Delusional Body Shop Customers

[ACUDANUT]

  I have a 72 Charger. No Rust. Just needs a couple very small dents and paint. (the door jams and engine compartment are done)  A local body shop Quoted me 12-15K.    
Are you freaking kidding me ?
The body shops name is Newman's in Olathe Ks.

[tracpack440]

Yes very delusional. I asked a couple of body shops in my area about 2006. They wanted me to give them 30k then they could start on the car.

[DC_1]

Ask them how they arrive at that number.

Let's says they use $1500 in materials and paint and the shop rate is $75/hr

15,000
-1500
=13,500
/75
=180

So are they going to spend 180 man ours prepping and painting the car? Are they also putting it back together? If they dedicate 1 man to the car he would be working on it 4 and a half weeks......Seems excessive if there is no rust or body panel replacement

[RECHRGD]

Ask them how they arrive at that number.

Let's says they use $1500 in materials and paint and the shop rate is $75/hr

15,000
-1500
=13,500
/75
=180

So awre they going to spend 180 man ours prepping and painting the car? Are they also putting it back together? If they dedicate 1 man to the car he would be working on it 4 and a half months......Seems excessive if there is no rust or body panel replacement

That would be 4.5 WEEKS at 40 hours per week........

[myk]

Post some pictures of the car.  Then maybe people like Hemi-Hampton or Charger-Bodie can give you a more realistic appraisal...

[ACUDANUT]

They must watch too much Gas Monkey Garage.  Richard (the owner) claims to have spent over 100K fixing a 82 short bed Chevy Truck.  

[Charger-Bodie]

Pics?

[ACUDANUT]

 I can send some to you. But I have never mastered the skill to post a picture on here, by myself. I am lucky to actually take pictures with a digital camera and send them successfully.

[Homerr]

What sort of finished product did the shop say you'd get?  Did you tell him what you wanted, what did you say?  Driver quality?  Show quality?

Are they pulling all the trim, etc?  Are you? 

Base/clear?  Cut & buffed?

Expect some CYA on their part when they uncover the unexpected, and you should expect 20% higher than quoted...as a minimum.

[maxwellwedge]

Good materials (primer, paint etc.) alone would be a few G's

[Aero426]

The shop may have shot you a high bid intentionally.  In other words, not a job they want to take on.  Or if they do, it has to be worth it.    They may be allowing for what might lie beneath your old paint.

   
Just curious, what kind of number were you expecting to pay for your paint job?

[green69rt]

I hate to be a killjoy but $12-$15 K may be an average cost for a complete paint job.   If all you want is a quick scratch, wipe and spray then not so much but I would think high quality paint and clear coat (if you would use BC/CC) would run $2500 for just the material.  Complete sand and resurface, minor dent fixup, trim remove/replace, masking.  Then cutting in the color and buffing out the clear; you're up to 100 hours easy.  If you can find a shop for $60/ hour that does a good job then you start at 2500 + 6000 = 8500.  That's probably the very, very low end.

More likey is $70 and 120 hours.  Now you're at 2500 + 9400 = 11900.  So 12-15 K is not that unreasonable.

[myk]

I'm getting light-headed already... 

[ACUDANUT]

The Charger has been in primer for 15 years. No trim, nor the vinyl top is still on.  I figured 2K in body/paint prep work and 2K for paint.  In Kansas, that is a lot of money.

[Aero426]

Someone I know had a decent driver grade paint job done in the last year by a guy (unlicensed shop and probably an illegal)  for 5k.    That is a rock bottom of the barrel price these days.    No one in a licensed shop would do it for that.  

For anyone to guarantee their work, your 15 year old primer probably will need to come off and start over.  

$2000 at $50/hr only buys you 40 hours labor time to prime, block, paint, color sand and buff the car.    

[6spd68]

$2000 at $50/hr only buys you 40 hours labor time to prime, block, paint, color sand and buff the car.     

To a competent body man, that's all the time they should really need.  Maybe 50 hours if they sand, and add a second coat of primer. 

Here's a link to another forum with decent discussion on this topic:
http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=50917

[Aero426]

$2000 at $50/hr only buys you 40 hours labor time to prime, block, paint, color sand and buff the car.    

To a competent body man, that's all the time they should really need.  Maybe 50 hours if they sand, and add a second coat of primer.  

Here's a link to another forum with decent discussion on this topic:
http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=50917

Yes, 40 hours labor is probably enough if shiny paint and a car that waves "hello" is considered satisfactory.    

[Charger-Bodie]

I think maybe this thread should be titled. " see delusional body shop customers. .....

[ACUDANUT]

I think maybe this thread should be titled. " see delusional body shop customers. .....

New topic. "Delusional Body Shop Customers"

Done. Let's talk about what Customers expect for 6K for a car that just needs paint.

