383 450-500HP budget/reliable

[draglov]

Hi Guy's

I'm quite new in this forum. I know you have heard this question a million times, but some have I haven't found an answer.
How to get budget/reliable 450-500 HP out of 383 ?
Main usage will be cruising around, maybe light-to-light races, so it would be great having an 'normal' MPG out of it.
Gearbox is A833, I was thinking to rebuild that as well, what would you suggest ( parts to use)?
And rear end is no Dana 60, what improvements should I make to make it reliable as well ?

Best Regards,

Ed

[BSB67]

What is your budget, and what do you want to include in your budget, and parts are you starting with.  Budget and reliable are variable.  You need to be clear.

[heyoldguy]

So, I see on eBay where there is a 383/489 stroker with 560 HP for $15,400. As a minimum you only want 80% of that horsepower so I figure that would be about $12,275. How's that sound?

[Back N Black]

Build a 440 and get that HP for half the price. 

[draglov]

What is your budget, and what do you want to include in your budget, and parts are you starting with.  Budget and reliable are variable.  You need to be clear.

Let's say 10K in parts ( engine, gearbox, rear end). Which parts can remain original, which must be changed to achieve the goal ?

Build a 440 and get that HP for half the price.  

I have numbers matching 383, so I would like keep it. As far as I found out there is no difference ( in cost) if you build 440 or 383

R,

Ed

[440]

10k won't get you very far if your trying to do the entire driveline, I think you'll get "close" to your figures if you spent 10k on the engine alone.

[tan top]

 
not a 383 , but can be dressed up  to look like one , to the untrained chebby guys eye 



http://www.musclemotorsracing.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=86&Itemid=123

[BSB67]

What is your budget, and what do you want to include in your budget, and parts are you starting with.  Budget and reliable are variable.  You need to be clear.

Let's say 10K in parts ( engine, gearbox, rear end). Which parts can remain original, which must be changed to achieve the goal ?

Build a 440 and get that HP for half the price.  

I have numbers matching 383, so I would like keep it. As far as I found out there is no difference ( in cost) if you build 440 or 383

R,

Ed

Okay.  What else do you have now?  What rear end and gear?, Do you have a scatter shield and steel flywheel?  Do you already have headers or HP manifolds.  Do you have an exhaust system, if so, tell us about that. What do you have for a radiator?  What carbs and intakes do you have available?  Front suspension and brakes good?

Depending on your answers to the above, we just spent between $0 and $5000.  

To achieve you budget and goals, you need a plan.  You need to be very very clear on exactly what you want the car to be when it is done, an inventory of what you have and what you want, and then adjust accordingly to fit your budget.

And, size matters.  383 and 440 might cost the same to rebuild, but the 440 will make more power.  You will need to do more to a 383 to make the same power as a 440.  Generally speaking, it is pretty easy to get 1hp/cu.in.  450 hp from a 440 is pretty easy, and the motor can be nice and docile for street cruising.  383, not so much.  If you want a big lumpy cam, crap idle, crummy low end response, more gear ratio, a bunch of rpms while cruising, go 383.  Again, you need a plan for what the car will be.

[1974dodgecharger]

go with 440 as people said same price more power.

Here's a 383 with 500hp engine and close to 400hp to wheels with A833. Thats 8k engine. Daily driver, takes a beating in AZ heat 110 plus....

http://youtu.be/agy1GhGGm9s

[Scaregrabber]

I'm not as smart as some of the guys on here but: You need crankwork, new pistons, rings, bearings and rod work to just do a stock rebuild on a 383. larger cubes will make more HP and more torque easier and more street friendlier. Last I looked (probably a year ago) 440Source had a stroker crank to make a 383 into a 426 for around $2k, that includes machined crank, new rods and pistons. I can't remember if it included bearings and rings. So right away you've gained 43 cubes for very little $$$ but wait there's more. For the same price I believe they offer a longer stroke kit as well for even more cubes and more torque. There is a price to pay with the longer stroke kits though so that's where the tradeoffs come into play
Anyway one of these will go right into your 383 block and make your goals a lot easier to attain. Myself for 450HP and figuring on driving it 100,000 miles I'd go the 426 kit, for 500HP and driving it 10,000 miles I would use a longer stroke kit. So you can see you need clear goals to get the best results.
Having said that, I wouldn't use the small bore 383 block at all unless it's the original block for the car and you want to keep it matching #'s. The larger bore of a 400 or 440 block will shroud the valves less and there is absolutely no downside to using them.

