Timmycharger's 68 Resto

[timmycharger]

looks really good. i got to ask, have you ever done this type of work before. the welding of the panels on and trunk replacement. and the painting. i like to read all these threads on restoration and i wonder if any of you have done this before or are just jumping in. either way it looks good and i hope that i can accomplish the same.
cant wait for paint

Luke

Thank you Luke, this is my second attempt at building a car, previously my brother and I built his 70 Dart about 20 years ago, but we didn't do any of the bodywork.  I always wrenched on cars growing up, but never had any real formal training.  I learned to weld about 15 years ago, and have lots of on the job support from my brother in law who was trained.  He also has been a huge help with the bodywork and paint as he has much more patience than I do 

With 3 kids and a house, I honestly just cannot afford to pay anyone to do the work for me and doing it myself has become the only option for me to get the car finished.

Good luck on your project!

[timmycharger]

I have not had much time lately to work in the garage but got a few hours in last night. Im almost finished with taping off the car, this is just for dust from the filler and primer overspray, my interior is just about done as is the engine bay/trunk area so I don't want to have to clean it as I know Im going to make a mess.  The hinges look ridiculous with plastic bags on them but that was the only way I could get them covered and be able to open and close. 

What a slow process taping is for me, can't wait to do it all again after the body work is done and I have to tape it for final paint.  Couple of shots from the garage last night, it was about 25 degrees out but nice and toasty in the garage. I had my wife turn on the pellet stove around 4 and I was out there around 8. the temp of the body went from 36 degrees to 59 degrees, ambient went from about the same 36 to a nice 65 by the time I called it a night around 10:30.  Good test for when I have to start spreading the filler on. Ill have the filler in the house before I lay it on so its nice and easy to work with.

[72Charger-SE]

Enjoying the progress and 'do it yourself' mantra of your build!  Congrats on the progress and can't wait to see more photos!

[timmycharger]

Enjoying the progress and 'do it yourself' mantra of your build!  Congrats on the progress and can't wait to see more photos!

Thank you!


We got in a few hours on the body on Sunday and made some progress. We sanded down the primer that was rough in some areas with 320 and put down a skim coat of Z grip filler on the top of the fender/door and quarter along with the Dutchman panel. I am not nearly good enough of a body man to get the car straight with a hammer and dolly so I will be pretty much skim coating every panel. Most of the filler will end up on the floor anyway.  The hood and deck lid were done last year off of the car and are very flat. I will block them out after the other panels are done and the car has a coat of primer. 

I put some tape down to get a look at the body lines, that will be weeks away before I get filler on that area but I have to start planning it out.

[timmycharger]

Got a few more hours in this weekend, as expected, this is very slow going.    The driver's fender had a good amount of metal replacement/patches welded in around the area of the cowl/hood and needed a lot of body work.  I do not have a contour measuring tool so I had to make do with what I had. I know that the passenger fender was perfect so after using a ruler and a few mixing sticks, I made some tape markings measuring how concave the fender was at different points, then copied them on the driver side.   

I knocked down the filler with 80 then 180 grit, I still have some more fine sanding and shaping but I am very close.  So basically about 8 hours of work and all I did was finish most of the top of the driver's fender and door. 

Below are some pics of the slow process, and my arsenal of sanding blocks. I found out that a section of an old radiator hose makes a fantastic block for the area on top of the doors!!

[phantom]

Nice! Excited to see the progress and methods you use to get your results. Have a few patches to do on my own car before i start with epoxy primer and filler too.  Good luck, looks good! 

[Tina]

I am so thankful for this topic, and I think it is my favourite one nowadays   

[CDN72SE]

Very nice work!

[timmycharger]

Thank you! 