I'm done here.

[Daytona R/T SE]

I think maybe this thread should be titled. " see delusional body shop customers. .....

Exactly.

[6spd68]

$2000 at $50/hr only buys you 40 hours labor time to prime, block, paint, color sand and buff the car.    

To a competent body man, that's all the time they should really need.  Maybe 50 hours if they sand, and add a second coat of primer.  

Here's a link to another forum with decent discussion on this topic:
http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=50917

Yes, 40 hours labor is probably enough if shiny paint and a car that waves "hello" is considered satisfactory.    

You're in the wrong business, if it takes you more than 6-8 hours a session to block/colour sand/buff a car...

I know going over body work, and filler can take a lot longer, but just going over the surface of the vehicle???  

I can see it taking longer if you've done it yourself, in your garage/driveway.   But that's just one man's opinion...

Bottom line, I'd expect to pay 6-8K(Just paint, no body) for a solid paintjob...  Obviously not some crazy show winner, but decent enough to have that new car look about it.

[Charger-Bodie]

I think maybe this thread should be titled. " see delusional body shop customers. .....

New topic. "Delusional Body Shop Customers"

Done. Let's talk about what Customers expect for 6K for a car that just needs paint.

I'm done here.

I honestly wasn't trying to attack you . I just find it funny that people think body work just magically happens . It's way more work than most think  it is. To the people who say you can do a complete paint on a large car in 40 hours . One man. Have at it.

[RallyeMike]

I don't think any of you can accurately judge what it should cost from your computer. Who knows what level of quality was being quoted or what lies under that 15 year old primer. And there is certainly the wild card of the shop - do they really want the job? Many shops  don't really want the problems that come with non-insurance work and old cars, so they price the work at a premium. That's why they are still in business!

[Mike DC]

  

The old car hobby's standards for paintwork have crept steadily upwards over the decades.  That's a big factor.


We would be complaining about the huge cost of "just a stock engine overhaul" if we expected every station wagon 318 to make at least 500 horsepower.  

[Kern Dog]

The Charger has been in primer for 15 years. No trim, nor the vinyl top is still on.  I figured 2K in body/paint prep work and 2K for paint.  In Kansas, that is a lot of money.

In primer for 15 years?
Primer is as porous as a sponge. It soaks up almost everything that gets close to it. The shop would probably have to strip it just to make sure whatever contaminants in there are gone.

[green69rt]

$2000 at $50/hr only buys you 40 hours labor time to prime, block, paint, color sand and buff the car.    

To a competent body man, that's all the time they should really need.  Maybe 50 hours if they sand, and add a second coat of primer.  

Here's a link to another forum with decent discussion on this topic:
http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=50917

Yes, 40 hours labor is probably enough if shiny paint and a car that waves "hello" is considered satisfactory.    

You're in the wrong business, if it takes you more than 6-8 hours a session to block/colour sand/buff a car...

I know going over body work, and filler can take a lot longer, but just going over the surface of the vehicle???  

I can see it taking longer if you've done it yourself, in your garage/driveway.   But that's just one man's opinion...

Bottom line, I'd expect to pay 6-8K(Just paint, no body) for a solid paintjob...  Obviously not some crazy show winner, but decent enough to have that new car look about it.

I tried to say at the beginning of my post (didn't say it very well.)  Yes, just going over the surface may get you away for 8K, but how many shops would do that and how many people would want the result?   I wonder how many shops would even do it with any type of guarantee.  If the shop did it and the car came back 5 times for runs and dust specs it wouldn't take long to turn you off from even accepting that type of job.    Maybe the professionals on this forum would add a note or two??

[Mike DC]

 
15 years is the difference between 1972 and 1987.  15 years ago the WTC towers were still standing.  That's a long time.  That car probably needs to go down to the bare metal to get something long-lasting.

[Bastrd]

Hi, just a small reply to topic starter.

I put int EASILY 160 man hours on any kind of old american car (prepp + paint). Those are not even straight from the factory, if you want quality its going to cost you.
Never done a car under 160 man hours.

Ofcourse there are people faster and cheaper then me, but i dont want anything not up to standards leaving with my signature on it.
(Im located in Sweden, so any kind of material cost and or general manhour/rental cost may ofcourse differ).

[69 OUR/TEA]

Hi, just a small reply to topic starter.

I put int EASILY 160 man hours on any kind of old american car (prepp + paint). Those are not even straight from the factory, if you want quality its going to cost you.
Never done a car under 160 man hours.

Ofcourse there are people faster and cheaper then me, but i dont want anything not up to standards leaving with my signature on it.
(Im located in Sweden, so any kind of material cost and or general manhour/rental cost may ofcourse differ).

