Reinforcing the K frame - Pics added 11/13

[Dino]

Firm feel will reinforce your K frame for $450 but they also have a diy kit for $75.  I can weld so I'd go with option #2.  The kit seems to contain a skid plate, some washers, and triangular pieces to box the steering part.  Has anyone done this?  I assume it's worth the cost, unless shipping is astronomical, but on the other hand it also seems this can be done with some thick scrap metal as well.  A template for the steering box pat would help though. Opinions?

http://www.firmfeel.com/b_body_mopar_k_frame_reinforcement.html

I'd also weld all the seams by the way.

When all this is said and done, would it still be beneficial to get the bolt on steering box kit or would this be overkill?  

http://www.firmfeel.com/b_body_mopar_sector_support_kit.html

[Kern Dog]

I made my own skid plate and gussets, then welded them in along with welding all the seams in my K member. I started a thread on Moparts in the Corners forum. Google search "Welded K member" by Frankenduster and you'll see what I did.

[Dino]

Thanks Kern Dog, I just read all 8 pages and it was very informative.

The only way for me to get my hands on a mig is by renting a small 110v unit for $50/day.  Since I have a lot of sheet metal welding to do, and the mig may not be strong enough to weld the K member, I wonder if I need to farm this out.  There's some guys around here that will be able to do this with a big 220v unit and they know exactly what to do on these things.  I doubt I could get all the welding done in a single day so if I need to spend an additional $50 on rental fees I might as well find out what they charge. 

[RallyeMike]

The K metal is not so thick that a decent 110V mig can't do the job. The washers and steel can be fabbed for next to nothing... so it really depends on what your time is worth to you. $75, or a couple of days finding and cutting stuff?

As long as you've prepped everything, the welding can be done in 1/2 day. The tough part is getting the grease out of the sandwiched metal of the K-frame.

[Dino]

You're right.  I just went out to look it over again and I should be able to do this with a half decent welder.  The outside is nice and clean but there's no way I can get all of the inside clean so I'm taking it to a local shop tomorrow to see if they can hot tank it.  The local rental place actually rents out a mig for $50 for 24 hours so time won't be an issue.  I just hope they have a CO2/Argon tank on it!

[68pplcharger]

The K metal is not so thick that a decent 110V mig can't do the job. The washers and steel can be fabbed for next to nothing... so it really depends on what your time is worth to you. $75, or a couple of days finding and cutting stuff?

As long as you've prepped everything, the welding can be done in 1/2 day. The tough part is getting the grease out of the sandwiched metal of the K-frame.

Agreed... I felt it was worth the time savings to spend 75 bucks. Seam welded the whole thing as well as adding in their kit didn't take but a few hours. Luckily my K-member was already cleaned up. I already have a huge mig welder in my shop so i also didn't have to rent one. Does a buddy of yours have one you could borrow?

[Dino]

None that I can borrow but I can rent one from Saturday afternoon until Monday morning for $50.  I still need to find shielding gas though as the rental place only rents the mig itself.  There's a place local that does this, I just don't know the cost yet.  My wife's car needs some welding done as well so I should have plenty time to do all of it.  The k member will be dipped so it's clean before I start.

Regarding the kit, it will be handy to have although it shouldn't take me much to find some scrap metal, but then I have to fabricate it myself.  The washers are easy enough but having a ready to weld skid plate sounds pretty good.   

What else comes in the kit? 

Would you guys recommend spending $135 on the sector support or will there be no point once the k member is beefed up?

[oldcarnut]

Some extra info in case you didn't see it.  I welded my own plates.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,16449.0.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,68199.msg771915.html#msg771915

[Dino]

Some extra info in case you didn't see it.  I welded my own plates.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,16449.0.html
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,68199.msg771915.html#msg771915

Did not see those, thanks!  Lca box plates are on my list.   

[Kern Dog]

That lower sector support might help if you  corner hard with sticky street or track tires, I'm talking .90g or more. If the steering box mounts are reinforced with gussets and you are not running a 275-40-18 tire, you may not see any benefit. The common tall street tires many people run give up traction before stressing the suspension and steering .

[Troy]

A while back I read that the k-frame gussets were redundant if you use the sector support. However, it seems that most people weld up the seams and make the entire k-frame more solid so I really doubt if it will hurt. If someone were planning to go with a Borgeson box then the support doesn't fit so they're stuck with welding in the gussets.

Troy

[Mike DC]

The reinforcements around the LCA mounting tube are pretty vital regardless of what you do with the steering. 

[Nickrc3]

Dino, I used the $75.00 Firm-Feel kit and was very pleased with the overall fit of strut donuts and gussets. The skid plate didn't match that well, but definitely worth the cost. Minimal grinding required.









I would personally not use a 110v MIG for the K-member welding. My Hobart 140 just didn't appear to penetrate and with the limited amperage/duty cycle, I just wasn't comfortable. I used a 220V machine for the K-member, and my 140 for the box plates on the LCA's.