Got in a few more hours last night, not much to show for it still is vey slow going.  My strategy is to start at the top of the fenders/doors/quarters on both sides of the car, then work down to the sides of the car and work on the body lines. The front valance Is already blocked out from when it was off the car and the rear of the car including the lower corners will need some attention but that will be last.

surprisingly the top of the passenger door was very straight and I was able to block it very flat, Ill see how it looks with primer but I didn't think it needed any filler. The entire passenger side is much better and straighter from front to back.

We still have a few areas on the top of the drivers side that need to be smoothed out as well as the Dutchman panel which needed a lot of work.

[timmycharger]

 

[Dino]

Good job   

Have you considered using a high build spray filler before you start with primer?

[timmycharger]

Good job   

Have you considered using a high build spray filler before you start with primer?

I will definitely be looking into that as a possibility, my plan was once the filler work and sanding was done, to cover it with a high build primer, block that out, then repeat until as straight as possible.

[hemi68charger]

Looking great ........... Very nice you're able to do all this at home it appears.... 

[Dino]

Good job   

Have you considered using a high build spray filler before you start with primer?

I will definitely be looking into that as a possibility, my plan was once the filler work and sanding was done, to cover it with a high build primer, block that out, then repeat until as straight as possible.

I would have started with epoxy, and maybe you did, but if not then you can still get a great paint job so consider taking these steps:  Once you are done with filler I would use a spray filler.  This will give you the opportunity to block the car and get it laser straight instead of having to rely on doing this with a primer.  Spray filler is a very easy to use product and you can re-shoot the car or parts of it when you need to build it up more. 

Once the car is straight I would shoot it with epoxy as this is the only primer that is waterproof.  Fillers and a high build are like a sponge so you don't want to rely on those alone to protect the metal underneath.  The more metal you can cover with epoxy the better.  This is the stuff they use in the e-coat process.  You can simply shoot two-three coats of epoxy and follow it up with a high build primer without having to sand the epoxy.  The re-coat window depends on the manufacturer. 

Now you can block sand your primer on a car that is already straight so you won't have to do any hard work here.  You're simply flattening the primer to get it ready for paint.  When you're ready to lay the topcoat you take some more epoxy and thin it out so you can use it as a sealer.  Finish with either a single stage or bc/cc and you'll have a paint job that lasts.

Stick to the better known paint brands with a proven track record and try to stay with one brand to ensure compatible products.  It'll cost you a bit more but it will be worth it.  A paint job is never cheap and anything less than a great paint job with quality products would be money down the drain.

You will save a lot of money doing this by yourself and if you take your time to do it right then the end result will pay off in more ways than one. 

Keep doing what you're doing.   

[68pplcharger]

Good job   

Have you considered using a high build spray filler before you start with primer?

I will definitely be looking into that as a possibility, my plan was once the filler work and sanding was done, to cover it with a high build primer, block that out, then repeat until as straight as possible.

I would have started with epoxy, and maybe you did, but if not then you can still get a great paint job so consider taking these steps:  Once you are done with filler I would use a spray filler.  This will give you the opportunity to block the car and get it laser straight instead of having to rely on doing this with a primer.  Spray filler is a very easy to use product and you can re-shoot the car or parts of it when you need to build it up more. 

Once the car is straight I would shoot it with epoxy as this is the only primer that is waterproof.  Fillers and a high build are like a sponge so you don't want to rely on those alone to protect the metal underneath.  The more metal you can cover with epoxy the better.  This is the stuff they use in the e-coat process.  You can simply shoot two-three coats of epoxy and follow it up with a high build primer without having to sand the epoxy.  The re-coat window depends on the manufacturer. 

Now you can block sand your primer on a car that is already straight so you won't have to do any hard work here.  You're simply flattening the primer to get it ready for paint.  When you're ready to lay the topcoat you take some more epoxy and thin it out so you can use it as a sealer.  Finish with either a single stage or bc/cc and you'll have a paint job that lasts.

Stick to the better known paint brands with a proven track record and try to stay with one brand to ensure compatible products.  It'll cost you a bit more but it will be worth it.  A paint job is never cheap and anything less than a great paint job with quality products would be money down the drain.

