Oil filter 440/6

[boss429kiwi]

Hi

My shop insisted the correct replacement oil filter should be Fram TG42, which is the short stumpy filter, however the filter on the car is the longer PH8A and is the same as my 428CJ.

Does it matter? Running the shorter filter?

Cheers
Gary

[daveco]

PH8A is correct. Can't imagine how they are coming up with TG42.

I tried looking up the specs on a TG42 but could not find such a filter in the Fram spec book (available in .pdf on their website).

[nascarxx29]

PH 8A long filter is correct  And fram also had a PH43 mopar applications but a shorter filter            

never heard of TG 42 I assume fram line tough guard series

[Mopar Nut]

Wix 51515 or Napa Gold 1515

[boss429kiwi]

Sorry, it's TG43

[daveco]

A TG43 will work, just has less filtering capacity.

[nascarxx29]

TG 43  equiv to PH 43 both fram shorter filters

[boss429kiwi]

It will work, without causing a problem or damage, that's the main thing.

Cheers
Gary

[daveco]

Still at a loss as to how it was decided that a *43 should be installed rather than a PH8a.
I couldn't find any truly useful information regarding the service characteristics of either filter.
Is the smaller filter good enough? ...probably, ...maybe, uh, based on what?
It is supposed to have a PH8a, why not just put the correct filter on.

[62 Max]

I myself wouldn't put a Fram filter on anything !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRRgw4B7R-I

[C500]

I myself wouldn't put a Fram filter on anything !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRRgw4B7R-I

no frams going on my cars. Wix 51515 here.

[rainbow4jd]

I do oil filter training - cutting up oil filters and looking at the insides.    What's unexpected is the Motorcraft is the best filter available period.

1) All metal sealed end caps
2) Synthetic filter material
3) Top mounted mechanical bypass valve
4) All metal center stand tube
5) Even and numerous pleats
6) Silicon anti-drain back gasket

THE FRAM IS THE FREAKING WORST!

1) Paper end caps
2) Paper material
3) Open bypass thru center stand tube
4) Plastic bird cage center stand tube
5) Irregular pleating
6) Rubber anti-drain back gaskets

Everything else is in between the two.   Even more expensive Mobil and Puralators aren't as good as the Motorcraft (with their principal faults being dome end bypass valves which means you suck up crap from the dome end whenever you do a cold start and the filter is in bypass)

Note:  At roughly 40 degrees F or below 90% of all oils are too thick to pass through the filter paper, so filters go into bypass mode for about 60 - 120 seconds until the oil warms up.  It's the pancake syrup in the fridgerator syndrome - so knowing HOW a filter operates in bypass is critically important to engine life.

PS If we can only get a Mopar decal package to cover up the Motorcraft!

[talkiemopar]

My 92 ford 300-cu-in-straight-6 took the same oil filter as my bird--PH8A-fram.  Rick.   

[Mopar Nut]

I myself wouldn't put a Fram filter on anything !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRRgw4B7R-I

no frams going on my cars. Wix 51515 here.

X3

[C500]

I do oil filter training - cutting up oil filters and looking at the insides.    What's unexpected is the Motorcraft is the best filter available period.

1) All metal sealed end caps
2) Synthetic filter material
3) Top mounted mechanical bypass valve
4) All metal center stand tube
5) Even and numerous pleats
6) Silicon anti-drain back gasket

THE FRAM IS THE FREAKING WORST!

1) Paper end caps
2) Paper material
3) Open bypass thru center stand tube
4) Plastic bird cage center stand tube
5) Irregular pleating
6) Rubber anti-drain back gaskets

Everything else is in between the two.   Even more expensive Mobil and Puralators aren't as good as the Motorcraft (with their principal faults being dome end bypass valves which means you suck up crap from the dome end whenever you do a cold start and the filter is in bypass)

Note:  At roughly 40 degrees F or below 90% of all oils are too thick to pass through the filter paper, so filters go into bypass mode for about 60 - 120 seconds until the oil warms up.  It's the pancake syrup in the fridgerator syndrome - so knowing HOW a filter operates in bypass is critically important to engine life.

