what do you pay for car tuning?

[Stegs]

im just curious what you guys pay for engine/carb tuning at a professional shop

It seems the few shops we have local here charge by half days and full days


Parts are not included (like oil, gas, jets etc) which i can understand

But what do you guys pay.....my quotes seem a little high, but then again i have nothing to base it on

[myk]

The most popular domestic based speed shop here in San Diego charges $165 an hour.  And you just know that every job they pull will take HOURS. 

I never have and never will take any of my cars in to a speed shop.  Well, I tried to once and they attempted to rip me off, so never again.  I'll tune my cars myself, and even though I may never get it right I'd rather drive it like that than get worked over by an unscrupulous shop...

[Stegs]

The most popular domestic based speed shop here in San Diego charges $165 an hour.  And you just know that every job they pull will take HOURS. 

I never have and never will take any of my cars in to a speed shop.  Well, I tried to once and they attempted to rip me off, so never again.  I'll tune my cars myself, and even though I may never get it right I'd rather drive it like that than get worked over by an unscrupulous shop...

thats not bad

What i was quoted based on the standard hourly rate for a well know and professional shop

850 for 4 hours

1500 for a full day

add a wideband o2 bung in the exhaust for 75 dollars (with plug)

[birdsandbees]

Man I'm in the wrong business, the winged stuff I build from scratch, for $65 CDN an hour, can't just coast off to the side of the road when something fails! 

[el dub]

I paid 200 bucks to have a bung welded onto the headers and a super tune of the carb on a dyno machine.

[myk]

The most popular domestic based speed shop here in San Diego charges $165 an hour.  And you just know that every job they pull will take HOURS. 

I never have and never will take any of my cars in to a speed shop.  Well, I tried to once and they attempted to rip me off, so never again.  I'll tune my cars myself, and even though I may never get it right I'd rather drive it like that than get worked over by an unscrupulous shop...

thats not bad

What i was quoted based on the standard hourly rate for a well know and professional shop

850 for 4 hours

1500 for a full day

add a wideband o2 bung in the exhaust for 75 dollars (with plug)

Dude I'll take my chances with this website, my own tools and maybe a little luck.

Oh and after the header install my exhaust shop offered to install O2 bungs for free, but they tried to make up for it by charging $800 for e-cut outs...

[69wannabe]

I'm with you myk!! I'll keep picking and poking and adjusting til I get it running good. I don't have a wide band 02 reader I get my timing where I want it so it run's good, start's good and doesn't ping which is around 16 to 20 initial and 33-34 total advance with a mopar or firecore distributor and once that is set I drive it and if it has any lean stumbles I pull a spark plug or two and if it is too clean looking I start jetting up the primary part of the carb a couple of jet sizes at a time til the stumble is gone and the spark plugs start getting a little tanish color to them. Usually if it is lean like mine was going up a couple of jet sizes on the front side of the holley will improve the lean spot and if it doesn't completely cure it go up a couple more jet sizes and that usually will get rid of the stumble/lean spot. May not look good on a a/f reader but it runs down the road fine and it didn't cost me anything but some time and a couple of pair's of jet's.

[Stegs]

I'm with you myk!! I'll keep picking and poking and adjusting til I get it running good. I don't have a wide band 02 reader I get my timing where I want it so it run's good, start's good and doesn't ping which is around 16 to 20 initial and 33-34 total advance with a mopar or firecore distributor and once that is set I drive it and if it has any lean stumbles I pull a spark plug or two and if it is too clean looking I start jetting up the primary part of the carb a couple of jet sizes at a time til the stumble is gone and the spark plugs start getting a little tanish color to them. Usually if it is lean like mine was going up a couple of jet sizes on the front side of the holley will improve the lean spot and if it doesn't completely cure it go up a couple more jet sizes and that usually will get rid of the stumble/lean spot. May not look good on a a/f reader but it runs down the road fine and it didn't cost me anything but some time and a couple of pair's of jet's.

thats kinda how this whole thing started
I got a slight ping under full throttle with the firecore ignition. Now im not saying thats the issue...but my timing is set at 15 base...about 32 total

Im not 100% the cause of the ping, im using quality 93 octane fuel....