I've knocked on the door of 100 hours , just in sanding and buffing a car .
What is not being said here about the car in topic , is what the quality of the outcome is expected to be , or did I miss that ? If it is to "quickly" sand the primer , prep ,tape and paint , then maybe the cost is where the poster wants to be and would be a "cruise night quality" car,but certainly not a "wow" factor job. Myself , would NEVER touch another bodyguys "ready for paint in primer" job . Been there, done that .

[myk]

In defense of the 'OP, you guys have to understand that he, like many others, just don't know any better when it comes to body work and paint.  After all, unlike common automotive diagnosis and repair, bodywork and paint is more like an art form or a craft than your typical automotive work; rates and cost are consequently very different when it comes time to charge someone and pay.  You guys also have to understand that body work and paint aren't exactly regulated or officially governed.  When someone comes in with an overheating car and needs a new fan clutch, radiator and t-stat, well that's easy!  There are guides and standards that state how many hours a job like that should take and therefore how much to charge.  When a guy rolls up and needs ding repair, prime and paint well....how much the guy is charged is really up to the body and paint people doing the work.

A few years ago I was in the same boat as the 'OP.  My car had the usual minor rust spots on the dutchman panel, tail panel and the lower quarters.  These spots were so small you didn't even notice them unless you walked up to the car.  Also, the car's paint was shot.  I had everything from guys in pickups driving up to me in in parking lots offering to fix the rust and paint the car for $400, Macco's and Earl Schieb's estimating $2-4K, and private body/paint shops quoting me $8K-(?).  If someone doesn't know any better they certainly would think the private body shops were nuts for charging $8K+, especially since the guy in the old Chevy pickup in the parking lot only wants a few hundred dollars.  How is the layman to know any better?  

Thankfully I had DC.com to "sort of" explain it to me.  I say sort of, because when I came on here asking about the HUGE discrepancy in price estimates, a lot of the posters acted pretty snottily to my question, as if they were saying I was a complete moron for even suggesting a few hundred, or even a few thousand for the metal and paint work.  Again I, like the 'OP and a lot of other people didn't or don't know what goes into bodywork and paint.  It's about as mysterious to me and the masses as Eric Clapton's guitar skills are to mine.  Now I'm not trying to defend the OP's reaction to some of the posters, but like I've said many people don't understand what makes up body and paint work, so the best we can do is try to educate and leave it at that; calling people delusional or being otherwise derogatory isn't helping anyone or anything.  Just my five cents...

[Mike DC]

 

That's the longstanding problem with the paint/body industry IMO, for classic cars.  

The right shop gives you top metalwork + top outer work.
The wrong shop gives you (hidden) shoddy metalwork + top outerwork.

But there is no option for buying top metalwork + 20-footer outerwork.  So if you don't want the metalwork botched and seriously hurting your car, then you have to pay for top outer work too.  The combined cost of the job is forced into absolutely huge territory just to avoid leaving your car off worse than it started.




Like I said earlier, it's as if there was no such thing as a good stock rebuild for an engine.  You could either buy 500+ horsepower or get a cut-rate rebuild that doesn't even run right.  Nothing in between.  

[myk]

Exactly.  The custom car industry is a dangerous and expensive maze to navigate.  Who do you trust?  Where do you go to?  There aren't many options for people not in the loop and/or without deep pockets...

[el dub]

You guys are shopping in the wrong spot for a paint job. I got my car done about a year ago for 2900 bucks. plus 1100 for materials. When I was living in Monterey a buddy got his mustang painted for 2 grand. Shop around. Times are tough and people are looking for work. Don't go to a shop that does insurance jobs. A car that is straight, no dings or dents should cost about two thousand dollars, that is including paint. I live in calif which is a high cost area. IF I lived in Kansas I would expect to pay 1500. My next door neighbor had a regal he had painted at Maaco. 400 dollars. His body was straight and the parts that weren't he didn't care about. After they were done they cut and polished his trunk lid. Came out real nice. And this was a black paint job which is harder to paint. Shop around.

[ACUDANUT]

 

[Chargerguy74]

I can send some to you. But I have never mastered the skill to post a picture on here, by myself. I am lucky to actually take pictures with a digital camera and send them successfully.

I'm sure there are several '73/'74 Charger enthusiasts that would love to help you post pics 

[DC_1]

Ask them how they arrive at that number.

Let's says they use $1500 in materials and paint and the shop rate is $75/hr

15,000
-1500
=13,500
/75
=180

So awre they going to spend 180 man ours prepping and painting the car? Are they also putting it back together? If they dedicate 1 man to the car he would be working on it 4 and a half weeks......Seems excessive if there is no rust or body panel replacement

That would be 4.5 WEEKS at 40 hours per week........

Oops!

Fixed it!