PS If we can only get a Mopar decal package to cover up the Motorcraft!

Excellent info rainbow,  from someone who knows these things first hand..... next filter I buy will be Motorcraft  

[rainbow4jd]

I do oil filter training - cutting up oil filters and looking at the insides.    What's unexpected is the Motorcraft is the best filter available period.

1) All metal sealed end caps
2) Synthetic filter material
3) Top mounted mechanical bypass valve
4) All metal center stand tube
5) Even and numerous pleats
6) Silicon anti-drain back gasket

THE FRAM IS THE FREAKING WORST!

1) Paper end caps
2) Paper material
3) Open bypass thru center stand tube
4) Plastic bird cage center stand tube
5) Irregular pleating
6) Rubber anti-drain back gaskets

Everything else is in between the two.   Even more expensive Mobil and Puralators aren't as good as the Motorcraft (with their principal faults being dome end bypass valves which means you suck up crap from the dome end whenever you do a cold start and the filter is in bypass)

Note:  At roughly 40 degrees F or below 90% of all oils are too thick to pass through the filter paper, so filters go into bypass mode for about 60 - 120 seconds until the oil warms up.  It's the pancake syrup in the fridgerator syndrome - so knowing HOW a filter operates in bypass is critically important to engine life.

PS If we can only get a Mopar decal package to cover up the Motorcraft!

Excellent info rainbow,  from someone who knows these things first hand..... next filter I buy will be Motorcraft  

If I knew how to size pictures I could post some cutaways.    Basically I use a pipe saw and cut them apart then put them in plastic display cases and haul them around with me.   I've got about 20 or so.   Everything from a 99 cent BIG LOTS "Valuecraft Brand" to I think a $12.00 Puralotor or maybe it was the Mobile.    By the way - the Valuecraft was EXACTLY identical to a Valvoline!  Go figure (that's why they have those Valvoline instant oil changes for $19.99 I guess)

The Motorcraft is a weird deal because the Ford dealer's jack you around on the price.   They want full list, which is about $8.00 bucks, but they only cost the dealer about $3.00 when they buy them in bulk from Ford.   Occasionally, Walmart or O'Reillys will by like 20 freight cars of Motorcraft and then have them on their shelves in the $5.00 range.

The other thing is that Ford has an "over the counter" sales incentive for the Dealer - to be able to do a "cash and carry special" - but the stupid Ford dealer parts managers don't even know about this incentive or are too lazy to look it up.   It's bizarre because they can't give you that deal if THEY change the oil on your car.  It's a special incentive just for folks that do their own oil changes.  I guess its designed to help the Ford dealers compete with Autozones and NAPAs.    But, if you find a pretty sharp Ford parts manager that would rather make a little money than NO money - you should be able to negotiate the price to about $5.00 - which is about a buck more than some of the other filters like a NAPA gold etc. etc. etc.  And if you think about it "a buck" to put a good quality filter in a $40,000 or $50,000 car - why do we even worry about a "good deal".  Just buy a good part!

ALL THAT BEING SAID - HERE'S WHAT YOU REALLY NEED TO KNOW....

There are two things going on - filtration and aging of the oil.   

The aging means HOW LONG or HOW MUCH dirt will the oil actually suspend in solution and carry to the filter for filtration.  That is accomplished through a package of additives call surfactants.  (Think SURF brand clothing detergent).    The additive package is UNIQUE to every brand of oil.   An oil chemist can test oil and tell you the brand name solely based on the ingredients in the additive package.     Once the oil saturates with dirt or the additive package ages out - you get sludge.  The dirt drops out and starts to catch and linger in every cranny of the engine and then starts to absorb MORE of the same crap until basically you oil starve and engine and it burns up.  (Note: oil also has a coolant function)

Old non-synthetic - crude oil - original MOPAR oil from the 1960s and 70s - degraded at around 4,000 miles or 4 to 6 months.   That's where the entire concept of "change your oil every 3,000 miles" came from.   The oil was only good for that long.  Modern oils - of a semi-synthetic nature - give you anywhere from about 6,000 miles to 12,000 miles of surfactant life and about a 12 to 18 months of normal heat life (if you're driving low miles).     So the once a year oil change using a semi-synthetic is a perfectly good deal or about 6,000 miles.