Sheldon

[ACUDANUT]

383's are great engines, but I don't know about getting 450-500 HP out of them, without spending a lot of money.  A 383 with 400 HP is good enough for me.

[1974dodgecharger]

think we scared the OP away 

[69wannabe]

BSB67 is dead right on this, I started out with a 383 in my charger and being inexperienced in the mopar world I decided the 383 would be good enough so I rebuilt it with speed pro forged pistons, stock crank and rods and a 274 extreme energy comp cam with stock 452 head's on it. Had headers and 2 1/2 inch exhaust and a 670 holley street avenger carb with a DP4B intake and the mopar ignition conversion on it. Tranny was a 833 23 spline 4-speed with a 8 3/4 rear with 355 gears. The car ran fine but wasn't no powerhouse by no mean's. The cam was a little big I think for that gear so it was a little soft in the lower rpm's but ran good otherwise. I can say I was rough on this engine and it held up to all the rpm's I threw at it. It was a dependable and actually got decent fuel mileage (14mpg) but it was lacking the HP I was looking for. I found a 72 440 with a steel crank and stock bore for a deal so I grabbed it up and started a rebuild on it. I basically built the engine very similar to the 383 rebuild, 2355 speed pro pistons, stock crank and rods, same exact camshaft, and I did do more with the head's this time with oversized valves on a set of 346 castings and an RPM intake with a 750 double pumper holley carb. Did also put a set of PRW stainless rocker's on it too. Exhaust system was retained.  The power and torque was like daylight and dark difference between the 383 and the 440 when I swapped them out. I know there were some distinct differences in the 440 build but I am not sure bigger valves and an rpm intake would have made the 383 perform any better and from driving a few 440's that I had built for my friend's I knew what I needed to do to get my car moving!!!!

[c00nhunterjoe]

400 hp is easy to get out of a 383. 450 is just a little more money in headwork. The problem comes with your budget and the no brainer choice that should be made when building the bottom end. To buy a GOOD set of CORRECT compression height pistons for a 383 will cost 3/4 that of a 438 rotating assembly. So the no brainer is to buy a small stroker kit. The 383 to 438 (3.75 440 crank) with mild pump gas compression and a decent set of heads will have no problem getting the 450-500 flywheel hp.

[BSB67]

Hmmm.  I think the compression is easy and cheap  450 hp still takes some work.  Can certainly be done, just not what I would want in a street motor.

The low dollar 2315 piston, your favorite low dollar 75 cc aluminum head, and 0.040" quench and you'll have between 10.2 to 10.5 CR.  You can get to 10.8 with a little extra milling.

[500Jon]

Never ever, hot-up a numbers matchin MOTOR!
Get a 71-72 400 block and put a stroker kit in there.
Any well prepped head will give you 450 horses.
If the budget allows get some quality ali heads.
Then 500 is on the cards...
5J

[68charger440]

Never ever, hot-up a numbers matchin MOTOR!
Get a 71-72 400 block and put a stroker kit in there.
Any well prepped head will give you 450 horses.
If the budget allows get some quality ali heads.
Then 500 is on the cards...
5J

I've gone back and forth in my own mind on keeping my original 383 and have kept it all these years.
... as someone here told me in another thread some buyers will want it and some won't, but if you have it you can satisfy anyone when you sell it.  You can always get rid of it if a buyer doesn't want it, so between the 440 being easier to make the power and the possibility that someone will want the original unmolested motor, I would build a 440.   in fact that is what I have done, and don't regret it.

[c00nhunterjoe]

In my opinion, "origonal motor" means origonal block and nothing more. If its worn out and you "rebuild it to stock" then how is that any more origonal then rebuilding it with any other internals? Rebuilt is rebuilt. Period.

[68charger440]

In my opinion, "origonal motor" means origonal block and nothing more. If its worn out and you "rebuild it to stock" then how is that any more origonal then rebuilding it with any other internals? Rebuilt is rebuilt. Period.

I think there it the whole range of people out there from those who want every last nut and bolt original even if it is a bit worn out, to those who don't care at all as long as it runs good and looks good.  Me, I'll take the extra power and reliability since I don't want a trailer queen, I want to drive it every weekend in the summer, but I think there is a place for all.

