New TrickFlow 240 heads

[303 Mopar]

In looking at aluminum heads for my 440 I was pretty much sold on the 440 stealths.  Now TrickFlow announced their new 240 heads that already come CNC ported with some great flow numbers compared to the stealths.  On Summit's site it says they ship in October.

TF's are 78cc and stealths are "as cast" wedge and around 80cc chamber.  TF intake is 2.19" and stealth=2.14". They are double the price of the 440's but come CNC porting already, which makes it almost a wash.  They should be direct swap for my 906 iron heads, with heart shaped chambers & 78 cc should make great power on paper anyway.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/brand/trick-flow-specialties/part-type/cylinder-heads/make/chrysler/engine-size/7-2l-440/engine-family/mopar-big-block-rb/product-line/trick-flow-powerport-240-cylinder-heads-for-big-block-mopar?autoview=SKU&sortby=Default&sortorder=Ascending

http://bangshift.com/general-news/new-products/sema-2014-trick-flow-introduces-new-power-port-240-big-block-chrysler-cylinder-heads-new-option-wedge/

http://www.trickflow.com/pressreleases/powerport240cylinder

[c00nhunterjoe]

Trick flow has always been a great performer on the fords and for years that i ran them, i always said one day they will crossover to chrysler. That day has come and i cant wait to see some 3rd party tests on these heads. From what i gather, they took a little bit from everyones changes over the years and added a touch of their own engineering. That should come up with a pretty badass head.

[BSB67]

I'm not sure if there was a question in there or not.

TF does real engineering, and is well respected for a quality product, as I heard it.  If it is the right choice for you depends on what you want and your budget.  If you are not looking for a bunch of power, and you are on a budget, the Stealth or Sidewinders might be perfect for you..  If you we're thinking of Stealths, and having them ported, and new springs, retainers and keepers, and 10 hp matters to you, then probably look real close at the TF.

If I was in the market and the TF was in my budget constraints, that is what I would get without thinking twice.

It will probably be a year before you will get real experience, on-point feed back from anyone

[RIDELIKEHELL]

BIG SUGAR aka Ron is getting a set I believe 

[recon68]

Im curious i got a 440 to 500 stroker with the factory iron heads in my 68 charger. Can i put these heads on my engine?

[Challenger340]

They will be interesting, Trick Flow historically builds real shiat ?

I will be curious to see how they address many issues on the typical "stock" type BB mopar head pattern ?
and working around:
*  std pushrod pinch on the one side for std Rockers .... over to the port divider on the other side with Rocker Oiling Hole contained therein.
*  V/Spring seat pocket intrusion on the roof
* limited floor before a water jacket for port divergent angle... versus the roof.

Many other brands have attempted changes to the "std pattern" with limited success.... but without actually moving one or more of the heads intrinsic parameters, there are only so many ways to "skin a cat" so to speak ?
You can't move the pushrod "pinch" without changing Rockers ?
You can move the siamese port divider without changing intakes or Rocker Oiling ?
You can't add more bowl volume without raising the roof and V/Spring pocket... again Rockers / V/covers ?

I highly suspect the new trick Flow will be a souped up version of max ported Eddy's... albeit, with newer chamber tech to assist scavenging.
I am ordering a new Superflow750 FlowCom Bench very soon.... should be interesting to get up and hissing. 

[cdr]

quote
I am ordering a new Superflow750 FlowCom Bench very soon.... should be interesting to get up and hissing.

thats cool Bob !!!!

[WHITE AND RED 69]

I am planning on getting a set next month but I think I'll wait for the feedback on these first. Hopefully they turn out great.

[pipeliner]

One thing I dont like about these heads is that they use Ti retainers with steel dampers. From what I've read that guys that had run this set up in the past is that the steel dampers cut in to the Ti retainers. So the fix to this is to use the chromoly steel retainers. Why would you sell a head with this set up if this is the case?

[BSB67]

Right. But the Ti retainer is an option, not standard

[Challenger340]

One thing I dont like about these heads is that they use Ti retainers with steel dampers. From what I've read that guys that had run this set up in the past is that the steel dampers cut in to the Ti retainers. So the fix to this is to use the chromoly steel retainers. Why would you sell a head with this set up if this is the case?

As stated, I think the Ti Retainers are an "option" only ? with Steel as the "std" delivered.

Nonetheless,
any experience I have had with Spring dampers cutting into Ti Retainers was proportional to people pushing the.... or "compromised" spring slew rate @ rpm ?
Think of it as "bounce" or harmonics, where.... if there is evidence of the damper damaging the Ti retainer ?, I take it as symptomatic and start hunting V/train stability from tip geometry to actual rate per inch gone-away ?