[lukedukem]

You guys are shopping in the wrong spot for a paint job. I got my car done about a year ago for 2900 bucks. plus 1100 for materials. When I was living in Monterey a buddy got his mustang painted for 2 grand. Shop around. Times are tough and people are looking for work. Don't go to a shop that does insurance jobs. A car that is straight, no dings or dents should cost about two thousand dollars, that is including paint. I live in calif which is a high cost area. IF I lived in Kansas I would expect to pay 1500. My next door neighbor had a regal he had painted at Maaco. 400 dollars. His body was straight and the parts that weren't he didn't care about. After they were done they cut and polished his trunk lid. Came out real nice. And this was a black paint job which is harder to paint. Shop around.

Same here. My mother just got a quote to repaint her whole 96 extended cab Ford F-150. And to fix the roof where a limb hit it. 3500 bucks. Maybe some see a muscle car coming and think to add a little. Then again, I think it's that saying "you pay for what you get". when her truck is done we will see. The guy also has an old t bird in there too. But maybe he won't be as picky on the truck.

Luke

[Mike DC]

    
Old cars would be $3500 jobs too, if all we had to do was bolt on a few panels & shoot them with cheap paint/materials.  


That's what body shops did with old cars 40 years ago.  All it takes is a solid car + low standards for the result.

[ws23rt]

Painting a car is no different than any other job or task one is looking for.  It's a market place out their and one pays for what one asks for.

I have a 98 Dakoda pu. that is molting it's clear coat. An estimate I got from a good local body shop for paint (without being specific on quality) was $3500. This shop insisted that they would not be interested in giving me a poor quality paint job. I appreciate and understand their position.

I recall a painting estimate for an exotic car in the seventies being 70K. ---of course that was a complete paint restoration that required disassembly of the car.  

So --when we say we want a paint job what is it exactly are we asking??

[67440chrg]

A couple years ago I met a man with a real nice ranchero who removed all his trim and bumpers on a straight body. He took it to Maaco and they put a real nice paint job on it for $2000.00 they called it a classic car special or some sort of thing. It looked real good.

[myk]

It's all up to the painter and the shop.  This is because auto body and paint work is not officially regulated by any established standards...

[Canadian1968]

The Charger has been in primer for 15 years. No trim, nor the vinyl top is still on.  I figured 2K in body/paint prep work and 2K for paint.  In Kansas, that is a lot of money.

In primer for 15 years?
Primer is as porous as a sponge. It soaks up almost everything that gets close to it. The shop would probably have to strip it just to make sure whatever contaminants in there are gone.

Exactly .  It would be a big mistake for them to just take the car and say " oh its in primer lets just paint it ". Then in a couple months you start to see, bubbling , cracking whatever else may happen. Now you are furious and no doubt feel its should be fixed for free.   

Stripping the car down to bare metal again, metal finishing your "small dents" . Then go threw the regular proper steps for a nice job... ok 12K maybe a bit high I will admit but still 8-10K is not out of the question.  Now if you want that mirror like reflection and dead straight panel and lines..... 12K + is what your gonna pay.

I paint for a living in a shop that just recently won top honors for bodyshop in Canada. You pay to be a PITA when the job is done !! If you are going to be that guy that looks over the car for hours inspecting and trying to find a flaw... then don't expect to pay 5K .  Last year I painted the hood for a black Plymouth Prowler the owner was charged $1800 for the single panel, he also spend 45 mins inspecting it when it was done. 

The biggest part when when approaching a job like this is to be very clear that you and the body shop know what you are expecting bottom line.

[birdsandbees]

Where do you work c1968... in the process of sourcing a good shop to strip the 1989 PPG + clear coat job off my '69 Bee and give it a nice renewal. Needs to go to bare metal as it has blistered and lost adhesion in some areas.

[elanmars]

In defense of the 'OP, you guys have to understand that he, like many others, just don't know any better when it comes to body work and paint.  After all, unlike common automotive diagnosis and repair, bodywork and paint is more like an art form or a craft than your typical automotive work; rates and cost are consequently very different when it comes time to charge someone and pay.  You guys also have to understand that body work and paint aren't exactly regulated or officially governed.  When someone comes in with an overheating car and needs a new fan clutch, radiator and t-stat, well that's easy!  There are guides and standards that state how many hours a job like that should take and therefore how much to charge.  When a guy rolls up and needs ding repair, prime and paint well....how much the guy is charged is really up to the body and paint people doing the work.

A few years ago I was in the same boat as the 'OP.  My car had the usual minor rust spots on the dutchman panel, tail panel and the lower quarters.  These spots were so small you didn't even notice them unless you walked up to the car.  Also, the car's paint was shot.  I had everything from guys in pickups driving up to me in in parking lots offering to fix the rust and paint the car for $400, Macco's and Earl Schieb's estimating $2-4K, and private body/paint shops quoting me $8K-(?).  If someone doesn't know any better they certainly would think the private body shops were nuts for charging $8K+, especially since the guy in the old Chevy pickup in the parking lot only wants a few hundred dollars.  How is the layman to know any better?  

