Need help with ball joints. They don't come out.

[krnai555]

I'm new to this forum, and new to the ownership of a gorgeous 1973 dodge charger. I was finally able to scratch something off my bucket list two weeks ago when I picked her up.

When I bought it, it did have a few small issues with it, but I'd like to think I got a great deal out of it. I bought her in full working condition with a few small quirks (ball joints need replacing, there's a leak from the tranny pan, power steering pump need replacing, and of course interior needs to be redone since the owner before last put in van bucket seats and carpet is a mess)

So this past weekend I took it upon my self to start to replace the ball joints. It was a hurdle at every bolt (obviously, because some of those bolts haven't been touched since 1973) but last night, I finally got it down to the ball joints. I was able to get as far as unscrewing both the top and bottom ball joints, but then for the life of me, I could not get them out. I spent a good 4 hours trying to separate the ball joint, but it just wouldn't come out.

Now I'm not saying I tried everything, but I tried everything (my limited mind) could think of. I tried to play nice by dousing it in PB blaster and then unscrewing it some more, but the ball joint just kept spinning in place without any indication that it was coming out any further.  Then I tried using the pickle fork, by trying to wedge it in and pry it apart. Nope. Nada. I even tried to tap it carefully from side to side with a hammer, but it wiggled a little in place and in the end didn't come out. I'm not sure if I was being too gentle with them? and maybe they do need a good pounding to get them out, but I was a little scared of damaging the knuckle that they sit in. So I didn't go too aggressive.

I want to also mention that my mechanics skills and experience go as far as being able to change the oil and filters in my car. That's it. So here I am trying asking for any and all advice. Please let me know what I can do to get the ball joints out.

TL;DR: Trying to remove ball joint, ball joint unscrews and then spins in place but does not come out any further than 5 threads.

[gcdsn76]

My guess is that the threads are stripped and you are screwed. The Upper Control Arm is now worth about what is weighs. The good news is that replacements are available, but are not cheap.

[krnai555]

But I'm having the same problem with both the uppers and lowers. Is it really possible that both sets of threads are stripped?

[krnai555]

The ball joint did come out partially. Just doesn't come out all the way (See pic) does it need to be knocked out the rest of the way?

[Troy]

It sort of looks like the bottom of the joint is still connected to the spindle in your picture. You need to separate the upper and lower arms from the spindle *before* removing the ball joints from the arms. That's what the other thread about tools is for - to break that joint loose.

Troy

[krnai555]

I must be missing something dead simple, because the spindle isn't connected to anything in that picture. Its hanging by the ball joint. I undid the castle nut and took out the cotter pin. But the spindle did not come out. I even used a Fork between the upper control arm and the spindle to try to wedge them apart. But still nothing.

I guess, I'll take it apart again tonight and take another look, to completely make sure that I'm not missing something (like removing a washer, that has wedged itself up against the bottom of the spindle arm) But from everything I remember yesterday, I took every bolt off the spindle and that spindle arm was free. It was connected only by the ball joint and for some reason it wouldn't drop out of the way.

Tell me, normally speaking with a '73 charger, does the ball joint simply unscrew and come right out? Or does it need to be "knocked" out at some point?

[RallyeMike]

The spindle needs to be completely separated from the ball joint. Once the castle nut is off, it needs to be forced off the ball joint with the pickle fork. This is a tapered compression fit - you need to smack it hard, several times. Its best done before you unscrew the ball joint - so screw it back down first. After separation from the spindle, then the ball joint will screw right out of the arm.

Edit - You may have to hammer directly on the spindle if the fork wont do the job.

[Troy]

Right, it's a friction fit so just undoing the nut doesn't mean it's loose. I hate pickle forks (mainly because they destroy just about everything they touch) but if you're replacing the ball joints you really don't care if they're trashed in the process. Definitely screw them back in though or the threads will be a mess from pounding on them.

Troy

[krnai555]

Gotcha. Thank you. I'm going to give it another shot tomorrow after work (sadly the beast will remain untouched today). I'll post again and update once I give it another go.

[1973rallye]

I must be missing something dead simple, because the spindle isn't connected to anything in that picture. Its hanging by the ball joint. I undid the castle nut and took out the cotter pin. But the spindle did not come out. I even used a Fork between the upper control arm and the spindle to try to wedge them apart. But still nothing.

I guess, I'll take it apart again tonight and take another look, to completely make sure that I'm not missing something (like removing a washer, that has wedged itself up against the bottom of the spindle arm) But from everything I remember yesterday, I took every bolt off the spindle and that spindle arm was free. It was connected only by the ball joint and for some reason it wouldn't drop out of the way.