I've seen LOTS of Ti retainers that come back in on Engines for "freshening" after a couple of years, and running 325-350# seat pressure Drag Roller Cams @ 800" lift... without a mark on them !..... and others... well, let's just say there are owners not so diligent in thermally stabilizing, staying on top of...  or running their stuff ?

[pipeliner]

Ok that's one thing I needed to get cleared up. So they do come with chromoly steel retainers? I'm going to call TF again tomorrow to make sure. I'll be running a 232-238 grind 514/532 hyd. Cam and they told me to run the heads with 120# spring. I was just told to call my cam guy to make sure I won't have to take off the inner spring for break in.

[heyoldguy]

I guess we'll know more about them on Tuesday when the first pair arrive here at the shop.

[c00nhunterjoe]

 

I guess we'll know more about them on Tuesday when the first pair arrive here at the shop.

[pipeliner]

I'm probably going to buy a set of these and I hope by the time my machinist gets to the top end there will be a few people on here or somewhere have already done a few different combo builds with dyno results. I'm goin for a street car so I'm using a dual plane intake, 850 quickfuel, Ross pistons, 514/532 hyd. Cam. I'm just curious about the HP that TF is claiming, 620 HP is a bunch. I did call them again and yes the TI is an option and told them about my build and they told me I should easily break the 550 HP and wouldn't be surprised if I got 570 HP out of that build. I couldn't imagine getting that much HP out of a 30 over 440 10.1 440 street car. Are these heads going to be that good? I'm lost on this one.

[heyoldguy]

I'm probably going to buy a set of these and I hope by the time my machinist gets to the top end there will be a few people on here or somewhere have already done a few different combo builds with dyno results. I'm goin for a street car so I'm using a dual plane intake, 850 quickfuel, Ross pistons, 514/532 hyd. Cam. I'm just curious about the HP that TF is claiming, 620 HP is a bunch. I did call them again and yes the TI is an option and told them about my build and they told me I should easily break the 550 HP and wouldn't be surprised if I got 570 HP out of that build. I couldn't imagine getting that much HP out of a 30 over 440 10.1 440 street car. Are these heads going to be that good? I'm lost on this one.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,106687.50.html

Let me just refer you to the dyno sheet on the page above.

We just built a similar .030 over 440 engine, same cam, intake, heads and a 750 cfm ProForm carb. The heads had nothing done but a valve job and the rough cuts in the ports blended. 543 lb-ft and 520 HP. Yep I think the TrickFlow heads can do it.

[Challenger340]

I guess we'll know more about them on Tuesday when the first pair arrive here at the shop.

That'll be very cool Jim !

I just can't think of a more reputable guy to do a professional assessment on these new heads than YOU, keep us posted as time permits will ya ?
(I am currently bench-less and waiting... LOL !)  

[pipeliner]

I'm probably going to buy a set of these and I hope by the time my machinist gets to the top end there will be a few people on here or somewhere have already done a few different combo builds with dyno results. I'm goin for a street car so I'm using a dual plane intake, 850 quickfuel, Ross pistons, 514/532 hyd. Cam. I'm just curious about the HP that TF is claiming, 620 HP is a bunch. I did call them again and yes the TI is an option and told them about my build and they told me I should easily break the 550 HP and wouldn't be surprised if I got 570 HP out of that build. I couldn't imagine getting that much HP out of a 30 over 440 10.1 440 street car. Are these heads going to be that good? I'm lost on this one.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,106687.50.html

Let me just refer you to the dyno sheet on the page above.

We just built a similar .030 over 440 engine, same cam, intake, heads and a 750 cfm ProForm carb. The heads had nothing done but a valve job and the rough cuts in the ports blended. 543 lb-ft and 520 HP. Yep I think the TrickFlow heads can do it.

Wow! Man I'm pumped. Can't wait till you guys get ahold of these heads.

[heyoldguy]

Wow, this is a head. All new tall casting, fully CNC ported and it appears to flow as advertised.

Measuring the actual valve length is difficult for me, I kind of fumble around with it, but I get them around 5.410", a bunch longer than stock. Nail head intake valve and semi tulip exhaust.

Head face to rocker shaft saddle is .600" taller than the stock iron head or the Edelbrock RPM head so you will need longer pushrods.

Exhaust and intake manifold locations are stock.

The valve cover rail is taller also, and you're going to have another 1/16" extra clearance under the valve covers vs the RPM head.

I measure the valve spring installed height at 1.930"-1.935"

This is really a beautiful head, but still not ready OOTB, as the intake and exhaust ports have loose aluminum particles in them that you can wipe out with your finger. But that is the only flaw I've found so far........they just aren't clean.

[303 Mopar]

Wow, this is a head. All new tall casting, fully CNC ported and it appears to flow as advertised.

Measuring the actual valve length is difficult for me, I kind of fumble around with it, but I get them around 5.410", a bunch longer than stock. Nail head intake valve and semi tulip exhaust.