Thankfully I had DC.com to "sort of" explain it to me.  I say sort of, because when I came on here asking about the HUGE discrepancy in price estimates, a lot of the posters acted pretty snottily to my question, as if they were saying I was a complete moron for even suggesting a few hundred, or even a few thousand for the metal and paint work.  Again I, like the 'OP and a lot of other people didn't or don't know what goes into bodywork and paint.  It's about as mysterious to me and the masses as Eric Clapton's guitar skills are to mine.  Now I'm not trying to defend the OP's reaction to some of the posters, but like I've said many people don't understand what makes up body and paint work, so the best we can do is try to educate and leave it at that; calling people delusional or being otherwise derogatory isn't helping anyone or anything.  Just my five cents...

How much did it cost you to get your car painted? Just curious.

[Canadian1968]

Where do you work c1968... in the process of sourcing a good shop to strip the 1989 PPG + clear coat job off my '69 Bee and give it a nice renewal. Needs to go to bare metal as it has blistered and lost adhesion in some areas.

I work for a shop in London ON, we are mainly a collision repair center we do little custom / restoration work . A job such as yours deserves a dedicated restoration / hot rod shop !

[birdsandbees]

Thanks for the honest reply!

[johnnycharger]

You guys are shopping in the wrong spot for a paint job. I got my car done about a year ago for 2900 bucks. plus 1100 for materials. When I was living in Monterey a buddy got his mustang painted for 2 grand. Shop around. Times are tough and people are looking for work. Don't go to a shop that does insurance jobs. A car that is straight, no dings or dents should cost about two thousand dollars, that is including paint. I live in calif which is a high cost area. IF I lived in Kansas I would expect to pay 1500. My next door neighbor had a regal he had painted at Maaco. 400 dollars. His body was straight and the parts that weren't he didn't care about. After they were done they cut and polished his trunk lid. Came out real nice. And this was a black paint job which is harder to paint. Shop around.

Hey El Dub
Where do you recommend going for a quality paint job in Nor Cal that won't break the bank?

[hemi-hampton]

I like when people say the price of paint or restoration to much & say I'll do it myself out of my garage. Then 5 or 10 years later after putting 2 or 3,000 hours work into it & many many thousands of dollars into it they are still not done & now realize it was tougher & more time then they thought. Then they might figure, Gee, I could of bought one done cheaper then this. Next thing you know there car is on ebay as a half finished project. LEON.

[el dub]

You guys are shopping in the wrong spot for a paint job. I got my car done about a year ago for 2900 bucks. plus 1100 for materials. When I was living in Monterey a buddy got his mustang painted for 2 grand. Shop around. Times are tough and people are looking for work. Don't go to a shop that does insurance jobs. A car that is straight, no dings or dents should cost about two thousand dollars, that is including paint. I live in calif which is a high cost area. IF I lived in Kansas I would expect to pay 1500. My next door neighbor had a regal he had painted at Maaco. 400 dollars. His body was straight and the parts that weren't he didn't care about. After they were done they cut and polished his trunk lid. Came out real nice. And this was a black paint job which is harder to paint. Shop around.

Hey El Dub
Where do you recommend going for a quality paint job in Nor Cal that won't break the bank?

sent you a pm

[cdr]

I like when people say the price of paint or restoration to much & say I'll do it myself out of my garage. Then 5 or 10 years later after putting 2 or 3,000 hours work into it & many many thousands of dollars into it they are still not done & now realize it was tougher & more time then they thought. Then they might figure, Gee, I could of bought one done cheaper then this. Next thing you know there car is on ebay as a half finished project. LEON.

SO TRUE !!!!!!!!   

[Patronus]

Kinda just jumping in here, but there's a big difference between a "paint job" and a complete body working. As in every radius, every gap, every facet, every wrinkle, every etc. A scratch n' shoot is nothing. Some cars take years of body work. Sometimes years and years.

[Todd Wilson]

There are shops out there that do not want to do resto work. They only want to do the daily driver repairs.   Also some shops have a reputation that they want to keep and they simply do not or wont paint a car unless they can do all the work involved.  Some shops and private paint and body people I know only will do a high end job and that's it.  They don't want to spray 3000$ worth of paint on some car and have it look ok or soso with some flaws and then have the car owner say so and so painted my car to various people. It gives a bad reputation out to those that are doing high end restoration work.


Todd

[Brock Lee]

Many of the shops that are properly set up and experienced are choosing to do insurance work. Getting them to work on an old car, especially one where they have to tweak existing panels versus replacing with freshly stamped parts, is like pulling teeth. They are more than happy to fix bumpers all day than take on an old car that requires more hands on labor and ends up not bringing in the same amount of cash for that labor as the insurance work.