You will save a lot of money doing this by yourself and if you take your time to do it right then the end result will pay off in more ways than one. 

Keep doing what you're doing.   

[timmycharger]

Thanks guys, yes I am lucky to be able to do all of this work at my home garage 

Good job   

Have you considered using a high build spray filler before you start with primer?

I will definitely be looking into that as a possibility, my plan was once the filler work and sanding was done, to cover it with a high build primer, block that out, then repeat until as straight as possible.

I would have started with epoxy, and maybe you did, but if not then you can still get a great paint job so consider taking these steps:  Once you are done with filler I would use a spray filler.  This will give you the opportunity to block the car and get it laser straight instead of having to rely on doing this with a primer.  Spray filler is a very easy to use product and you can re-shoot the car or parts of it when you need to build it up more. 

Once the car is straight I would shoot it with epoxy as this is the only primer that is waterproof.  Fillers and a high build are like a sponge so you don't want to rely on those alone to protect the metal underneath.  The more metal you can cover with epoxy the better.  This is the stuff they use in the e-coat process.  You can simply shoot two-three coats of epoxy and follow it up with a high build primer without having to sand the epoxy.  The re-coat window depends on the manufacturer. 

Now you can block sand your primer on a car that is already straight so you won't have to do any hard work here.  You're simply flattening the primer to get it ready for paint.  When you're ready to lay the topcoat you take some more epoxy and thin it out so you can use it as a sealer.  Finish with either a single stage or bc/cc and you'll have a paint job that lasts.

Stick to the better known paint brands with a proven track record and try to stay with one brand to ensure compatible products.  It'll cost you a bit more but it will be worth it.  A paint job is never cheap and anything less than a great paint job with quality products would be money down the drain.

You will save a lot of money doing this by yourself and if you take your time to do it right then the end result will pay off in more ways than one. 

Keep doing what you're doing.   

Thanks Dino, that is great information, much appreciated.  The way I did it was first, I had all of the panels sandblasted and coated in Dupont DP90 which I believe is an epoxy coating.  I then stripped down the shell and sprayed that along with all of the panels with epoxy primer (its the gray color now on the car). I don't remember the brand, but I do remember speaking to the rep at the paint supply shop who let me know it was ok to cover the DP90 with.  As you can see, I then put the filler over the epoxy primer.   

I really do like the idea of the spray filler, so once I am done with the filler, I would be ok to shoot it over that?  After I block out the sprayable filler, would that be when I would lay the primer/sealer down? I am going to look into a tinted primer/sealer since I am using PPG OMNI BC/CC which needs more coverage. I was thinking of buying 2 gallons of color, so after reduced, I will have 4 gallons of product.  I know lots of folks do not like the PPG Omni, but from what we sprayed so far, I am very happy with the results.

Thanks again for your input 

[Dino]

You did it right!  

You applied filler over epoxy which is the way to do it.  Yes you can do the spray filler right over the filler you have on there now.  Technically you want to do epoxy between the two as well but it's not earth shattering if you don't.  The whole purpose of the epoxy here is to have a water barrier.  This means that anytime you end up with bare metal, you add more epoxy.  In reality though, you'll end up sanding through the spray filler and epoxy again because you are going for a level surface.  

So I think in this case you can just shoot the spray filler over the plain filler and top that off with epoxy BEFORE you shoot your final high build primer.  Get the car as straight and smooth as you possibly can before doing the spray filler.  It's not designed to hide dents but merely to get rid of the final scratches and the transitions between filler and bare metal.  In essence you use it as if it were a thick primer.  Once you start sanding it you will be very happy to find out how nice you can block this stuff.  

Don't shoot that final primer without epoxy first or you'll lose the water barrier.  But again, you can do a wet in wet system here so you won't have to sand the epoxy at all.  SPI for example gives you a 7 day window to do this.  