Head face to rocker shaft saddle is .600" taller than the stock iron head or the Edelbrock RPM head so you will need longer pushrods.

Exhaust and intake manifold locations are stock.

The valve cover rail is taller also, and you're going to have another 1/16" extra clearance under the valve covers vs the RPM head.

I measure the valve spring installed height at 1.930"-1.935"

This is really a beautiful head, but still not ready OOTB, as the intake and exhaust ports have loose aluminum particles in them that you can wipe out with your finger. But that is the only flaw I've found so far........they just aren't clean.

Sounds awesome!  Post pics and videos please!   

[1974dodgecharger]

wonder if it be worthwile upgrade over my edelbrock rpm heads....

[WHITE AND RED 69]

wonder if it be worthwile upgrade over my edelbrock rpm heads....

Why not just get them ported?

[1974dodgecharger]

wonder if it be worthwile upgrade over my edelbrock rpm heads....

Why not just get them ported?

too long of a down time, lol....my only car so I need it up and running constantly 

[Slider]

Watching this thread closely. In the market for new heads and was almost sold on the 440 stealths doing my own port and polish. With the TRs already done with the upgrades built in this sounds like a much better way to go as long as they are still at a reasonable price. Anyone get them on a dyno'ed engine yet? Love to see some real world numbers with decent cam/rocker and intake setup.

[GPULLER]

 

[BSB67]

Watching this thread closely. In the market for new heads and was almost sold on the 440 stealths doing my own port and polish. With the TRs already done with the upgrades built in this sounds like a much better way to go as long as they are still at a reasonable price. Anyone get them on a dyno'ed engine yet? Love to see some real world numbers with decent cam/rocker and intake setup.

If you were going to do the "port and polish" yourself, I suspect that you could very well ruin a good pair of heads.  Get the TF, or have a professional do the Stealths, if you need the power, and the heads are limiting.

[heyoldguy]

I guess we'll know more about them on Tuesday when the first pair arrive here at the shop.

That'll be very cool Jim !

I just can't think of a more reputable guy to do a professional assessment on these new heads than YOU, keep us posted as time permits will ya ?
(I am currently bench-less and waiting... LOL !)  

Thank you, you have always been kind, but dealing with these heads has left a bad taste in my mouth. Not because of the heads, they are an excellent product, but because of some of the attacks I've faced on other websites. If you get a different result than their buddy or head porter you must be cheating or lying. I'm tired of racing flowbenches. I guess it's fear that I have discovered something they haven't. I think I'm about done reporting airflow results I get on cylinder heads and just let engine results speak for themselves. Of course then my dyno won't be to their liking. As soon as I can calm down I'll have some more information on the heads.

[GPULLER]

I guess we'll know more about them on Tuesday when the first pair arrive here at the shop.

That'll be very cool Jim !

I just can't think of a more reputable guy to do a professional assessment on these new heads than YOU, keep us posted as time permits will ya ?
(I am currently bench-less and waiting... LOL !)  

Thank you, you have always been kind, but dealing with these heads has left a bad taste in my mouth. Not because of the heads, they are an excellent product, but because of some of the attacks I've faced on other websites. If you get a different result than their buddy or head porter you must be cheating or lying. I'm tired of racing flowbenches. I guess it's fear that I have discovered something they haven't. I think I'm about done reporting airflow results I get on cylinder heads and just let engine results speak for themselves. Of course then my dyno won't be to their liking. As soon as I can calm down I'll have some more information on the heads.

As soon as you calm down get those TF's on your low comp test mule so we can get some power numbers.   

[ChargerST]

Hello Jim,
I've always enjoyed reading your posts! I saw the thread you're talking about and it seems like it's just people who don't have a proven track record who complain. Personally I don't care about absolute flow numbers but I do care about the relative differences between heads. Don't be bothered by some jack..... and keep up your great work!  

[XH29N0G]

I imagine there are others (like me) who appreciate seeing the information.  Thanks for the reports so far.

[Brass]

I imagine there are others (like me) who appreciate seeing the information.  Thanks for the reports so far.

X2.   

[heyoldguy]

Now this is going to be fun. We are building two pump gas stock stroke 440s. One with Trick Flow heads and a street solid roller and another with Edelbrock Victor heads and a custom solid flat tappet. I will try to keep you posted.

[XH29N0G]

Thanks, I will be interested to see the results.   

[Challenger340]

I guess we'll know more about them on Tuesday when the first pair arrive here at the shop.

That'll be very cool Jim !

I just can't think of a more reputable guy to do a professional assessment on these new heads than YOU, keep us posted as time permits will ya ?
(I am currently bench-less and waiting... LOL !)  