My timing may have been bumped off a little bit, or it could the carb on the secondary side...(bigger jets?)

The car starts up and runs really strong, no pinging when i slowly get into the throttle, its only when i floor it from a stop


My engine builder says he has a vac gauge where he can hook it up and see what the car likes as far as adjusting the carb

maybe that is where i should start? he also has a timing light and will be able to make adjustments


do you think 15 degrees base timing is not enough?

[1974dodgecharger]

That's alot of initial unless u have a big cam and that's where it ended up at when u went to 32 total?

Maybe heat might have a lot to do with pinging?

Compression? Try higher octane?

[Stegs]

That's alot of initial unless u have a big cam and that's where it ended up at when u went to 32 total?

Maybe heat might have a lot to do with pinging?

Compression? Try higher octane?

thats what Ron said to be at 15-16 and it was 32 if i remember right

cam is a stock style cam, nothing big

running 9.5 compression

carb is a eddy performer 600 cfm

plugs are xr5's gapped properly

[303 Mopar]

That's alot of initial unless u have a big cam and that's where it ended up at when u went to 32 total?

Maybe heat might have a lot to do with pinging?

Compression? Try higher octane?

thats what Ron said to be at 15-16 and it was 32 if i remember right

cam is a stock style cam, nothing big

running 9.5 compression

carb is a eddy performer 600 cfm

plugs are xr5's gapped properly

That eddy carb is about the worst carb you could have on your car.  Switch that out as soon as possible.

[RallyeMike]

$1500 for a day?      I hope that was for 24 hours

[ACUDANUT]

 Go Holley !!

[Stegs]

Go Holley !!

i want to go with a holley, but i was told dont do a holley, do a proform

i was going to order a avenger 750 electric choke, vac secondaries

Then i had a few people say dont order than, get a proform....


I have no idea what works on these motors....(im use to jeeps) 440s never came in jeeps so i dont know what works/dont work

[Stegs]

$1500 for a day?      I hope that was for 24 hours

8 hours

[Patronus]

Im having a bit of trouble with a Holley. My mechanic/40 year drag racer says pull it.

[myk]

Well, it's all about money really. 

If I could afford the mythical perfection that came with the price of a speed shop then I would probably do it.  As such, I can't afford it, I can barely afford the gas and the parts alone. 

That speedshop that I mentioned earlier bragged to me about how many thousands a customer had spent to buy a Laguna Seca edition Mustang, and how after they were done with it the customer would pay the same amount to them in 'mods and tuning.  Someone clearly has money to burn but hey, good for them...

[Stegs]

Well, it's all about money really. 

If I could afford the mythical perfection that came with the price of a speed shop then I would probably do it.  As such, I can't afford it, I can barely afford the gas and the parts alone. 

That speedshop that I mentioned earlier bragged to me about how many thousands a customer had spent to buy a Laguna Seca edition Mustang, and how after they were done with it the customer would pay the same amount to them in 'mods and tuning.  Someone clearly has money to burn but hey, good for them...

right

well i will probably just enjoy the car now, it will be in storage here in a few months

I will order a proform carb over winter so its ready to go in the spring

Right now i have a few things i need to get done with the house before fall/winter....so thats what im going to focus on now

[69wannabe]

The street avenger carbs are not a good choice unless you are good at carb tuning. The old holley 750 dual line 3310 is a good choice and isn't as expensive as a proform. It's a 4160 series holley carb and i'm pretty sure you can get it with a electric choke. Something to consider on a budget is the summit racing brand carb's, and they offer a 750 vacuum secondary carb too!!!!
Friend of mine just put a summit carb 600 vacuum secondary carb on a 55 chevy and it ran great right out of the box he say's so that may be something to look into....

