tesla plant

[el dub]

Tesla's on the line.....http://www.youtube.com/embed/8_lfxPI5ObM?rel=0.   if its old news mods delete

[HANDM]

Did you know that tesla gets 3.5 billion annually from the good old welfare program for corporations that you are paying for?

Did you know that the ceo is the highest paid in the country?

As far as I'm concerned, if a company can't survive on its own, it shouldn't exist.

Electric cars are cool and all but they're just toys for the limousine liberals

[bakerhillpins]

Did you know that tesla gets 3.5 billion annually from the good old welfare program for corporations that you are paying for?

Did you know that the ceo is the highest paid in the country?

As far as I'm concerned, if a company can't survive on its own, it shouldn't exist.

Electric cars are cool and all but they're just toys for the limousine liberals

I'm with you on the CEO pay, because frankly, I don't think any of them are worth that much. It's stupid to assume that they are so irreplaceable that they need that level of compensation but thankfully many of the companies have a board (made up of other CEOs who apparently aren't doing much else) who assure us they are. 

However, I wholeheartedly disagree that the Fed shouldn't support them. As far as I am concerned it's a federally supported science experiment, just like 90% of the funds we dump into the military/defense industry. Funny how no one seems to bitch to loudly about that. The fact is the model isn't sustainable at the moment but we need to start the process of playing with alternative technologies to deal with the inevitable end of fossil fuels.

Your also ignoring the spin-off technological benefits of their work. Spend some time looking into all the day to day gadgets you use/rely on and trace back to the money that funded the research that made the discovery's. Most comes directly from govt funded projects via NASA and Defense. Not that all bear fruit, because many don't but that blindly discounts the fact that you learn just as much if not more from failure.  I used to work in the defense industry and trust me, there is plenty of waste to to be upset about, plenty..      

[el dub]

More than plenty. Newsworthy in my opinion.

Heck the CEO owns the company, I say go for it. How are you going to get rich working for peanuts. A lot of companies us govt money. Maybe not for a start up, but we'll see how that goes.

[ws23rt]

Did you know that tesla gets 3.5 billion annually from the good old welfare program for corporations that you are paying for?

Did you know that the ceo is the highest paid in the country?

As far as I'm concerned, if a company can't survive on its own, it shouldn't exist.

Electric cars are cool and all but they're just toys for the limousine liberals

I'm with you on the CEO pay, because frankly, I don't think any of them are worth that much. It's stupid to assume that they are so irreplaceable that they need that level of compensation but thankfully many of the companies have a board (made up of other CEOs who apparently aren't doing much else) who assure us they are.  

However, I wholeheartedly disagree that the Fed shouldn't support them. As far as I am concerned it's a federally supported science experiment, just like 90% of the funds we dump into the military/defense industry. Funny how no one seems to bitch to loudly about that. The fact is the model isn't sustainable at the moment but we need to start the process of playing with alternative technologies to deal with the inevitable end of fossil fuels.

Your also ignoring the spin-off technological benefits of their work. Spend some time looking into all the day to day gadgets you use/rely on and trace back to the money that funded the research that made the discovery's. Most comes directly from govt funded projects via NASA and Defense. Not that all bear fruit, because many don't but that blindly discounts the fact that you learn just as much if not more from failure.  I used to work in the defense industry and trust me, there is plenty of waste to to be upset about, plenty..      

Great points about the positives that can come from mega bucks being tossed at an idea.  This could boost the need to improve batteries that would tie all this together.

In the mean time this is a company that is enjoying a luxury that gives it a heavy advantage and lift that goes against the long term best way for competition to thrive.  If other companies are denied a similar boost it just may be that they (Tesla) are the only game in town to play.  
At some point the milk will run dry from our pockets and the market has to take over. Where will Tesla be when the public has to pay for what they produce and their is not another choice?  The cars are expensive now in spite of the boost from us.