[el dub]

Have you ever noticed the paint jobs on the lowriders our border brothers ride around in. They are not painted in custom shops. They cant afford it so go look to where they get their paint jobs. There are decent priced paint jobs out there.
  If your doing a full on resto and want a perfect paint job you will pay more for that. And you will probably get what you paid for. But then you wont be able to drive your car around.

[myk]

Good point.  Say what you will about the Lowrider crowd but some of the paint and body work on those cars is so intricate and detailed yet many of them didn't pay tens of thousands like you would think they would, based on this thread.  I'd be curious to see how long the paint holds up, though...

[Brock Lee]

Um, you think lowriders are cheap? Price out a hydraulic setup sometime.

The Cholo's have the right idea with this. They have lowrider communities. Within these communities are painters, metal workers, upholsterers, mechanics, etc. They will barter with others within the communities to get stuff done. I knew a body shop owner that allowed one of his employees to use the shop at night in trade for off the clock labor. Quite a few lowriders were painted in that shop that I had seen. All at night, off the books.

[myk]

Um, you think lowriders are cheap? Price out a hydraulic setup sometime.

The Cholo's have the right idea with this. They have lowrider communities. Within these communities are painters, metal workers, upholsterers, mechanics, etc. They will barter with others within the communities to get stuff done. I knew a body shop owner that allowed one of his employees to use the shop at night in trade for off the clock labor. Quite a few lowriders were painted in that shop that I had seen. All at night, off the books.

Never said anything about their cars, I was talking about their paint and bodywork; they're not paying Hemi concourse de 'elegance prices.  AND.....just like their north of the border counterparts they're running a similar operation: they charge as much as they feel like charging based on their own assessment of the work involved.  Body and paint isn't officially regulated so it's a game of "whatever."

[Lord Warlock]

It seems paint jobs have skyrocketed in price over the past 20 years.  I remember having basic full car paint jobs with no color change, just respray that cost me 1500 back in the late 80s, and it was pretty good, looked great to the casual observer, wouldn't win any pro shows though.  Then in the mid 90s had my wife's car painted for 1200 at a friends shop who did it under the table after hours, liked it so much I paid him 2500 to do my dodge stealth after someone backed into my nose.  In the late 90s I no longer had the option of the shop that did it previously, and took it around for estimates and got several estimates between 5k and 8k for a full respray.  This is when I started balking on figuring out how to pay for the paint job on my charger. 

In 2003, I decided to use my stealth as a canvas and taught myself how to paint cars over a 10 year time frame, got pretty good at it, enough so that neighbors kept asking me to do their cars, but I learned there is no such thing as a cheap paint job when doing it for other people, I repainted the hood roof and trunk of a neighbors camry for about 500 bucks as a favor for a neighbor, didn't come close to breaking even on time spent.  I easily spent 100 hours color sanding and buffing the paint back out so he would be pleased with the job.  Probably a good thing, since he is STILL a neighbor and we still get along, AND he still has that ugly camry in his garage, doesn't use it, but its still there, and the paint is still holding up 10 years later.

When I finally started painting my charger, I stripped the body to bare metal to make sure there was no rot underneath (had original paint on it back then) and did find previous body work on the front fender that I never knew was there before.  Had front and rear glass removed, took out the grill, and all trim, fixed the body imperfections that were obvious to me, and eventually sprayed it with single stage polyurethane enamel .  Problem I had was after spending a decade getting decent at painting, and buffing paint out as I can't stand seeing orange peel I somehow had become so anal about paint work that I wasn't satisfied with just coating the car, it had to look great, and the one spot on the fender that had been repaired in the 70s I never could get a wave free result on it, it would look great to 99% of the observers, but there would always be that one guy that would comment and drive me nuts so I wasted almost 4 years on that one fender, redoing it over and over, would look great during primer but when I did the color/clear stage slight waves would appear that I couldn't see when in primer, or with guide coats.  I took the fender off, and worked on just it for a while, and even contemplated replacing it with AMD metal, but eventually came to the conclusion that perfection wasn't worth delaying the completion of the car any longer, and would take it to a real shop to redo after I finished the rest. 

Now the car is painted, looks very good even to me, but is still far from perfect, but if  I don't start enjoying the car I never will get to enjoy it again.  Think I've come to the conclusion that 99.9% won't care if the car has minor paint imperfections, the body is straight, no dents no dings and would look great from 3 feet away.  I don't even intend to enter it in any shows, just use it as a cruiser.  If I tallied all the hours I worked on paint on this car, it'd easily cross 400 to 500 hours.  And I still have some cutting and buffing to do once the car drives out under its own power again. 

Don't sweat spending a good amount on a quality paint job, expect 5k to 8k as a minimum, for a shop trying to earn its chops, and 10-15k for a restoration shop.  If you happen to have a friend who has his own shop, you may squeak out a sub 5k job, but these are getting much harder to find these days.

