I don't think the sand will ever stop falling out...

[MxRacer855]

From the sand blasting to hidden dirt in the frame rails... it just won't stop coming out of my car no matter what I do. 

I spent the entire day today blasting the freshly painted rolling chassis to get it all out. 
We did this for countless hours before the body shop, but I just don't know where all of it keep coming from! 

I'm getting to the point where there's only a handful of grains on each blow of the air gun... the rest are going to have to rattle out when the vehicle becomes operational.

Anyone else deal with this??

Jeff

[cbrestorations]

i pulled 5 gallons of sand out of my roadrunner when i had it blasted, probly spun it 10 times on the rotisserie with air gun

[MxRacer855]

It's incredible!

I think I'm up to a half gallon right now (after the car has already been blown out and painted!)

[Dino]

Don't blow it out, vacuum it.  For blasted cars we had a reverse air gun.  You stick the gun down the rail, with a long nozzle, and the sand would come out the back through a hose.  Kinda like a vacuum on steroids.   

[hemi-hampton]

Just had this same problem with a Black 69 Roadrunner I just painted (not the first time). Engine comp & undercarriage Sandblasted & or media blasted. Spents hours blowing it out until it seemed to stop. But it really never stops. Not Fun having to paint a car worrying about some sand popping out while in the middle of painting. LEON.

[Mike DC]

Give up on ever getting it all. 

[six-tee-nine]

Yep same here...

I spent countless hours on it, then while painting the underside some sand pours out of a frame rail opening right into the fresh paint 
You would not believe how much sand there was left in the roof structure after I pulled the roof skin...

I found it easier when the body was onto the rotisserie being able to rock the car from side to side to get the stuff out.

At this point I guess most of it is out except for some small amounts in the frame rails.

As Dino said I used a shop vac as much as I could, extending the tip with a small flexible hose taped to it, wich I shoved it all corners and places I could get it in. Compressed air just moves the stuff from one unwanted place to another

[MxRacer855]

Yep same here...

I spent countless hours on it, then while painting the underside some sand pours out of a frame rail opening right into the fresh paint 
You would not believe how much sand there was left in the roof structure after I pulled the roof skin...

I found it easier when the body was onto the rotisserie being able to rock the car from side to side to get the stuff out.

At this point I guess most of it is out except for some small amounts in the frame rails.

As Dino said I used a shop vac as much as I could, extending the tip with a small flexible hose taped to it, wich I shoved it all corners and places I could get it in. Compressed air just moves the stuff from one unwanted place to another

Right onto the fresh paint is right!   
It's gut wrenching o see, but can be carefully removed.

I think I'm at the stage where I can walk away somewhat satisfied.
Wow, what a frustrating process.

Thanks for all of the advice guys!

[bakerhillpins]

So is it better to go with dipping the car then to media blast it? I know there are issues if either isn't done correctly causing panel damage or bent roofs but assuming you have it done correctly.  

I've wondered into this conversation in the past and it always seems like there are 2 camps on dipping vs media blasting. One says the sand never leaves (as we have here) and the others say you never get all the acid out of the seams so it eventually causes the paint to rot out at the seams. I think somewhere I even heard that soda blasting is the best because you can wash it out but that seems like the water would f-up the raw metal..  

[MxRacer855]

So is it better to go with dipping the car then to media blast it? I know there are issues if either isn't done correctly causing panel damage or bent roofs but assuming you have it done correctly.  

I've wondered into this conversation in the past and it always seems like there are 2 camps on dipping vs media blasting. One says the sand never leaves (as we have here) and the others say you never get all the acid out of the seams so it eventually causes the paint to rot out at the seams. I think somewhere I even heard that soda blasting is the best because you can wash it out but that seems like the water would f-up the raw metal..  

I don't know much about acid dipping or soda blasting...
But when I called a local soda blaster in the area he told me a lot of people go that rout because they can blast over their trim and windows without doing any damage (for those who don't wish to disassemble their cars). What I've heard about that is that you have to 'neutralize" the soda when the job is finished. If it doesn't get completely neutralized, then the paint will start to compromise. I think you just have to pick your poison and deal with the consequences. 