Tell me, normally speaking with a '73 charger, does the ball joint simply unscrew and come right out? Or does it need to be "knocked" out at some point?

I have replaced uppers and lowers on both of my cars. Do not hammer it out. Once they are backed out they should come right out. Careful installing the new, you do not want to cross thread.

[A383Wing]

the lowers are screw in also??

[Pete in NH]

Hi,

Welcome to the group. Do yourself a big favor and get a copy of the factory service manual for your car. It will show you how to remove both the upper and lower ball joints and the tools required. No one should own one of these cars without the manual, it's full of all kinds of things that  were once common knowledge but isn't so much anymore. These cars are rally 40 year old time capsules.

The lower ball joints are part of the lower steering control am and bolt on once you get the stud out of the lower control arm.

I would think if the upper ball joint stud is free and the ball joint just spins in the control arm the threads are stripped and the right way to address the issue is a new upper control arm. I know some guys tack weld the joints into a stripped control arm but I wouldn't risk it.

[krnai555]

the lowers are screw in also??

Yes the lowers are also screw in.

And I do not believe the threads are stripped, cause I am able  to properly screw them down again. I should've worded my earlier statement better. When I said that it spins, I didn't mean that it spins freely. It still requires a wrench and some effort to make the joint rotate. But what seems to be happening is, that the ball joint has come up about 5 threads (out of 8 ) and then it does not unscrew any further. It simply keeps turning in the same spot, as if to imply that the ball joint is already out of the threads, but is still holding on to the spindle.

Do yourself a big favor and get a copy of the factory service manual for your car. It will show you how to remove both the upper and lower ball joints and the tools required. No one should own one of these cars without the manual, it's full of all kinds of things that  were once common knowledge but isn't so much anymore.

The first time around when I tried to separate the spindle I followed the FSM.
The FSM calls for the use of a special tool (C-3564) that sits on the ball joint stud, and then the top screw of the tool is to be screwed down onto the stud, and then the directions say to strike the steering knuckle with a hammer to knock it free of the ball joint.

But I think I was probably not using enough force/was too scared to call forth the power of Hercules and smite the spindle with my hammer, in fear of damaging it. Did the same thing with a pickle fork. But since then I've asked around and have been told that I probably didn't use enough force, and to keep in mind that these parts have probably been together for more than 40 years.

[gcdsn76]

I was finally able to get my upper and lowers separated from the knuckle, but it took some ingenuity. I used a Pitman arm puller and a big C-Clamp to hold the jaws of the puller together while I turned the screw. It came apart with a very loud pop.

[HPP]

The pictured linked above looks like the ball joint in unscrewing enough to allow the spindle to interfere with the control arm. Without taking the spindle off, you'll never get the ball joint out.

[krnai555]

The pictured linked above looks like the ball joint in unscrewing enough to allow the spindle to interfere with the control arm. Without taking the spindle off, you'll never get the ball joint out.

Yea. That's right. That's exactly what I was told by several people here in the forum and others. I also failed to mention in a young whipper-snapper with damn near zero experience with cars. Buying this car was a way for me to become more aware and experienced with cars and machines in general.

I did get the ball joints separated last night, but as I took that one step forward I also took about 4 steps back. The ball joints came out fine and dandy without damaging the control arms. But as I cleaned up the lower control arm, I noticed that the threads in the control arm were pretty worn out. They were reduced to mere bumps, instead of the crisp threading they are supposed to be. I'm going to go on a limb here and say that the lower control arm needs to be replaced at this point (I know that some people have spot-welded their ball joints in place to avoid replacing the control arms, but I want to do this right way)

Until now I was only chasing the inspection sticker, I know that my shocks need to be replaced as well, they're pretty much gone; So I will be replacing those as well (I might as well, right?) If I'm replacing the lower control arm, I might as well do the shocks now.

Also do torsion bars accrue stress over time? Do they need to be replaced at some time? How do I go about inspecting them?

Any advice on any of the things I mentioned earlier would be much appreciated.

[RallyeMike]

The threads in the a-arm were never very pronounced. If you can screw the ball joint back in and it tightens up, you are good.

Torsion bars like any spring slowly wear out, but the great thing with torsion bars is that you can reset the ride height with the adjuster. There is really no reason to replace them unless yo want to upgrade to heavier spring rates. I would only consider replacing them in that case, or if they have any large nicks in them.

[krnai555]

The threads in the a-arm were never very pronounced. If you can screw the ball joint back in and it tightens up, you are good.

Ok, sweet. That's actually really good news. I felt pretty disappointed when I saw that the lower control arm threads looked "dull". Sweet, then all I gotta do is get myself the proper lower ball joints and it'll hopefully be ready to ride next week.