[GreenMachine]

Are these prices for a completely assembled car? Or does it even matter.

I would never take a classic car to be painted without removing the trim, bumpers, grill, side markers, door handles, door sills, locks, etc. myself. I took a car that I just wanted as a cheap driver to a shop with most everything removed except lights. I've heard a lot of people say the body shop lost parts of their car, so I don't want to give them anything they would have to remove and potentially lose. They still lost my fender tag, I had taken a screw out and bent it up so they could paint both sides like the factory did, but forgot to explain that to them. They also filled in the hole where the pentastar goes. I'd hate to think what else would be missing or screwed up if I didn't remove most everything myself.

I paid for supplies (with their shop discount) and $1,800 labor. Total was around $2,800, the paint was PPG Omni. The labor also included replacing the lower quarter behind the left rear wheel well, some large hail dents (one baseball size), and some small dents and dings.

The quality was more than what I expected, however they missed a couple of small hail dents, a small spot on the roof didn't get full color, and a drip on the drivers fender. This was about 5 years ago.

When my Charger is ready to go to the paint shop, the only thing that will be on the bare shell will be doors, fenders, hood, and trunk lid.

[Lord Warlock]

The more you leave on, the bigger the chances that something will go missing or get painted over that shouldn't be.  Best to remove it all ahead of time and just let them paint the body shell if you can.  Unfortunately, not many of us plan on disassembling a car completely before painting.  Yes of course remove emblems, lights, reflectors etc.  But even I didn't remove the doors and hood to paint separately as I would expect if I was having a 10k paint job done.  

Spending 1k on materials is pretty cheap, I almost always end up spending more than  that on primer, Base coats, clears, reducers, activators, sand papers, buffing wheels etc.  

[timmycharger]

I have nothing but respect to those who do bodywork for a living, it is truly an art.   I came to the conclusion years ago that I could not afford to have someone do the bodywork and paint on my Charger so I went the do it yourself route. Yes I made mistakes and yes there were things I wish I did differently, but if you have the space to do it and the patience, I beleive its possible to tackle.

I did mine in stages, welding panels, rust repair, then painting jams, engine bay and trunk, and now Ive got my winter all planned out to finish the final bodywork and spray it in my garage in the spring/early summer.

I live in Massachusetts and I got 3 quotes on my car a few years ago and they ranged from 8 -15k, with all the rust repair done by me. I didnt think it was too outrageous as in the late 90's my brother paid about 7k for the paint on his Dart with some bodywork.

Im not delusional about body shop prices or expectations, I just dont have the money to spend to have someone else handle it.  Im probably looking at an easy 100hrs + over this winter to get the body as straight as I can, but im up for the challenge!!!

[Mike DC]

It seems paint jobs have skyrocketed in price over the past 20 years.

The materials skyrocketed.  

The labor prices didn't skyrocket but they went up some, particularly for skilled people.  The regular body shop industry no longer creates a steady supply of guys familiar with muscle-era vehicles and skilled at fixing (rather than swapping) parts.  It's not their fault they live in different times but it's a factor for us now.

The amount of work the average muscle car needs has skyrocketed.  Rustier cars getting fixed, more repro panels & previous bad repairs to cope with, etc.  

Our expectations for the finished product went up too.  

[Kern Dog]

"Now the car is painted, looks very good even to me, but is still far from perfect, but if  I don't start enjoying the car I never will get to enjoy it again.  Think I've come to the conclusion that 99.9% won't care if the car has minor paint imperfections, the body is straight, no dents no dings and would look great from 3 feet away".


Well put. You just enjoy the car and to heck with what some a-hole jerk has to say about it.

[charge69]

Well 99.9% of the people probably would not even see the paint imperfections and those that do, they are looking too close at your car! Anyone that looks that close at your car must have an "agenda" that starts with "I wish I had a Charger!" 

Get someone to help you with the mechanicals left to do and get out and enjoy your Charger!  It is beautiful and you need to be driving it!

[daveco]

I am beginning to understand why the Rat Rod look has become popular.

[myk]

Well 99.9% of the people probably would not even see the paint imperfections and those that do, they are looking too close at your car! Anyone that looks that close at your car must have an "agenda" that starts with "I wish I had a Charger!" 

Get someone to help you with the mechanicals left to do and get out and enjoy your Charger!  It is beautiful and you need to be driving it!

Excellent point there.  Most of the people that see my car can't stop telling me how perfect it is, especially the paint!  But from three feet away or so I can already see the glaring imperfections...

[ws23rt]

I'm very much an amateur car painter.  I painted two cars in my garage and was learning every step of the way.
What this experience gave me were two eye openers.
1. I understand the value of experience.
2. My eye is now tuned into things most would seldom see in a paint job unless they were pointed out.