Thank you, you have always been kind, but dealing with these heads has left a bad taste in my mouth. Not because of the heads, they are an excellent product, but because of some of the attacks I've faced on other websites. If you get a different result than their buddy or head porter you must be cheating or lying. I'm tired of racing flowbenches. I guess it's fear that I have discovered something they haven't. I think I'm about done reporting airflow results I get on cylinder heads and just let engine results speak for themselves. Of course then my dyno won't be to their liking. As soon as I can calm down I'll have some more information on the heads.

I quit discussing Flow numbers on the internet a looong time ago for 2 reasons ?
1.) Wanna see supposedly smart enough car guys to be involved in a thermodynamics discussion instantly turn into penis-heads ?
just post up a 2nd set of Flow Numbers...... GAME ON !
2.) back in the day.... we were using an 8-71 Blower powered by a 10hp 3 ph motor off a VFD, BIG surge tank to dampen the PD pump pulse, loooong runs to straighten before the orifice plate(changeable for sensitivity to small changes in the range we were targeting) then to the inclined and vertical manos.
Think THAT, and THOSE numbers we posted didn't cause some "controversy" ?

We later moved into the industry "standard" SF systems .... they work(with deficiencies to R & D),....  but as we all know THOSE numbers will also change(same as any bench WILL change) even on the SAME head according to differing test parameters ?

Long story short..... IMO
a Flowbench is just a "tool" to measure up or down. The only correlation from ANY Flow to anything else in my books, is the Dyno results that particular builder see's on his Dyno from his Flow Bench work ?

Nonetheless, IMO
it is always nice to read Flow test results/numbers from reputable/proven Engine Builders..... rather than dorks with a bench that never built/tested anything in their lives ? and merely race "benches" from a keyboard in their mom's basement !
just say'in.....
arguing over the internet with idiots just brings a guy DOWN to their level ?

Sorry for the rant Jim... just surprised a guy your stature would even listen to that garbage !
All I DO KNOW....
is I think people here, would appreciate ANY tests/assessments you would be willing to share on the new TF240 heads.

Bob @ rmp  

[BIGBLCK11]

...All I DO KNOW....
is I think people here, would appreciate ANY tests/assessments you would be willing to share on the new TF240 heads.

Bob @ rmp  

  Always interested in your posts!  

[heyoldguy]

I guess we'll know more about them on Tuesday when the first pair arrive here at the shop.

That'll be very cool Jim !

I just can't think of a more reputable guy to do a professional assessment on these new heads than YOU, keep us posted as time permits will ya ?
(I am currently bench-less and waiting... LOL !)  

Thank you, you have always been kind, but dealing with these heads has left a bad taste in my mouth. Not because of the heads, they are an excellent product, but because of some of the attacks I've faced on other websites. If you get a different result than their buddy or head porter you must be cheating or lying. I'm tired of racing flowbenches. I guess it's fear that I have discovered something they haven't. I think I'm about done reporting airflow results I get on cylinder heads and just let engine results speak for themselves. Of course then my dyno won't be to their liking. As soon as I can calm down I'll have some more information on the heads.

I quit discussing Flow numbers on the internet a looong time ago for 2 reasons ?
1.) Wanna see supposedly smart enough car guys to be involved in a thermodynamics discussion instantly turn into penis-heads ?
just post up a 2nd set of Flow Numbers...... GAME ON !
2.) back in the day.... we were using an 8-71 Blower powered by a 10hp 3 ph motor off a VFD, BIG surge tank to dampen the PD pump pulse, loooong runs to straighten before the orifice plate(changeable for sensitivity to small changes in the range we were targeting) then to the inclined and vertical manos.
Think THAT, and THOSE numbers we posted didn't cause some "controversy" ?

We later moved into the industry "standard" SF systems .... they work(with deficiencies to R & D),....  but as we all know THOSE numbers will also change(same as any bench WILL change) even on the SAME head according to differing test parameters ?

Long story short..... IMO
a Flowbench is just a "tool" to measure up or down. The only correlation from ANY Flow to anything else in my books, is the Dyno results that particular builder see's on his Dyno from his Flow Bench work ?

Nonetheless, IMO
it is always nice to read Flow test results/numbers from reputable/proven Engine Builders..... rather than dorks with a bench that never built/tested anything in their lives ? and merely race "benches" from a keyboard in their mom's basement !
just say'in.....
arguing over the internet with idiots just brings a guy DOWN to their level ?

Sorry for the rant Jim... just surprised a guy your stature would even listen to that garbage !
All I DO KNOW....
is I think people here, would appreciate ANY tests/assessments you would be willing to share on the new TF240 heads.

Bob @ rmp  

Pride, I let my pride get the best of me this time.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I like to see flow bench data as a before and after, much like dyno results. It is a good tool to show YOUR improvements. I gave up caring what other people think long ago.