NOW - let's talk filters.   The issues for filters is "will they filter as long as the oil life".   That's the issue with cheap filters.   They usually have about 4,000 to 6,000 miles of filtration life before the get clogged up and it goes into by-pass mode.  WHICH MEANS IF YOU CHANGE YOUR OIL EVERY 3000 MILES YOU CAN USE A CHEAP ASS FILTER!   Because basically you are over-changing the oil (or prematurely changing the oil) - which costs a lot more than the filter.   So you waste money - but you save $2.00 by putting a cheap-ass filter on.   The point is - match the filter to the life of the oil.

Most factory filters - OE brands (like Motorcraft) are designed by the manufacturer to last the LONGER oil life - because they are going to the "oil test" determinant for when to change the oil (the computer in the car monitors the oil to determine when "chemically" it's needed.)   So the reason they give you a really good filter (OE) is because of warranty.  They don't want a filter that clogs up at 6,000 miles and then kills an engine because the oil (which is all they test) could go to 12,000 miles.

That being said - the Motorcraft OE is better designed than the AC Delco and (shame on me) I've NOT cut open a recent Mopar brand filter.   (In part, because my car hasn't been running for about 10 years - not that the motors bad but the car has been in slow restoration)

Anyway - I guess that's the general lesson in oil filters and oil filtration.

Hope this was helpful.

[nascarxx29]

 .Hands down the FL1A ford oil filter is better.Not only that I don't prefer to use champion J11ys period spark plugs .I used the Autolite 85 spark plugs with better results. If Im not mistaken the mopar used Dana 60 was a ford truck rear platform piece.And we can thank ford by pushing the need to beat the talladega with a purpose built mopar aero car

[Troy]

I do oil filter training - cutting up oil filters and looking at the insides.    What's unexpected is the Motorcraft is the best filter available period.

1) All metal sealed end caps
2) Synthetic filter material
3) Top mounted mechanical bypass valve
4) All metal center stand tube
5) Even and numerous pleats
6) Silicon anti-drain back gasket

THE FRAM IS THE FREAKING WORST!

1) Paper end caps
2) Paper material
3) Open bypass thru center stand tube
4) Plastic bird cage center stand tube
5) Irregular pleating
6) Rubber anti-drain back gaskets

Everything else is in between the two.   Even more expensive Mobil and Puralators aren't as good as the Motorcraft (with their principal faults being dome end bypass valves which means you suck up crap from the dome end whenever you do a cold start and the filter is in bypass)

Note:  At roughly 40 degrees F or below 90% of all oils are too thick to pass through the filter paper, so filters go into bypass mode for about 60 - 120 seconds until the oil warms up.  It's the pancake syrup in the fridgerator syndrome - so knowing HOW a filter operates in bypass is critically important to engine life.

PS If we can only get a Mopar decal package to cover up the Motorcraft!

Excellent info rainbow,  from someone who knows these things first hand..... next filter I buy will be Motorcraft 

If I knew how to size pictures I could post some cutaways.    Basically I use a pipe saw and cut them apart then put them in plastic display cases and haul them around with me.   I've got about 20 or so.   Everything from a 99 cent BIG LOTS "Valuecraft Brand" to I think a $12.00 Puralotor or maybe it was the Mobile.    By the way - the Valuecraft was EXACTLY identical to a Valvoline!  Go figure (that's why they have those Valvoline instant oil changes for $19.99 I guess)

The Motorcraft is a weird deal because the Ford dealer's jack you around on the price.   They want full list, which is about $8.00 bucks, but they only cost the dealer about $3.00 when they buy them in bulk from Ford.   Occasionally, Walmart or O'Reillys will by like 20 freight cars of Motorcraft and then have them on their shelves in the $5.00 range.