[1974dodgecharger]

again why did you guys scare the OP away 

[68charger440]

The money we spend on these cars scares me all the time.

[rt green]

the original OP will be back when he comes out of shock.  yes I too would stuff the 383 in the corner, keep it, and go for the 440. why wouldn't you.  keep the  383 pie tin on the air filter housing if you have to.

[Ghoste]

Definitely keep the 383 pie tin on there.   

[1974dodgecharger]

Definitely keep the 383 pie tin on there.   

lmao 

[Challenger340]

Dunno if the OP is still around.

You can do 425 hp from a .030" stock 383, with 444 Ft/Lbs.
It can be done, and does NOT require a ton of exotic or expensive parts.
Keep in mind this is with a 274H, more is on tap with a larger Cam

This is one our Shop did about 6 years ago for a Customer using stock cast pistons, iron heads W/stock 2.08"/1.74" valves

And while I will NOT argue the Stroker route if you are so inclined..... keep in mind a Stroker will end up FAR MORE expensive than this 383 !
(you can damn near BUILD this for the price of the Stroker Kit alone)
It's all in what a guy wants I guess ?
But these are very fun little engines, and usually can be plenty to put a smile on a guy's face within a budget.

Upgrades:
ARP Rod Bolts
H.V. Oil Pump
Comp 274H cam
Adjustable Ductile Iron Rockers/Pushrods
Torker 383 Intake & 750 cfm Holley

Labor:
Block Machine Pkg
Head Rebuild Pkg
extra Block & head Milling to "set" for 9.2:1(nowadays just buy a KB 9:1 Piston, but we were using the stock "cast" low C.R. piston back then)
Bowl Port / Gasket match Heads / properly done Valve Grind and Angles.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Dunno if the OP is still around.

You can do 425 hp from a .030" stock 383, with 444 Ft/Lbs.
It can be done, and does NOT require a ton of exotic or expensive parts.
Keep in mind this is with a 274H, more is on tap with a larger Cam

This is one our Shop did about 6 years ago for a Customer using stock cast pistons, iron heads W/stock 2.08"/1.74" valves

And while I will NOT argue the Stroker route if you are so inclined..... keep in mind a Stroker will end up FAR MORE expensive than this 383 !
(you can damn near BUILD this for the price of the Stroker Kit alone)
It's all in what a guy wants I guess ?
But these are very fun little engines, and usually can be plenty to put a smile on a guy's face within a budget.

Upgrades:
ARP Rod Bolts
H.V. Oil Pump
Comp 274H cam
Adjustable Ductile Iron Rockers/Pushrods
Torker 383 Intake & 750 cfm Holley

Labor:
Block Machine Pkg
Head Rebuild Pkg
extra Block & head Milling to "set" for 9.2:1(nowadays just buy a KB 9:1 Piston, but we were using the stock "cast" low C.R. piston back then)
Bowl Port / Gasket match Heads / properly done Valve Grind and Angles.

[BSB67]

Dunno if the OP is still around.

You can do 425 hp from a .030" stock 383, with 444 Ft/Lbs.
It can be done, and does NOT require a ton of exotic or expensive parts.
Keep in mind this is with a 274H, more is on tap with a larger Cam

This is one our Shop did about 6 years ago for a Customer using stock cast pistons, iron heads W/stock 2.08"/1.74" valves

And while I will NOT argue the Stroker route if you are so inclined..... keep in mind a Stroker will end up FAR MORE expensive than this 383 !
(you can damn near BUILD this for the price of the Stroker Kit alone)
It's all in what a guy wants I guess ?
But these are very fun little engines, and usually can be plenty to put a smile on a guy's face within a budget.

Upgrades:
ARP Rod Bolts
H.V. Oil Pump
Comp 274H cam
Adjustable Ductile Iron Rockers/Pushrods
Torker 383 Intake & 750 cfm Holley

Labor:
Block Machine Pkg
Head Rebuild Pkg
extra Block & head Milling to "set" for 9.2:1(nowadays just buy a KB 9:1 Piston, but we were using the stock "cast" low C.R. piston back then)
Bowl Port / Gasket match Heads / properly done Valve Grind and Angles.

Bob, Thanks for posting.

Are the fuel mass consumption rates correct?  They seem way low for the power output.  Shouldn't they be in the 170 #/hr. range at 430 hp?  Was the flow split?