What I see in the video is a clean modern plant that is geared up to make something few would be able to buy if it were not for "the boost" we all give it.---Should that plant be promoted as a partner with the US Gov.----

I would hope and expect that much of --OUR-- dollars are spent on improvements in the fields of electrical generation and distribution as well as progress with batteries.

Let's let the car makers do what they do and not just help one company thrive and hope all will be fine.

[Ponch ®]

Electric cars are cool and all but they're just toys for the limousine liberals

Have you ever driven or been in a Tesla S? Some models will blow the doors off a Hellcat. Im far from a limousine liberal, but as a car guy, I'd buy one if I could afford it.

[Dino]

Electric cars are cool and all but they're just toys for the limousine liberals

Have you ever driven or been in a Tesla S? Some models will blow the doors off a Hellcat. Im far from a limousine liberal, but as a car guy, I'd buy one if I could afford it.

Same here, these guys will be rich with or without me.  I want one of them electric thingies!   

[ws23rt]

Electric cars are cool and all but they're just toys for the limousine liberals

Have you ever driven or been in a Tesla S? Some models will blow the doors off a Hellcat. Im far from a limousine liberal, but as a car guy, I'd buy one if I could afford it.

I've not had the experience of a high end electric but am a car guy and know what G forces are all about.  I expect the noises we will hear while accelerating will be quite different. I also look forward to driving one.
We can compare the two with numbers and seat of the pants feel. I like that.

I also like my Hemi Coronet 4sp.  Their is lot's to have fun with in muscle cars.

[myk]

Still waiting on the Tesla drivetrain into a Charger swap...

[BSB67]

Did you know that tesla gets 3.5 billion annually from the good old welfare program for corporations that you are paying for?

Did you know that the ceo is the highest paid in the country?

As far as I'm concerned, if a company can't survive on its own, it shouldn't exist.

Electric cars are cool and all but they're just toys for the limousine liberals

I'm with you on the CEO pay, because frankly, I don't think any of them are worth that much. It's stupid to assume that they are so irreplaceable that they need that level of compensation but thankfully many of the companies have a board (made up of other CEOs who apparently aren't doing much else) who assure us they are. 

However, I wholeheartedly disagree that the Fed shouldn't support them. As far as I am concerned it's a federally supported science experiment, just like 90% of the funds we dump into the military/defense industry. Funny how no one seems to bitch to loudly about that. The fact is the model isn't sustainable at the moment but we need to start the process of playing with alternative technologies to deal with the inevitable end of fossil fuels.

Your also ignoring the spin-off technological benefits of their work. Spend some time looking into all the day to day gadgets you use/rely on and trace back to the money that funded the research that made the discovery's. Most comes directly from govt funded projects via NASA and Defense. Not that all bear fruit, because many don't but that blindly discounts the fact that you learn just as much if not more from failure.  I used to work in the defense industry and trust me, there is plenty of waste to to be upset about, plenty..      

How is this not the federal government picking winners and losers in the private sector.

This has no comparison to the military.

[stripedelete]

Did you know that tesla gets 3.5 billion annually from the good old welfare program for corporations that you are paying for?

Did you know that the ceo is the highest paid in the country?

As far as I'm concerned, if a company can't survive on its own, it shouldn't exist.

Electric cars are cool and all but they're just toys for the limousine liberals

I'm with you on the CEO pay, because frankly, I don't think any of them are worth that much. It's stupid to assume that they are so irreplaceable that they need that level of compensation but thankfully many of the companies have a board (made up of other CEOs who apparently aren't doing much else) who assure us they are. 

However, I wholeheartedly disagree that the Fed shouldn't support them. As far as I am concerned it's a federally supported science experiment, just like 90% of the funds we dump into the military/defense industry. Funny how no one seems to bitch to loudly about that. The fact is the model isn't sustainable at the moment but we need to start the process of playing with alternative technologies to deal with the inevitable end of fossil fuels.