Jeff

[Dino]

There's no perfect solution really.  Well there is but nobody wants to spend that kind of money.  Panel warping should no longer be an issue with the available blasting media.  The problem is getting the damn media out and not being able to reach everything, such as the insides of the rails.  Dipping takes care of all of this but it can cause some damage.  After dipping it should go through a neutralizer bath and it should not be painted until it's dry inside out.  Of course by that time you have flash rust.  The 3rd step in this process (the costly one) is dipping it in a cataphoresic bath.  The black stuff you see on new panels.  That coats it in and out like a new car.  A galvanizing bath is a stellar option but will leave you living on the streets most likely.  

For a decent car I would go with blasting, and once paint is on, everything that is not visible should be drenched in a rust prevention wax.  Once the insides of rails, doors and what not is coated with this stuff, not much can get to it.  It's a pain to cover every nook and cranny, but with a rotisserie it's doable, just time consuming.  The last bit of media stuck in the rails will also glue the blast media in place so sometimes it's a good idea to coat the inside of the rails before painting.  Whatever overspray you have on the outside can be removed with degreaser.

[bakerhillpins]

that I've heard about that is that you have to 'neutralize" the soda when the job is finished. If it doesn't get completely neutralized, then the paint will start to compromise. I think you just have to pick your poison and deal with the consequences. 

Jeff

Yea, that must have been the "wash" cycle I recall.

There's no perfect solution really.

For a decent car I would go with blasting, and once paint is on, everything that is not visible should be drenched in a rust prevention wax.  Once the insides of rails, doors and what not is coated with this stuff, not much can get to it.  It's a pain to cover every nook and cranny, but with a rotisserie it's doable, just time consuming.  The last bit of media stuck in the rails will also glue the blast media in place so sometimes it's a good idea to coat the inside of the rails before painting.  Whatever overspray you have on the outside can be removed with degreaser.

What?!? No perfect solution!   

So the rust preventive wax your talking about, are you referring to stuff like Fluid Film? I coated the underside and inside the frame rails on my new RAM last fall with that stuff.  Could you not just shoot paint inside the rails and then coat after with the wax? Wouldn't the blasting leave the inside of the rails all nasty or do they shoot inside there too?

[Dino]

You can't really blast inside the rails unless you cut them open.  I don't think many will blast inside the few holes in the rails as you will barely hit anything so yeah they stay cruddy on the inside.  And rails do look cruddy if you've ever opened one up after 50 years.   

Yes Fluid Film is one of them.  It's pretty much a mixture of oils and waxes.  It should dry to a consistency of candle wax, give or take, so it can be scrapped off but even then it leaves an oily residue behind which is completely hydrophobic.

For the same reason you can't blast the inside of the rails, you can't paint them either.  There's just no access to them which is why the wax is the best and pretty much only way to go, even if the car has been dipped and e-coated.

IF you were to be able to shoot paint in the rail, it would have to be done in such a way that it would adhere well because if the paint can flake off easily, then the wax has nothing to hold on to and will fall off as well.

These application guns have a long, flexible nozzle to get into every nook and cranny.  It would be nice to shoot a primer in there first, but I'd be cautious for the peeling reason.  It may be best to just shoot the wax in there and call it a day.  It's pretty expensive though as you have to soak every square inch of the insides until it runs out every hole in the bottom of the rails.  That requires quite a few gallons to do a car the size of a yacht!   

[sdweatherman]

Eastwood has a green colored rust encapsulator type paint that comes in a spray can and includes an 18 inch tube with an end that sprays in all directions. You stick the tube in various holes in the frame rails, push the nozzle down, and slowly draw the tube down the rail. Not a perfect solution and probably doesn't get 100% of the inside of the rail, but worked pretty good on my car. Scott.

[MxRacer855]

Sounds like a good idea!

I'm going to look it up on their site.

Thanks 

[charge69]

I'm really glad I had mine acid-dipped then phosphate coated when my restoration was first started. A lot more of the back end was gone than we thought was rusty. We let it dry for a couple of weeks then my painter had an older cheap paint gun that we filled with (secret stuff) and fashioned a semi-flexible 3ft. wand on it and sprayed literally every underside nook and cranny and inside the frame rails while it was on the rotisserie! We sprayed until the paint was literally running out the ends of the frame rails! No rust here after a couple of years and no rust on his Challenger's underside after it's restoration about 12 years ago!