The sealer goes on after your high build primer has been sanded and before your topcoat goes on.  You actually spray the sealer, let it flash, and follow with topcoat right away so these are all last step processes.

So to recap:
finish with regular filler work and sand it fairly smooth.  Nothing rougher than 150 grit, 220 may be better
>spray filler built up in thin layers, if you find spots that are still too deep then you can use plain filler on top of the spray filler later.
>block the spray filler and add spray filler or plain filler in areas that need more work.
>rinse and repeat until the car is straight
>epoxy primer to cover all bare metal.  At this point the body should be as straight as can be
>shoot high build primer over unsanded epoxy primer if you're within the re-coat window.  If not then you have to sand the epoxy so plan this right.
>block the high build primer, this should be a final blocking with lighter grits and you should not have to sand through this primer.  If you do, which is easy enough to do especially on the edges then the next step solves that problem
>thin the epoxy to use as a sealer and let it flash
>spray your topcoat system
>after you clean the paint equipment the paint should be set but nowhere near hard so here's when you can remove the masking tape and use a lint free cloth with a bit of lacquer thinner to smooth out any paint edges.  The thinner will melt the paint line.  Once the paint hardens you can use a drop of polish to get the shine back and this will give you a smooth and invisible transition.

PPG Omni is now Shopline. I used it on my engine bay and I should have read some reviews first.  The paint was ridiculously thin.  I ended up remixing it without and reducer and still it was super thin.  So I ended up just using hardener which gives you less end product to work with.  I used the 2nd out of 3 quality paints though so their top line may be better.  In any case you may want to consider using a better top coat.  If you need to use twice as much product then your savings are out of the window anyway.  Also this was SS paint so their base may be better.  

I always use a lot of base though and I use a dry spray feather technique after my wet coats to make sure the metallic is evenly divided and ensure proper coverage.  It uses more product but I've never had streaks or clouds doing it this way with any color.  Be sure to have one of those test cards with greys and blacks taped to your car so you can put equal amounts of paint on it and take out the guess work.  You're not done until you can't see the black on the card shine through anymore.  The car may look covered in your booth but you may end up rolling it out in the sun only to find out it's not entirely covered.  Don't go there!  Use the card.  

Tintable primer is always a good thing but in this case you can save a lot of money by tinting the epoxy as that will be your sealer before topcoat.  This way it doesn't matter what color your high build primer is.

SPI makes a very good epoxy and I did like their clear coat as well.  You may want to give them a call and see what type of topcoat they have to offer.

Alternatively you could spend a bit more and just go with PPG.  I used to paint with Glasurit in Europe which was my favorite by far, but I don't know if it's available here or even if it's still as good.  It's been a long time since I've used it.

[timmycharger]

Dino, thank you for this information, it is much appreciated. Ill be heading over to the paint supply shop next week to get more supplies so I will ask them about the spray filler and epoxy primer availablilty and what is available for BC/CC system if Omni is no longer available. I picked up my last batch of PPD Omni almost a year and a half, I wasn't aware that they switched to Shopline.

I honestly didn't think that the Omni was that bad. Even with the cheap gun we were using, I thought it laid down very nicely. After clear coating it, it looked pretty good. We did the engine bay, jambs, and inside trunk area, along with inside of all of the panels, hood, decklid.

Is Shopline a complete new formula?

[Dino]

I couldn't tell you to be honest. Someone here told me Omni became Shopline. I've never used Omni myself.

I only have used the single stage for my engine bay and it did lay nice, it dried fine, it's still glossy as hell and I'm super happy with how it looks, but man was that stuff thin! If I had sprayed it like one of the better known brands then the paint would've been on the floor! I had to be really careful with it.

Base coat is a completely different animal so you won't have that problem at all and clears are usually on the thicker side to begin with.

EDIT: I just realized I have used their base on my wife's car and there was absolutely nothing wrong with it.  It covered really nice and it sprayed great even with my cheap gun. I used SPI clear on top of that.