What's amazing is how those nasty, shoddy-looking welds from the factory actually held-up over decades of tire-burning abuse.

[Dino]

Thanks Nick, you wouldn't happen to have more pics do you?  I just received the Firm Feel kit and there's a few more pieces in there I don't know where they go.  My k member is being cleaned as we speak and I won't have it back for a few days.  There are 4 washers, the triangular piece and the rectangular-ish one, and the sid place, and then there's a long sliver piece as well.

Unfortunately,the Hobart 140 is exactly what I'm renting, along with a tank of 75/25 Co2/argon.  If I can't get good weld penetration then I'll just tack everythig in place and ask my mechanic to finish the job on his 220 mig.   

I agree on the factory weld, they look like crap yet they held up.

I also have the LCA reinforcement plates.

[Nickrc3]

...always my pleasure Dino.

Yes, the fitment of those pieces can be confusing. I had no luck finding any pics over the Internet, but eventually I was able to visually match them to the K-member. The one I didn't use is shaped like a quarter-moon - had no idea where it could possibly go. The two donut-shaped disks with the flat side (not seen in pics) go on the back side.

I'm sure you'll be fine with the 110v Hobart unit. I've been known to over-engineer everything.
As you are aware, ensure all joints are super clean before welding. I used both a tapered carbide bit and various-shaped 3M 'Green Corps' (the best!) grinding wheels (chucked into a mini die grinder) to properly fit the gussets with minimal gaps. Once clamped, it may be a good idea to heat the areas with some MAPP gas before welding.

Check out Mr. Lusk's video on modifying the LCA's. Very informative. Mine came out really nice - finished with Krylon's battery protector spray aerosol, then shot a satin clear. Looks very similar to the factory Cosmoline.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwes-SP8u4w


I've got the K-member in storage (along with a thousand of other restored components). Unfortunately, I have no other pictures, but will stop by the warehouse and take additional pics this weekend if needed. Let me know...

[Dino]

Thanks Nick, I'm sure I'll figure it out.  I'll be welding it this Sunday.  I'll call Firm Feel tomorrow and see if they can tell me where the half moon thingie goes.  So the two washer type ones go on one side of the lca holes and the ones with the flat spot go on the opposite side?

Thabks for the link, that helps!   

[Nickrc3]

I'll call Firm Feel tomorrow and see if they can tell me where the half moon thingie goes.  So the two washer type ones go on one side of the lca holes and the ones with the flat spot go on the opposite side?

I too, called them and they didn't offer much help with mounting locations.
I believe both pairs of the round gusset inner holes diameter match the diameters of the K-member strut holes, which you will see; larger diameter ones up front, smaller in back.

[Dino]

I just found this which shows where what goes.  The half moon just fills the gap below the steering box so maybe you just welded yours shut without it.  That could easily be done.

http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?61225-K-Frame-stiffening-plates-Who-has-installed-them-Any-pitfalls-or-recommendations

Thanks buddy 

[Nickrc3]

...wow - good find on the other site Dino. I lurk around there daily, but never came across it.

Let us know how your welding project turns out...

[Dino]

Will do!

I just picked up the k member and it's super clean.   

I held the washers in place.  I thought there was a washer on each side of the lca holes but the big ones are too big for that.  They fit the strut rod holes though.  I'll have to study the pictures and compare to what I have.

Now that the k member is clean it really shows the shoddy factory welds. 

[cdr]

when I did mine I thought ,  HOW did these welds ever hold up ?

[myk]

Have K members ever broken?

[Dino]

You bet they have.  Google it and be amazed.   

[Troy]

Have K members ever broken?

Yep, I have 2 of them! I see people all the time who "park by sound" so it's not a new phenomenon. A couple of my cars had been wrecked in the past (both left side and seemingly at a good clip) and the k-members were torn/ripped/bent. Then there's the ones that have been obviously used incorrectly as a jack point (or tow chain hook)...

Troy

[Dino]

All done!  I rewelded the factory welds where necessary and added a bunch more.  I also welded the entire seam, the 4 corner brackets that bolt the k member to the frame and just about anywhee I thought it could benefit from a weld.  I pobably overdid it but better safe than sorry!  I welded the Firm Feel parts in place but did not use the half moon.  It needed quite a bit of modification to fit and it was easy enough to just weld it shut without using the piece.  I did weld the LCA washers inside and out and had to grind a piece of weld on the inside as I moved a bit while welding causing the LCA shaft not to slide in all the way.  A grinding stone on a Dremel fixed that problem though.  The little welder did very well!  I set it to 4/40 (HA, hadn't noticed that   ), and it was hot enough to burn a hole in the k member steel so I think the welds will hold.  

I also welded the stiffening plates to the LCAs and of course welded he patch panel in the engine bay and welded the extra holes shut.  It's been a long day and I didn't take any progress pics as the welder was a rental.  I'll snap some tomorrow.