The other thing is that Ford has an "over the counter" sales incentive for the Dealer - to be able to do a "cash and carry special" - but the stupid Ford dealer parts managers don't even know about this incentive or are too lazy to look it up.   It's bizarre because they can't give you that deal if THEY change the oil on your car.  It's a special incentive just for folks that do their own oil changes.  I guess its designed to help the Ford dealers compete with Autozones and NAPAs.    But, if you find a pretty sharp Ford parts manager that would rather make a little money than NO money - you should be able to negotiate the price to about $5.00 - which is about a buck more than some of the other filters like a NAPA gold etc. etc. etc.  And if you think about it "a buck" to put a good quality filter in a $40,000 or $50,000 car - why do we even worry about a "good deal".  Just buy a good part!

ALL THAT BEING SAID - HERE'S WHAT YOU REALLY NEED TO KNOW....

There are two things going on - filtration and aging of the oil.   

The aging means HOW LONG or HOW MUCH dirt will the oil actually suspend in solution and carry to the filter for filtration.  That is accomplished through a package of additives call surfactants.  (Think SURF brand clothing detergent).    The additive package is UNIQUE to every brand of oil.   An oil chemist can test oil and tell you the brand name solely based on the ingredients in the additive package.     Once the oil saturates with dirt or the additive package ages out - you get sludge.  The dirt drops out and starts to catch and linger in every cranny of the engine and then starts to absorb MORE of the same crap until basically you oil starve and engine and it burns up.  (Note: oil also has a coolant function)

Old non-synthetic - crude oil - original MOPAR oil from the 1960s and 70s - degraded at around 4,000 miles or 4 to 6 months.   That's where the entire concept of "change your oil every 3,000 miles" came from.   The oil was only good for that long.  Modern oils - of a semi-synthetic nature - give you anywhere from about 6,000 miles to 12,000 miles of surfactant life and about a 12 to 18 months of normal heat life (if you're driving low miles).     So the once a year oil change using a semi-synthetic is a perfectly good deal or about 6,000 miles.

NOW - let's talk filters.   The issues for filters is "will they filter as long as the oil life".   That's the issue with cheap filters.   They usually have about 4,000 to 6,000 miles of filtration life before the get clogged up and it goes into by-pass mode.  WHICH MEANS IF YOU CHANGE YOUR OIL EVERY 3000 MILES YOU CAN USE A CHEAP ASS FILTER!   Because basically you are over-changing the oil (or prematurely changing the oil) - which costs a lot more than the filter.   So you waste money - but you save $2.00 by putting a cheap-ass filter on.   The point is - match the filter to the life of the oil.

Most factory filters - OE brands (like Motorcraft) are designed by the manufacturer to last the LONGER oil life - because they are going to the "oil test" determinant for when to change the oil (the computer in the car monitors the oil to determine when "chemically" it's needed.)   So the reason they give you a really good filter (OE) is because of warranty.  They don't want a filter that clogs up at 6,000 miles and then kills an engine because the oil (which is all they test) could go to 12,000 miles.

That being said - the Motorcraft OE is better designed than the AC Delco and (shame on me) I've NOT cut open a recent Mopar brand filter.   (In part, because my car hasn't been running for about 10 years - not that the motors bad but the car has been in slow restoration)

Anyway - I guess that's the general lesson in oil filters and oil filtration.

Hope this was helpful.

I can send you a used SRT filter if you want. It would be interesting to see what they're made of. They seem to be highly regarded - and they ain't cheap!

Troy

[c00nhunterjoe]

I ran motorcraft filters for years on everything until i switched to k&n

[thehemikid]

Quit using Fram's ~ 30 yrs ago after seeing one cut open.

[BS27R1B]

Have you cut open an old Mopar filter?
Since many restored cars are running these old filters it would be interesting to find out how these old parts compare.

