Epoxy primer?

[Pat1973charger]

I have a question for someone more knowledgeable then me. I bought nason ful-poxy epoxy primer to do the structure and firewall and so on after blasting. The guy at another body supply shop said he didn't thinkni should use it. He said it's incredibly hard to sand and expensive. Price is no problem to me. He recommended Polyval direct to metal paint? Anyone have any thoughts on which way to go?

[hemi-hampton]

Never heard of Direct to metal paint on a car.

[Pat1973charger]

Me either Leon, I have hardly heard of it before at all. I don't think he knew what he was talking about. Anyone ever used the nason ful-poxy epoxy primer?

[Dino]

There are plenty dtm paints for cars but I'd go wth epoxy instead.  Some are indeed hard to sand and some are not.  SPI is apparently easy to sand and I will soon find out.  I don't know about Nason's.  You could spray epoxy followed by a high build primer without sanding the epoxy.  Check Nason's tech sheet for recoat time and if they recommend doing this at all.

[hemi-hampton]

Dino, what is a DTM paint & how does it work? LEON.

[hemi-hampton]

I just painted a bare metal engine compartment a couple of weeks ago. Just used self etching wash primer (most people skip this step & just go with the epoxy primer) Then DP90 epoxy primer, then 2 or 3 coats of single stage black concept. all PPG. Whats wrong with that? To Old school? LEON.

[Pat1973charger]

Most likely it will be a very longtime before I get it in high build primer or paint while I finish the body work, just wanted a good coating over the bare steel.

[Dino]

A direct to metal paint has some of the same ingredients as an etch primer anf a high build primer.  The best ones are polyurethanes so that will give you an idea of cost.  It's been used in industrial applications for a while now with great results, but I still wouldn't use it on a car.  The old school method is proven to work.  I used to do the exact same as you did, starting with the yellow stinky wash primer.   

SPI epoxy has a self etching component and should be sprayed straight onto bare metal.  Alternatively you can coat the metal with ospho but beware you'll either have to reactivate it or remove it when primer time comes around.

Pat, you can reduce your epoxy to make it flow better, that will give you a finish you will simply have to scuff before shooting high build primer.  Nothing wrong with that.

[Pat1973charger]

Thanks dino! Should I just reduce it with the nason paint reducer? This stuff is all kinda new to me, be around it but never done it myself

[Dino]

That would be fine as long as they are the same type of paint.  If both are urethane then have at it.  Just don't mix an enamel reducer with a urethane primer.  Reducers are pretty forgiving as opposed to activators but why take the chance.

[Pat1973charger]

Here is the direct to metal paint the guy mentioned. http://www.polyvalcoatings.com/whatwedo/polyurproducts.html

This is the nason epoxy I have.
http://products.axaltacs.com/dcat/us/en/nsn/product/491-10.html

[Dino]

The polyval is great to paint some industrial stuff but I really wouldn't use it on a car.  If ever you need some collsion work done it will not be an easy blend product!

The epoxy does not list a reducer but shoot them an email, they will have a single stage reducer that works with this.  To use as a sealer you'd have to reduce it  quite a bit, strange that none are listed.  It'll do the job you want though.  If you can eturn it I'd advise looking into PSI.  They are famous for their epoxy AND free shipping.   

[Pat1973charger]

I am sure I can return it. Would SPI ship to canada? I'm kinda lost now on what to do

[Dino]

I am sure I can return it. Would SPI ship to canada? I'm kinda lost now on what to do

I didn't realize you were in Canada.  Give them a call.  If you're going to lose money on this then you might as well use what you have.

http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/#!export-info/c22hq

[DC_1]

SPI has great products. Ive used their epoxy primers and they are top notch and sand well. I've also used their Euro Clear for some panel repairs and it went on nice and polished up easy....I have used PPG, Dupont and Sherwin Williams premium clears and I must say the SPI product gave me very good results for less money.

My car was shot with single stage 15 years ago and I am going to be respraying in base clear this winter. I will be using the SPI Universal Clear as I have seen a few cars shot with this and it gives show quality results in my opinion.

I'm in Canada too but I have the products shipped to a U.S address to make things easy and less expensive than trying to ship here.