Your also ignoring the spin-off technological benefits of their work. Spend some time looking into all the day to day gadgets you use/rely on and trace back to the money that funded the research that made the discovery's. Most comes directly from govt funded projects via NASA and Defense. Not that all bear fruit, because many don't but that blindly discounts the fact that you learn just as much if not more from failure.  I used to work in the defense industry and trust me, there is plenty of waste to to be upset about, plenty..      

True Dat!
And we're not just talking Tang.

[RallyeMike]

Did you know that tesla gets 3.5 billion annually from the good old welfare program for corporations that you are paying for?

Did you know that the ceo is the highest paid in the country?

As far as I'm concerned, if a company can't survive on its own, it shouldn't exist.

Electric cars are cool and all but they're just toys for the limousine liberals

There is no need to politicize the electric car industry. The Govt throws our money at everything. At least we can perhaps expect to benefit from electric car technologies in the future.

[redmist]

I think if I had a government entity telling me how I need to build my cars, what goes in them, how safe they can be, how many miles per gallon they need to get, what my carbon footprint should be, what types of material I need to use, where it comes from, how it gets here, Etc Etc....

Then they sure as hell better be loaning me money to do it.   

[Mike DC]

  
Private industry is good at staying profitable but it's short-sighted.  It resists investing in big expensive changes much longer than it should.  


What if the govt had done more to force the car industry towards electrics & other advances years ago?   Then the industry might currently be making a given MPG regulation without trying to squeeze so much MPG from rest of the car in frustrating ways.  

Tinfoil body sheetmetal, plastic in stupid places like radiator tanks, air conditioning systems extra complicated for reduced drag, aero-blob body styling, etc.  The car industry has given us all these wonderful gifts in the last few decades as they avoided making serious R&D investments that will eventually be required anyway.  
            

[HANDM]

I'm not saying that I wouldn't drive or even own one, but for a hundred f'ing grand and up, I'd rather buy the Hellcat and a nicely restored 70.

As for the cost of the vehicle and production, I've heard that they are susidized to the tune of 200+ just to produce the things. How is that innovative? How is that helping the tech along? As far as I can tell, mr musk better be putting away some of our tax dollars because surely as I sit here, the second the teat dries up, so does tesla and their nice new taxpayer funded factory.....

[Mike DC]

  
Should we let Honda or Toyota perfect this technology instead?  Maybe their govt would like to donate to the cause.

It's cutting-edge technology with big practical real world applications.  I would rather see the US govt subsidize inventing/perfecting it here than overseas.  We've lost enough technical edge in the last 30 years.  



The LA times said that Tesla has gotten around $3 billion dollars from the govt over the years.

Bush & Cheney's Iraq invasion cost us around $5 billion dollars - per week.

[bakerhillpins]

How is this not the federal government picking winners and losers in the private sector.

This has no comparison to the military.

Well actually it kinda is, but the funny thing is isn't this what we WANT them to do with our money?  I mean seriously, you just want them to hand it out without evaluating where it's going?

Someone filed an application with the govt to get funds and someone decided to give it to them. Someone is definitely choosing somewhere along the line.  It happens all the time. Someone is responsible for making an educated guess that this persons business model is better equipped to survive in the world than the other guys. Happens with Venture Capitalists, at your local bank with business loans, and when you choose one guy over another to mow your lawn. Govt or private sector it's there.  Now, the thing we are conveniently ignoring here is that the people responsible for choosing are not supposed to have favorites. Which is where all the rules about "gifts" come from. (read favors/bribes/etc).

And this is EXACTLY how it's done in the defense industry. I survived on and in it for years. You submit a proposal/whitepaper/whatever to the system saying you have the greatest chance of success and they choose you or they don't. They are "picking winners and losers" all the time. The only difference is that the defense industry isn't typically making serial #1 for the consumer market, that gets spun off later.

[BSB67]

How is this not the federal government picking winners and losers in the private sector.

This has no comparison to the military.

Well actually it kinda is, but the funny thing is isn't this what we WANT them to do with our money?  I mean seriously, you just want them to hand it out without evaluating where it's going?