[Dino]

Try 12 degrees initial, leave the vacuum advance capped.  Or drive east and we'll see if we can fix this.  I've had a lot of practice tuning ignition and carbs over the years.   

Jeff, another member here, is close by and knows a lot more than I do.

I also have 2 more Eddy carbs here to try.  Oh and you can grab those headers from me as well.   

[c00nhunterjoe]

This is a loaded question. Did that 850 include dyno pulls? That would play a huge difference in costs.
   I hate the "how much should it cost to tune my car" arguements. In my opinion, its not possible to give that number because it doesnt exist. Every car is different. Every customer has had their hands on it, along with their buddys, and usually, by the time its made its way to the shop we have a basket case.
    I dont know that shops labor rate, or what all they quoted you to do, but i can tell you this. I dont like doing old cars through the shop. Its a losing money game for all of the above reasons and then some. BUT, it does occasionally happen. I have done everything from set up 8 second race car suspensions to basic upgrades on big blocks. I dont have set rates in these cases because thats impossible and if you sit down and think about anything youve EVER done to your 50 year old car, you will understand.
   For example; my standard rate for a 4 wheel alignment is 99.95. Now if a tube chassis race car comes in and wants a 4 wheel alignment after replacing all of his bearings and heim joints, is that fair for me to only get the standard rate when he and i both know i will be on the rack for a long time? No, no its not.
   

[Stegs]

Try 12 degrees initial, leave the vacuum advance capped.  Or drive east and we'll see if we can fix this.  I've had a lot of practice tuning ignition and carbs over the years.  

Jeff, another member here, is close by and knows a lot more than I do.

I also have 2 more Eddy carbs here to try.  Oh and you can grab those headers from me as well.  

man, you drive a hard bargain! I do want those headers...but i got to get this carb thing figured out.

I did adjust it at idle as far as the mixture screws...seemed to help very slightly...(if any) other than the car seemed to idle better and had slightly better throttle response

The part i cant figure out, the car runs fantastic cruising...even some spirited driving is great. But when you get on the gas i feel like there is some slight pinging going on...which could very well be the timing

I had the timing set 3 months ago according to rons specs with firecore ignition...15-16 degrees at idle......now you say to go back to 12, and cap the advance timing??


I wish i could make the drive out there...but i dont trust my tires on that long of journey.....i need new rubber before i make that trip (also the reason i need to postpone on your headers)

[c00nhunterjoe]

15-16 is just the initial... what is the total? Then what is full advance with the vacuum hooked up? You need to answer those questions before you go moving the distributor.

[myk]

You should message Ron and ask for his advice.  He's very supportive of his Firecore customers.

Are you setting the timing yourself?  What sort of a timing light do you have?

[Stegs]

15-16 is just the initial... what is the total? Then what is full advance with the vacuum hooked up? You need to answer those questions before you go moving the distributor.

Im sorry i dont remember, like i said it was 3, almost 4 months ago and i dont remember.

I will try and find someone with a timing light and see if we can check it. I dont have have a tach in my car, so im not sure how i will know its 3000 rpms

[Dino]

12 degrees initial is just a good starting point.  I agree with messaging Ron.  

Don't worry about the headers, they're not in my way.  

[Stegs]

You should message Ron and ask for his advice.  He's very supportive of his Firecore customers...

I did, he is very helpful! He said multiple times to me 15-16 initial , 32ish by 3000 rpms....

I did switch the champion plugs out for ngk xr5 plugs, i wonder if i should go back to champions and try those?  


But from what i understand the timing in these old cars can vibrate loose and change on you?....(again, im new to this...being a jeep guy everything had a ECM)

It could have vibrated off what it was set at

[Stegs]

12 degrees initial is just a good starting point.  I agree with messaging Ron.  

Don't worry about the headers, they're not in my way.  

you ever figure out brand or a part number on those?

[myk]

15-16 is just the initial... what is the total? Then what is full advance with the vacuum hooked up? You need to answer those questions before you go moving the distributor.

Im sorry i dont remember, like i said it was 3, almost 4 months ago and i dont remember.