[timmycharger]

Dino, after working on the car this last weekend, I had a question about the spray filler.  Is the product very messy to use? I am worried about the area inside the panel gaps that are currently blue (body color) and I was expecting some overspray with the primers and then again with the color, but will the spray filler make it impossible for me to spray the car assembled? I did not plan on disassembling the car again.

Thoughts? Thanks!

[Dino]

No it's not messy at all, think of it as very thick primer. You're going to need a big tip and needle for your gun by the way.

Just mask of any painted jambs. If you place the masking tape right onto a sharp body line then you can spray right against it as it is very easy to break that line with sandpaper without going past the line. 

For example: place a strip of regular masking tape on the edge of the door jamb and quarter panel and add some wide tape on the jamb. I'm talking about the area where the door striker goes.
Place a wide strip of masking tape on the inside of the door and do it in such a way that half of the tape is stuck to the door and the other half isn't sticking to anything so when you close the door the non stick side hits the quarter panel and the sticky side is facing you.  Now gently push the sticky exposed side inward into the jamb so it sticks on the masking tape you placed on the inside jamb of the quarter panel.  Nothing's getting past that and the spray filler and primer is contained to where you want it.

[timmycharger]

Yes, I definitely agree about the jams and I like that idea, thank you. I may even try to slide some tape in the blind gap in the top of the fender where it meets the cowl and hood as that is body color also and I don't know if color will reach there when top coating.

Thanks again for your help Dino, on goes the battle...

[Dino]

For the gaps like fender to cowl there's a few ways to deal with it. The easiest is to stick some foam in there or paper towel or whatever. But you can also take some masking tape and cut/tear it in half lengthwise. Then stick one end right on the edge of the cowl and the other on the edge of the fender. They can be overlapped without going past the edges so nothing will get into the gap and all you have to do is sand the edge when you're done.

When using bc/clear you can carefully spray base into the gaps before spraying the rest of the car. When done just clear as usual.

[timmycharger]

Thanks Dino, great tips. For some reason, when I though of spray filler, I assumed it would be a huge mess. I made my way to the body shop supply store last week and picked up a can of Evercoat Featherfill. I watched a few videos of guys spraying it and it looked pretty straight forward. I will be super careful with my taping in the gaps.

Regarding tintable primer, the only one that he recommended was not an epoxy primer, but a urethane primer by Transtar, he said they didn't carry any epoxy primers that could be tinted, so I may need to look into another brand.   I am going to look into the SPI brand as you noted, I will confirm if they can be tinted with the PPG Omni blue, and if they make a high build primer product as well.  You mention to thin it out and use it as a sealer before top coat, would that still be ok with the tint?


also talked to them about the availability of the PPG Omni in B7 and they can still mix it up for me, they agreed with my concerns about the coverage and recommended I use the test cards to make sure it covers fully as you noted. My plan is to buy 2 gallons of base color, which after reducing will give me 4 gallons of sprayable product. I am hoping that will give me enough to put 4 coats of base on there at least.

Thanks again for your input Dino 

[Dino]

You're welcome.   

I haven't tinted any primers for so long and I can't remember what epoxies I did tint. They used to have special bottles for these things, we didn't use urethane paints to tint like they tend to do with a high build primer. Then still I'm not a huge fan of it because it changes the way it sands and once sanded will not have a real uniform color anyway. I find there is nothing wrong with just painting your base over a solid grey, white, or black primer. Just as you need to keep adding base to cover all aspects of a test card you spray the car this way as well. Sure you may end up using a bit more base but this is really not going to make a lot of difference in the long run.

I don't see any problem using a grey high build primer for example and mixing some white and black epoxy to do the sealing right before base coat. I painted my wife's roof blue metallic and had stark white SPI epoxy on the front of the roof. A few coats of blue and some clear and you cannot tell where the primer was.