[66FBCharger]

 

[moparstuart]

I only use these   

[Aero426]

The Wix filters have been touted as a very high quality filter for several years.   The NAPA versions show the exploded view in their displays.    How is the Motorcraft filter better? 

[odcics2]

What about water retention?  MoPar has an OEM spec for that... 

[62 Max]

I only use these   

Temporarily out of stock !!   

[rainbow4jd]

The Wix filters have been touted as a very high quality filter for several years.   The NAPA versions show the exploded view in their displays.    How is the Motorcraft filter better? 

The NAPA Gold Filter suffers from a non-mechanical bypass valve (although it is sealing end mounted versus the dome end of most filters).   The essentially use a silicon plug that has grooves cut in it.  In theory, under extreme load the silicon should "flex" to allow oil to bypass the filter until it warms up.   It's our opinion (but not tested) that it risks going to bypass mode during normal operations with some of our folks saying its even in "constant" bypass mode.   

The Motorcraft Filter uses a mechanical (sealing end) bypass.   The ability to control the mechanical relief is superior to trying to control the flex of the silicone.   You can set a spring rate very precisely so that the bypass valve will open and close similarly very precisely.    I'm going to try and post photos.

Incidentally, I also have a photo of a Wix filter (who makes the NAPA filters) that suffered ingestion.   This means it tried to go into bypass mode but it could not and so the stand pipe collapsed and it ingested the filter.   This resulted in a new engine that was paid for by Wix.

[rainbow4jd]

Hopefully here are three photos and then I'll post the others - then I'll provide commentary

[rainbow4jd]

here are the other two

[rainbow4jd]

OK - the first photo shows you the comparisons.   Now it is important to know that there are MANY types of oil filters within a brand.   There are premium ones and cheap ones.  This sample comes from the use of fleets that I visit in my business.  I see what they are using and then buy that filter.   The ONLY filter I've not seen used by a fleet is the Valuecraft - which I bought at a Big Lots for $99 cents.    It is the baseline for inferior filters (and for all practical purposes is worthless)

The second picture is out of the box.  Here you'll see the anti-drain back gaskets (that keep oil from draining backwards into the pan when the engine is turned off.   Silcone (orange) is far less susceptible to heat than rubber (black).   When we test engines for warranty - we check the oil passages.   If there is tiny bits of rubber in the passages (i.e. creating blockage and oil starvation) that is NOT a warranty engine!   The customer buys it!   So that is the first check point.

The other thing you see (on the Motorcraft and NAPA) ON THIS PHOTO AND THE NEXT ONE - are their bypass structures.   The Motorcraft is a full mechanical integrated bypass valve which you can see when you remove the anti-drainback gasket.   While the NAPA uses that weird silicone combination anti-drainback/bypass plug that has slots cut in it.  As mentioned in an earlier post - we believe that is in permanent bypass mode and allowing unfiltered oil to enter the system.   That being said, we are starting to question that belief based on the final photo in the set.  The NAPA filter may NOT be going into any bypass mode at all.  More on that down below.

The third picture shows the construction.  Obviously, metal crimped ends are far less likely to separate from the filter media than are the cardboard (glued) ends.    In that regard you can see the Motorcraft and NAPA are pretty similar.   You can also see inside some of the filters to see their standpipe construction - many are birdcages of plastic with little integrity.

You also see in this picture a better look at the Motorcraft mechanical bypass, whereas on the NAPA - once you remove their combo anti-drainback/bypass plug - you've just got the same toilet paper tube as all the other cheap filters.

The fourth picture is of the dome ends.   The dome ends are where debris and sludge accumulate.   The Motorcraft and NAPA are sealed dome ends - preventing the recirculation of UNFILTERED - big chunks of crap - back into the engine.    By comparison the other filters are toilet paper tubes.  On cold starts (under bypass) the oil circulates down into the dome end, grabs all the crap, and shoves it straight up into the engine.   In my opinion that is an engine failure waiting to happen.