When I go to car shows or local gatherings for the most part the cars have 5' paint jobs to me. I suspect the general public may think them as being 2' paint jobs. If something catches my eye as exceptional it draws me in (out of curiosity) to 1'--Any closer and I have to put on reading glasses-- At this point I am looking close in admiration of the paint with a different eye (perhaps) than the general public.

I'm sure that no matter how good a paint job is, the painter knows where the flaws are and why.

A delusional customer would be one that thinks flawless is obtainable and may argue about a perfect area and ask why every sq inch is not the same.

I recall waiting to talk to a body shop guy in the 70's   He was trying to take care of a customer ahead of me with a one year old Cadillac. They were on their knees with different kind of lighting from different angles trying to see something the customer wanted fixed.  I was close by watching this and could see nothing wrong myself. Eventually the body shop guy said ok --I see it now--   After that customer left the shop owner (having been aware of my interest) asked me to get closer for my opinion. I honestly could not see anything different than the rest of the car.

I never knew how that story played out but if I was the body shop guy I would be afraid to do anything to that panel.   IMO it's time for the placebo fix.

[Canadian1968]

I'm very much an amateur car painter.  I painted two cars in my garage and was learning every step of the way.
What this experience gave me were two eye openers.
1. I understand the value of experience.
2. My eye is now tuned into things most would seldom see in a paint job unless they were pointed out.

When I go to car shows or local gatherings for the most part the cars have 5' paint jobs to me. I suspect the general public may think them as being 2' paint jobs. If something catches my eye as exceptional it draws me in (out of curiosity) to 1'--Any closer and I have to put on reading glasses-- At this point I am looking close in admiration of the paint with a different eye (perhaps) than the general public.

I'm sure that no matter how good a paint job is, the painter knows where the flaws are and why.



A delusional customer would be one that thinks flawless is obtainable and may argue about a perfect area and ask why every sq inch is not the same.

I recall waiting to talk to a body shop guy in the 70's   He was trying to take care of a customer ahead of me with a one year old Cadillac. They were on their knees with different kind of lighting from different angles trying to see something the customer wanted fixed.  I was close by watching this and could see nothing wrong myself. Eventually the body shop guy said ok --I see it now--   After that customer left the shop owner (having been aware of my interest) asked me to get closer for my opinion. I honestly could not see anything different than the rest of the car.

I never knew how that story played out but if I was the body shop guy I would be afraid to do anything to that panel.   IMO it's time for the placebo fix.

Have to deal with them every day.

I obviously look at cars a bit different myself being a painter. At car shows I will see, runs, fish eyes, buffing marks ect ect. If I am with a friend I point them out sometimes. Then I ask myself why am I looking this close for these imperfections, I am no better than that customer I had last week.......... But what it is, is a reality check for myself, even these " show cars" aren't perfect !.

[hemi-hampton]

"I recall waiting to talk to a body shop guy in the 70's   He was trying to take care of a customer ahead of me with a one year old Cadillac. They were on their knees with different kind of lighting from different angles trying to see something the customer wanted fixed.  I was close by watching this and could see nothing wrong myself. Eventually the body shop guy said ok --I see it now--   After that customer left the shop owner (having been aware of my interest) asked me to get closer for my opinion. I honestly could not see anything different than the rest of the car."


This sounds like all the Customers I get.

[myk]

Dude, orange peel and fish eyes are par for the course for me lol...

[1974dodgecharger]

im  to MAACOO!!!!

[Homerr]

Show paint jobs are nothing but stress and a pain in the ass to clean if you like to drive your classic.

I will purposely get a mediocre paint job and pay less for it.

[Rolling_Thunder]

When I got my charger painted a few years back I paid I think $5,500...   that was finishing up and smoothing my chopped drip rails, firewall, lizard skin the trunk, undercarriage, strip the old paint to metal, prime, block, prime, block, base, clear, cut, buff.....       

I know things have changed a lot in the past few years, but this shop was also in SoCal - where prices are usually top shelf...       maybe I just got a screaming good deal ?

[ws23rt]

It may be true that we are all delusional about prices and values wherever we turn.

The value of money goes down relentlessly and the next time we are ready to spend for something we just grew accustom to-- we are hit with that fact.

I believe the big picture is competition for quality and price is alive and well. Perhaps now more than the past with better and quicker references. If prices are too high than shopping is not over with.

(Whenever I rant or otherwise speak on something like this it is a way to talk to myself as I type or speak. We need to listen to our instincts and question where the questions come from.)

I get that those in the business of body work and paint have a clear understanding about delusional customers.  It's up to the consumer as to how they will be recieved and dealt with.

If that is something one feels uncomfortable with then perhaps ask your mom to take your car in for an estimate.