Someone filed an application with the govt to get funds and someone decided to give it to them. Someone is definitely choosing somewhere along the line.  It happens all the time. Someone is responsible for making an educated guess that this persons business model is better equipped to survive in the world than the other guys. Happens with Venture Capitalists, at your local bank with business loans, and when you choose one guy over another to mow your lawn. Govt or private sector it's there.  Now, the thing we are conveniently ignoring here is that the people responsible for choosing are not supposed to have favorites. Which is where all the rules about "gifts" come from. (read favors/bribes/etc).

And this is EXACTLY how it's done in the defense industry. I survived on and in it for years. You submit a proposal/whitepaper/whatever to the system saying you have the greatest chance of success and they choose you or they don't. They are "picking winners and losers" all the time. The only difference is that the defense industry isn't typically making serial #1 for the consumer market, that gets spun off later.

Sorry.  Disagree. It is the governments job to maintain a military.  And when you are in the military contract business, you know what you are in for.

The government does not have money.  They just have our money.  They will suck and crush the efficiency out of everything.  There are injustices all over, but I would rather have it in a free market without government intervention. Government completely screws up and pollutes a river in Colorado, oops, it was an accident.  NO one held accountable.  I follow selected rules and regulations, and have noticed that GM has become completely silent on any issues that the automotive industry bring up that challenges a government course of action.  Wonder why?  In the end, government intervention in the private sector will not be good for the general public.

I've been self employed in the lawn mowing business.  I would much rather sell my services based on the quality of my service and pricing in the private sector any day.  In this environment, high quality and low cost will prevail.  It is a much more level playing field.

[bakerhillpins]

Sorry.  Disagree. It is the governments job to maintain a military.  And when you are in the military contract business, you know what you are in for.

The military is ONE of the many jobs that our govt has taken on. The other happens to be investing in emerging technologies so that we can get a head start within the market and help smooth adoption and integration. Some of that happens in the private sector through grants.

Um, I hate to burst your bubble, but they (mil contractors) are in it for the money. Pure and simple, Nothing more. I've been there and done that. There a thousand contractors out there that all want to win the same contract and it's not because they bleed red, white, and blue.

The government does not have money.  They just have our money.  They will suck and crush the efficiency out of everything.  There are injustices all over, but I would rather have it in a free market without government intervention. Government completely screws up and pollutes a river in Colorado, oops, it was an accident.  NO one held accountable.  I follow selected rules and regulations, and have noticed that GM has become completely silent on any issues that the automotive industry bring up that challenges a government course of action.  Wonder why?  In the end, government intervention in the private sector will not be good for the general public.

Look at it however you want. They have money. Just because you don't like it that they got it from us and they tend to make a mess out of things and sometimes screw up the environment doesn't mean that they are harpooning the free market. And frankly it's laughable that you believe that a free market wouldn't have polluted a river, or better yet if it did it someone would be held accountable. Spend some time searching the old internet for Superfund.

Yes, GM is probably being quiet, why? because they want more money. Do you bite any of the hands that feed you?

I've been self employed in the lawn mowing business.  I would much rather sell my services based on the quality of my service and pricing in the private sector any day.  In this environment, high quality and low cost will prevail.  It is a much more level playing field.

That's great and I commend you for not only running your own business but having the dedication to serving your customers to the best of your ability and having pride in that endeavor. Just don't gloss over the fact that the Govt is buying services the same as your customers, based upon whom or what gives them the best bang for their buck. Just because they are betting on one company's tech over another doesn't make them any different than any other investor.

[Mike DC]

                                              

It takes massive govt intervention just to keep our gas prices low & stable so the fossil fuel cars continue.  It's everything from giving stupid-cheap deals on govt land, providing worldwide security for shipments, tossing out inconvenient rulers in oil-rich countries, etc.  Even the MPG requirements on the USA's car fleet helps keep prices down.  

All this stuff artificially drives down investment in alternative fuels in the USA.

Govt grants to companies like Tesla could be viewed as a compensation for their own actions in other areas.