The final picture is a WIX filter that failed to go into bypass.   Meaning the pressure was so great (technically the difference in pressure - negative on one side, positive on the other - due to complete blockage (it didn't go into bypass so there was no oil flowing at all) - that the filter collapsed and pieces of the filter material were ingested in the engine.   This fleet threatened to sue WIX, who bought them a new motor.

Like I said - I have about 20 filters  - but I use these photos in slide shows when I don't have my filter box with me.

Point being - don't judge a filter by its cover or its color!    

I am 100% recommending the OE brand oil filters whenever you change oil because those are the only ones that have really been tested and designed to NOT fail (because the car companies DON"T want to buy an engine under warranty).   If you read the "warranty" on your aftermarket filters - the only thing warranteed is the filter.   So if your car ingests the WIX/NAPA and blows its motor - they will happily give you a new filter!  (I'm sure you'll be happy about it also!)

And, to date, I've not seen a filter that matches the Motorcraft in design or function.

[thehemikid]

rainbow4jd,...your opinion of the System 1 "trash can" oil filter? Any test on it and it's by pass?

[rainbow4jd]

rainbow4jd,...your opinion of the System 1 "trash can" oil filter? Any test on it and it's by pass?

never tested it.   I only do "fleet applications" which are mostly trucks.   Sometimes I do the police car stuff - but usually the folks that have Dodge's are all about NAPA.  I don't think I've ever tested a Mopar filter - I don't have one in my box of cutaways.

Anyway from the photos and my description you can get a pretty good idea of what to look for.   Just buy one and hacksaw off the top about 1/2 inch below the sealing surface.  Inside will be everything you need to know.  Also check Youtube - some folks have posted similar stuff (but they are all about PLEATS and don't really know what to look for in construction)

I do estimates based on total pleats and pleat depth to get an idea of surface area, but the structure and design are far more important than pleat count or surface area.  I want to know if they are durable over the life of the oil.     You can usually get filtration specs on the manufacturer websites.

Note:  When it comes to filtration - there is actually a "sweet spot" of about 90%.   If you are above 90% you get restricted flow and below that you get dirty oil.    You want it to take out the dirt that is too big  (the trouble makers) and don't worry about the rest.    

[Aero426]

I have ordered about a dozen various Motorcraft filters for daily drivers (Ram, Hyundai Elantra, Focus) on Rock Auto.   Came out to $4.11 per filter out the door after tax, shipping and 5% discount.     

[odcics2]

Happened to talk to a WIX Engineering guy today.  They make 23 million oil filters a year.  They had 6 engine buy backs because of a filter failure. They take their filters seriously...   

[rainbow4jd]

Happened to talk to a WIX Engineering guy today.  They make 23 million oil filters a year.  They had 6 engine buy backs because of a filter failure. They take their filters seriously...   

Hope your engine isn't one of the six.     

[rainbow4jd]

I have ordered about a dozen various Motorcraft filters for daily drivers (Ram, Hyundai Elantra, Focus) on Rock Auto.   Came out to $4.11 per filter out the door after tax, shipping and 5% discount.     

That's pretty decent.    I knew they had pretty good all makes coverage - but not that extensive.

[odcics2]

Happened to talk to a WIX Engineering guy today.  They make 23 million oil filters a year.  They had 6 engine buy backs because of a filter failure. They take their filters seriously...   

Hope your engine isn't one of the six.     

HA!  It won't be, I use MoPar filters in everything.   

[62 Max]

I'm leaning toward cutting this one to satisfy my curiosity.

[odcics2]

Guess you don't have to worry about the bypass in the filter if the engine has it already...   

[Aero426]

I have ordered about a dozen various Motorcraft filters for daily drivers (Ram, Hyundai Elantra, Focus) on Rock Auto.   Came out to $4.11 per filter out the door after tax, shipping and 5% discount.    

That's pretty decent.    I knew they had pretty good all makes coverage - but not that extensive.

Ram filter is the short version of the FL1A and also fits my Fiat 124 Spider.    Focus is a common p/n,  the FL-810 fitting the Hyundai is also some Ford application.     I have been running Wix for about five years.  Am about out of them and it was time to reload.