th in Homicide rates with all other countries. If Detroit alone was separated from the United States and was it's own country it would rank number 2 Per Capita in homicide rates! And they have the strictest gun laws in the US.

74 shootings since sandyhook is false... and it points out just how sick in the head these anti-gun folks are just to collect your money.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/380108/lying-about-school-shootings-charles-c-w-cooke

Even CNN discounted 80% of these shootings!

This is a great read that covers most of the tactics used by the Anti-Crowd to push an agenda, and it points out that almost 100% of it is lies.

http://www.bookwormroom.com/2015/10/01/five-reasons-that-the-benefits-that-flow-from-guns-far-outweigh-the-risks-inherent-in-guns/


Wittle does a good job of sorting the data here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE

[Davtona]

Look,

The shootings are far LESS then they use to be.

Hardly,

I grew up in the 60, 70s and 80s. It was nothing like this back then. The American society has changed. No one cares about anyone else for the most part. As was said we are numb to this. These shootings are things that are not real to most people. They happened to someone else. We would rather have this happen on a regular basis than sit down and figure out how we could keep guns from the nut cases. The 2nd amendment has become more important than these victims right to live. If the crime scene photos of one of these massacres' were ever posted publically this would come to a swift end. That would make it real to the masses. Now it is just as one of our moron politicians said.

"STUFF HAPPENS"

[skip68]

I'm just glad they're finally focusing on the fact that it's a mental health issue more than a gun issue.   I'm all for better background checks but unfortunately some men are just killers and that's just part of human nature that will ALWAYS exist.  
I'm also glad to hear a comment I made before was also made on CNN.  I'd said that we can't even rid the streets of basic drugs from the bad guys, getting the guns from them is an unrealistic fantasy.   As long as we have soft targets, sick killers and the media make them infamous we will see this happen    

I don't know why the media is not being held more accountable.  These killers are doing this because of the media attention and everyone will know their name.   To me it's encouraging and influencing these killers and the killers even admit it.  
Who cares what this guys name is?   Nobody knows him and knowing his name does absolutely nothing for myself or anyone in the general population.    Media should be held to higher standards and not act like the tabloid crap.

There's your solution Mr president.   The mainstream media plays a bigger role in glorifying and giving these killers attention they seek causing more copycat shootings than any gun laws will at preventing them.     You want "COMMON SENSE" laws, well there you go.  
Of course this IS NOT a solution that will completely end all killing at soft targets by guns or bombs.  It's simply a "COMMON SENSE" starting point that should lower the percentage of these crimes.   

We all don't agree about what to do with gun laws or if there's even a fix for this.  But what we all do agree on is the role that mainstream media plays in glorifying these idiots is an incentive.   
These crimes should be considered an act of terrorism.  And with these killers depending on media for recognition the media should NOT be permitted to publish their names because it promotes more killings.   

I understand freedom of speech and all but there must be a way to stop the media from contributing to this.   

[Davtona]

I'm all for better background checks

I don't know why the media is not being held more accountable.

Then why is it so impossible to improve something as simple as background checks? And yes we have mentally ill as does every country in the world. The difference is we allow guns and the mentally ill to combine into killing machines. As far as the news media goes they should report it. No they should not sensationalize it. And it has been toned down some this time with restraint in naming the killer. To blame this on the news media is crazy. The simple fact is a crazy was able to get multiple guns this time and used them to massacre 9 people. To not report it is sticking our heads in the sand with a "STUFF HAPPENS" attitude. Is that really what America has become?

[skip68]

It should be reported because it's news.  Just not the killers name.  Don't give them the credit they want is what I'm saying.   And I do agree that all gun owners should have a background check for the safety of all.   I'm not blaming the media for reporting the shooting.  I'm blaming them for saying his name and giving him the credit. 

Stricter background checks won't stop killings but it will make it harder for some of these nut jobs to get guns maybe.   Then again, I'm not really sure as to how many of these killers had used their own legally obtained guns.   

[polywideblock]

 " I'm all for better background checks but unfortunately some men are just killers and that's just part of human nature that will ALWAYS exist. "

  hate to burst your bubble but there are as many crazy bitches out there as men   

[John_Kunkel]

This is the fallacy of background checks as a way to prevent illegal gun possession. If a nut case has no history in his background that would raise a red flag then he can legally purchase all the guns he wants.

It's time to accept the simple fact that some evil people will do evil things that can't be prevented without trouncing on civil liberties.