Here we go again, another school shooting.

[skip68]

Another nut job shoots up a Jr college in southern Oregon.  And of course gun laws are becoming the topic.    
 The anti gun idiots think better laws will put an end to these kinds of shootings.     as long as we have crazy dangerous people that are going to kill we'll have killings.  Only the tools or methods may change.  

[el dub]

They need some new legislation>make the parents of the person who does the crime responsible. That might slow up the morons.

[myk]

It's never going to end, man.  The violence or the anti-gun B.S.  I took myself out of the debate a long time ago because there's just no point...

[Mike DC]

                    
We won't keep gun rights forever just by trying to resist the legislation against it.  That's not enough.

The average suburban public wants the mass shootings to stop.  They don't know what else to do.  Eventually they will vote away gun rights just to feel like they are doing something about it.  




We need to suggest some alternate idea to help curb the shootings.  Something that feels like concrete action.  

We've already been piling more jail time onto low-level offenders for the last 30 years.  That has already gone too far if anything.  The public wants a different answer.

[NHCharger]

Read that he asked his victims their religion. If they answered Christian they were shot in the head, any other, in the leg.

[myk]

Read that he asked his victims their religion. If they answered Christian they were shot in the head, any other, in the leg.

Ban Christianity along with guns?

[el dub]

Maybe if the  media did not glorify these morons  it would be a non event. Maybe if everything on tv wasn't  kill, kill, kill, and add mayhem it would change things. Maybe if elephants had wings they could fly.

[myk]

Eh.  I bought a Kimber TLE RL 2, picked it up a month ago and haven't even bothered to shoot it.  I have a Sig P226 that's been waiting for me to start the DROS for about a month.  Hell I think I even forgot the combination to my gun safe.  Wack-jobs will still keep wacking and the anti's will keep yelling and screaming bloody murder and ban everything, with popularity seeking politicians only too happy to oblige.  I just don't give a damn because this conflict will only cease when humanity is at the point that it doesn't need to argue or have to even own guns.  In other words, not in my lifetime.  In California I can't even step outside of my house without my guns neutered and locked up in a container-absolutely useless, worthless...

[RECHRGD]

I don't understand how this happened.  The campus is a gun free zone!

[hemi68charger]

I don't understand how this happened.  The campus is a gun free zone!

Just because it is a gun-free zone, there's no mechanism to detect them.. It is more like a [would you please not bring your gun]-zone.........

As eluded to, the mental illness aspect of being a human will never go away, the sinister aspect of being a human will never go away. Yes, if someone has an agenda to kill, they will find any tool to do it.... Granted, if all they had were wet-noodles or knives and not guns, it would take a longer period of time to kill many people with a wet-noodle than a firearm. There are way too many firearms in the United States, not sure how one would get a grip on this. The camp says it is the people. True enough, but how in the world do you ever know when someone's going to snap? You don't........ You can control what that person has access to to do the evil deed ( but, that boat has sailed a long time ago and one will NEVER control the gun situation here in the US ).

It is a dang shame. May God bless those effected by this evil act..........

[ws23rt]

                   
We won't keep gun rights forever just by trying to resist the legislation against it.  That's not enough.

The average suburban public wants the mass shootings to stop.  They don't know what else to do.  Eventually they will vote away gun rights just to feel like they are doing something about it.  




We need to suggest some alternate idea to help curb the shootings.  Something that feels like concrete action.  

We've already been piling more jail time onto low-level offenders for the last 30 years.  That has already gone too far if anything.  The public wants a different answer.

I agree with all of this post. --Especially the part that we want it to stop and we don't know what to do.

The real honest cause of this is hidden in the minds of who knows how many people. To find those loose cannons just in time is a frustrating fantasy.

It's no surprise to me that the conversation is not about profiling and forced detention of those that might fit the profile.--That sort of thing is on the mind of most but is not spoken.   It's partly the elephant in the room issue and the emperor with know clothes story.

I believe most thinking folks get this -- everyone want's to do something but the way to catch the brain that pulls these triggers is not going to fit out politically correct way of doing things.

It is no surprise that the gun issue is always raised. After all it is something to do and is always brought up by those that we look to for action. They are no different except they have to speak.

IMO if laws were passed to take our guns it will only make criminals of all gun owners.  Making a law does not guarantee compliance with that law. A really bad law will be laughed at and ignored as needed.  We are not stupid on the whole.

[Dino]

Nobody is talking about taking guns away or ban guns, that was never the issue.  The real issue at hand is how to get better security checks so we don't hand out guns to the mentally impaired, like this shooter.  He had a lifelong history of mental illness yet had no problems whatsoever to get a bunch of guns.  THAT is the problem.  Nobody is taking away the guns of law abiding citizens so relax.

For once maybe we can just feel bad for the victims and their loved ones instead of taking about gun rights?  We get it, been there, done that.

[skip68]

   Well said Dino.   

[Troy]

Well, we could talk about the tragedy but the "more gun laws" crowd already bypassed it. When the president opened his mouth they weren't even sure which guns (type, number, legality) were used. Way to make informed decisions based on facts! But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your emotions...

But what I don't understand is the "laws against gun violence" call. I don't know if this is just a change-the-vocabulary-to-make-it-seem-more-acceptable ploy or a real thing. Whatever laws regarding gun violence this guy was going to get charged with became useless the second he died.

What worries me is our "sit back and watch" mentality. This guy told people he was going to do something and no one tried to stop it. Once he started shooting, people ran or stood there hoping to not get killed. One guy - and a few cops - actually did something. But it was too late. I see videos daily of people standing around (usually recording with their phones) while a person is beaten, humiliated, or whatever. It seems as if we have fewer people who care/protect others than we have people who harm or are indifferent. Weapons/methods don't mean a damn thing if the intent is there.