I will try and find someone with a timing light and see if we can check it. I dont have have a tach in my car, so im not sure how i will know its 3000 rpms

You really should invest in a timing light.  My personal recommendation is the Innova 3568, as it features an advance/retard feature and a built in tachometer.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but to answer Coonhunter's question you need to do these things:

1. Determine initial timing
2. Determine vacuum advance timing
3. Determine mechanical advance timing.

The sum of those three metrics will give you your "total timing" number and help us to determine if the timing is your issue.

[Dino]

12 degrees initial is just a good starting point.  I agree with messaging Ron.  

Don't worry about the headers, they're not in my way.  

you ever figure out brand or a part number on those?

I have not but did not check the flange yet.  I'll clean them up and get back to you.

[Stegs]

15-16 is just the initial... what is the total? Then what is full advance with the vacuum hooked up? You need to answer those questions before you go moving the distributor.

Im sorry i dont remember, like i said it was 3, almost 4 months ago and i dont remember.

I will try and find someone with a timing light and see if we can check it. I dont have have a tach in my car, so im not sure how i will know its 3000 rpms

You really should invest in a timing light.  My personal recommendation is the Innova 3568, as it features an advance/retard feature and a built in tachometer.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but to answer Coonhunter's question you need to do these things:

1. Determine initial timing
2. Determine vacuum advance timing
3. Determine mechanical advance timing.

The sum of those three metrics will give you your "total timing" number and help us to determine if the timing is your issue.

i will by a light (i probably should)

i know initial timing (warm idle)

what is vac advance? vs mechanical?

Im assuming vac advance is with the distributor hooked up and then rev it to a certain rpms.....like 3000 (per rons advice)

then whats mechanical advance?


being its my birthday on friday, i should tell the wife i need a timing light for a gift 

[myk]

You got it.  When you leave your vacuum advance hooked up and raise your idle to about 3K RPM you will get your vacuum advance number.  

To get your mechanical advance number, disconnect and plug your vacuum advance, then raise your idle to 3K RPM again.  This will be your mechanical advance number.  Add the initial timing, to your vacuum advance number, and then to your mechanical advance number, and then you will have your total timing number.  This would be easy to do with the timing light I mentioned.

Again, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Keep in mind that Ron states the Firecore distributors ship preset with 20-22 degrees of mechanical timing.

[Stegs]

You got it.  When you leave your vacuum advance hooked up and raise your idle to about 3K RPM you will get your vacuum advance number.  

To get your mechanical advance number, disconnect and plug your vacuum advance, then raise your idle to 3K RPM again.  This will be your mechanical advance number.  Add the initial timing, to your vacuum advance number, and then to your mechanical advance number, and then you will have your total timing number.  This would be easy to do with the timing light I mentioned.

Again, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Keep in mind that Ron states the Firecore distributors ship preset with 20-22 degrees of mechanical timing.

thank you. Your very helpful. Im trying to learn, i have alot of questions on how to do things....hints why i am here

When i get the light, i will check it and adjust accordingly


I watched as it was adjusted about 3 months ago, he loosened a nut on the distributor and then turn the body of the distributor one way, im assuming turning the body clockwise raised the timing?

How often should you check and adjust your timing on average?

[myk]

Ron and Neil helped me with setting the timing on my car back in 2005; I haven't touched it since about a month ago, when I checked it and it was just where I left it.  I don't see a need to check timing unless something breaks or gets changed.

As for adjusting the timing yes-turning the distributor will either advance or retard the timing.  Honestly, I can't remember which way does what lol...

[Stegs]

Ron and Neil helped me with setting the timing on my car back in 2005; I haven't touched it since about a month ago, when I checked it and it was just where I left it.  I don't see a need to check timing unless something breaks or gets changed.

As for adjusting the timing yes-turning the distributor will either advance or retard the timing.  Honestly, I can't remember which way does what lol...

ill play around with it, ill shoot for 12 degrees initial, and 32ish with vac advance i guess...