[Pat1973charger]

Thanks guys! I guess I have some thinking to do. I don't have a US address to have it sent too so not sure how much it would cost me exchange and duties etc.

[hemi-hampton]

I did a search & read up on the polyval & DTM. I was a little familiar with this stuff being for Industrial use which is why I was confused on the Auto connection. And from reading the websites I still see no connection as no site ever mentioned it's use on Automobiles Might be good for Painting the Golden Gate Bridge or Mackinaw Bridge but I don't see why anybody would want to use it on a Car. I think who ever told you that gave you bad advise LEON.

[Pat1973charger]

After I read up on it in the site I felt the same way Leon, but thought I'd post just to see what others think/do.

[Dino]

The only time I've seen it used in autobody was on fleet trucks as it's very durable, but on a personal car?  Just stick with the proven methods.   

[Pete in NH]

If the car is going to sit in primer for a long period epoxy primer is the way to go. It's the only primer that is water/moisture proof. I don't know anything about Nason epoxy but, SPI is great stuff and the tech support from SPI is top notch. You'll also find a lot of really knowledgeable people on the SPI users forum.

I would be careful about advise from paint store counter guys, some know many don't. Also, remember restoration work is very different from collision repair insurance work where time and money matter more than the very best, longest lasting paint work.

[Silver R/T]

Direct to metal paint is used in industrial painting, machinery, tools, etc. Just cheap, crappy paint to shoot over machinery just to make it look good enough to sell. it doesn't belong on a car.

[Pat1973charger]

I am going epoxy for sure just not sure if I'll use the nason I have or go another route.

[otter440]

let me know where you are in Canada I am in Alberta and run a mopar rest shop I would use either Generals epoxy or PPG epoxy both can be bought in Canada generals can be scuffed and does not ball up like most epoxies do.

[Pat1973charger]

I am in Nova Scotia

[Canadian1968]

Its good to see a lot of people using the SPI products ! They are great.  Dino is this what your going to use on your engine bay?

I am from Ontario Canada and know that Napa carries / orders SPI products. There are also a couple other suppliers in the area that offer it as well, I don't see why you should have a problem sourcing it out on the east coast. !  Retail cost is about $130 for kit I believe ( Primer and Hardener ( 1:1 Ratio ) ).

I don't know much about your project. Has body work been finished? or are you planing on epoxy and then finish body work down the road?  The best way to use epoxy is to finish your body work, apply 2 coats of epoxy, wait 12-24 hours then apply your high build primer. No need to sand/ scuff the epoxy it has a 72 hour recoat window.  Then you can let the car sit as long as you want.  If you only apply the epoxy and let sit for longer than 72 hours it must be scuffed again before anything else is applied.  I really do not suggest this method, as its a lot more work and caution that if epoxy is not scuffed properly you can run into adhesion problems !!

[Dino]

Its good to see a lot of people using the SPI products ! They are great.  Dino is this what your going to use on your engine bay?

I am from Ontario Canada and know that Napa carries / orders SPI products. There are also a couple other suppliers in the area that offer it as well, I don't see why you should have a problem sourcing it out on the east coast. !  Retail cost is about $130 for kit I believe ( Primer and Hardener ( 1:1 Ratio ) ).

I don't know much about your project. Has body work been finished? or are you planing on epoxy and then finish body work down the road?  The best way to use epoxy is to finish your body work, apply 2 coats of epoxy, wait 12-24 hours then apply your high build primer. No need to sand/ scuff the epoxy it has a 72 hour recoat window.  Then you can let the car sit as long as you want.  If you only apply the epoxy and let sit for longer than 72 hours it must be scuffed again before anything else is applied.  I really do not suggest this method, as its a lot more work and caution that if epoxy is not scuffed properly you can run into adhesion problems !!

Yes I used SPI.     http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,120098.0.html

SPI gives you a 7 day recoat window without sanding but I never recoat without sanding.  I shot more primer yesterday and will be topcoating tomorrow so today I'm sanding! 

[Pat1973charger]

I plan on using it mostly under the roof skin on the inner structure as well as the side of the firewall and quarter window supports and so on.