Troy

[Mike DC]

  
First rule of Congress -  

It's more fun to pass 10 new laws than put money into enforcing 1 perfectly good existing law.


Each new law gives the authorities more power to hang people with.  They get to use or ignore all these laws when it suits them.

[ITSA426]

I don't normally post into these topics but they are getting way too common.  I heard on the radio today, that more than 87,000 Americans have died by gunfire since the Sandy Hook shootings.  My son said there have been more than 200 shootings on school grounds so far this year.  If all that is true I can understand why people are calling for something to be done.  It's hard to expect people to be reasonable when opinions are so entrenched.

[stripedelete]

It's the breakdown of the family.  All of the rest of our social issues, including shootings,  are symptoms.

[Troy]

I don't normally post into these topics but they are getting way too common.  I heard on the radio today, that more than 87,000 Americans have died by gunfire since the Sandy Hook shootings.  My son said there have been more than 200 shootings on school grounds so far this year.  If all that is true I can understand why people are calling for something to be done.  It's hard to expect people to be reasonable when opinions are so entrenched.

Except throwing around numbers without context isn't helpful. Especially in cities, most "gun violence" is gang/drug related (and typically perpetrated by your typical gang demographic). In most of those cases, the victim and assailant have a criminal history and a large portion have previous weapons charges. So how many times can one guy skew the results? What about 3 city blocks worth of guys? In each of 100 large cities?

I'll disagree with that 200 school shootings number. This was near the top on Google:
http://mashable.com/2014/06/10/school-shootings-since-sandy-hook/#EWWD9UMfj5kT

Not to mention, some incidents classified as "school" shootings are not what people commonly think of. Check out this list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States#2010s

Recently there was a shooting here by a University of Cincinnati police officer but the incident was during a traffic stop off campus.

Statistics are really helpful when you understand context. And in this case they're really helpful when you understand how police classify crime.

I saw something interesting here:
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

39,555 incidents, 9,966 deaths, and 20,287 injuries. Assuming a single death OR injury at each incident (which is certainly NOT the case -especially with 264 "mass shootings") that means 9,302 incidents resulted in no one dead or injured. So 1 in 4 times nothing actually happened? This may explain: "Rather than just collecting incidents of death, GVA also catalogs incidents where a victim was injured by shooting or by a victim who was the subject of an armed robber or home invader. Incidents of defensive gun use, home owners who stop a home invasion, store clerks who stop a robbery, individuals who stop an assault or rape with a gun are also collected." So, basically, if you stop a home invasion or a robber trips on the Slushie you spilled on the floor it still shows up in the crime statistics.

Which also means I have to disagree with that 87,000 number. Only 9,966 deaths this year and 12,562 last year would leave 64,472 in 2013. In which case there's been a significant drop!

And since this morning I've noticed the news switching to the term "gun safety laws".

Troy

[John_Kunkel]

I don't understand how this happened.  The campus is a gun free zone!

Let's see, you're a deranged nut case planning a mass shooting and don't want to have to worry about somebody shooting back....easy, pick a gun-free zone.

[DeltaV]

  This truly is heroic: 

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/oregon-college-shooting/oregon-shooting-heroic-veteran-chris-mintz-was-shot-7-times-n437291

[RECHRGD]

I don't understand how this happened.  The campus is a gun free zone!

Let's see, you're a deranged nut case planning a mass shooting and don't want to have to worry about somebody shooting back....easy, pick a gun-free zone.

Surely you saw the sarcasm in my post.  But I know things get hard to define on Internet chatter.......

[Mike DC]

It's the breakdown of the family.  All of the rest of our social issues, including shootings,  are symptoms.

Nothing will improve families faster than a bunch of decent working/middle class jobs.  It all tracks back to economics.

[RECHRGD]

It's the breakdown of the family.  All of the rest of our social issues, including shootings,  are symptoms.

Nothing will improve families faster than a bunch of decent working/middle class jobs.  It all tracks back to economics.

Economics is a part of it.  But, if you're old enough, think back to moral standards.  Things have drastically changed in the last thirty some odd years.  Now, nobody is responsible for their actions and if called to accountability, you are a victim.  A common demoninator with these idiots seems to be an obsession with violent video games.....

[Mike DC]

  


The media has usually been pretty stupid over time.  Look back 200 or 2000 years ago and it's worthless sensationalized crap just like now.  There was a cleaner period in the mid-1900s but that was oppressive in a lot of ways.  It wasn't historically normal.  

The media wasn't always raising our kids.  That changed when both parents became so overworked & underpaid.  IMO we shouldn't be trying to fight the media, we should be trying to raise our kids ourselves instead of having the media & the schools do it for us.   These things have gained too much influence lately.  Trying to "fix them" is taking our eye off the ball IMO. 


As for the culture devaluing hard work & elevating cheating & entitlement . . . we can't expect kids to grow up thinking they should play fair when they never see the adults doing it.  People grow up more willing to game the system when the system has been gaming them.  Did Mitt Romney make his money in moral ways?  Did Hillary?  Is it moral for a police car to hide behind obstructions right where a speed limit sign has been suddenly lowered, and entrap people?  It all adds up.

[stripedelete]

It's the breakdown of the family.  All of the rest of our social issues, including shootings,  are symptoms.

Nothing will improve families faster than a bunch of decent working/middle class jobs.  It all tracks back to economics.

No way Jack!

There are as many throw away, ignored, raised-by-wolves, kids in upper and middle class homes as there are in poorer families.   Morales, ethics and the sacrifices required to RAISE kids just don't fit into the myopic lives of a large part of society.

Welcome to the shitter!