The place I had mine dipped is no longer open for business and I really do not know what I would do now!  It wasn't cheap back then and we literally took my Charger to the dipper's place of business mounted on the rotisserie and all of it on a trailer! It was only about 15 miles from my friend's home and an easy trip back and forth.

[MxRacer855]

I'm really glad I had mine acid-dipped then phosphate coated when my restoration was first started. A lot more of the back end was gone than we thought was rusty. We let it dry for a couple of weeks then my painter had an older cheap paint gun that we filled with (secret stuff) and fashioned a semi-flexible 3ft. wand on it and sprayed literally every underside nook and cranny and inside the frame rails while it was on the rotisserie! We sprayed until the paint was literally running out the ends of the frame rails! No rust here after a couple of years and no rust on his Challenger's underside after it's restoration about 12 years ago!

The place I had mine dipped is no longer open for business and I really do not know what I would do now!  It wasn't cheap back then and we literally took my Charger to the dipper's place of business mounted on the rotisserie and all of it on a trailer! It was only about 15 miles from my friend's home and an easy trip back and forth.

Sounds like a great route to go if the option is available! 

[Chatt69chgr]

My car was sand blasted and I agree that you will never get all of the sand out.  In any case, you do the best you can with pressurized air and vaccuum techniques.  At this point I used the Eastwood spray material for inside the frame rails.  It's available in black or amber.  I got the amber.  It's in a spray can and does come with a little stick on nozzle extension.  I used that as best I could but it does fly off if you are not careful.  The material is a liquid which is brown in color.  You can wipe it off painted surfaces easily with a rag.  It dries in 2-4 days and leaves a wax behind.  It was just what I was looking for to rust proof the inside the frame rails.  Better than paint.  I also used it on the inaccessible area between the inside of the rear quarters and the trunk extensions.  Leaving the rear quarter panel plug out under the car I just reached inside the trunk and sprayed the stuff along the top edge of the trunk extensions and let it run down.  I sprayed it liberally until it ran out of the plug hole under the car.  Then put a rag on the floor to catch drips.  Now, a few days later, you can reach up inside the rear quarter through the plug hole as well as into the openings in the frame rails and you feel a hard but slightly waxy surface.  I believe that this material will assist in the future from any additional rust forming in these areas.

[Dino]

My car was sand blasted and I agree that you will never get all of the sand out.  In any case, you do the best you can with pressurized air and vaccuum techniques.  At this point I used the Eastwood spray material for inside the frame rails.  It's available in black or amber.  I got the amber.  It's in a spray can and does come with a little stick on nozzle extension.  I used that as best I could but it does fly off if you are not careful.  The material is a liquid which is brown in color.  You can wipe it off painted surfaces easily with a rag.  It dries in 2-4 days and leaves a wax behind.  It was just what I was looking for to rust proof the inside the frame rails.  Better than paint.  I also used it on the inaccessible area between the inside of the rear quarters and the trunk extensions.  Leaving the rear quarter panel plug out under the car I just reached inside the trunk and sprayed the stuff along the top edge of the trunk extensions and let it run down.  I sprayed it liberally until it ran out of the plug hole under the car.  Then put a rag on the floor to catch drips.  Now, a few days later, you can reach up inside the rear quarter through the plug hole as well as into the openings in the frame rails and you feel a hard but slightly waxy surface.  I believe that this material will assist in the future from any additional rust forming in these areas.

You got the good stuff that preserves cars, all cars should have it.  You did it correctly as well, spray until it runs out of every crevice.   

[six-tee-nine]

I'm going to do a similar threatment also when I am done painting.

BTW painting the inside of the frame rails seems a good idea, but I Always wondered How far the paint burns away then you but weld the new floor panel to those rails?

[fy469rtse]

Jeff , ?
Where's your thread pal, on your resto
I always after completing the paint, fill all the crevices with fish oil metal treatment , that's what it's called down here
Rather something that's anti rust , the waiting for the first bath or drive in the rain to wash down where that residue sand  blast is sitting ready to absorb the water

[MxRacer855]

It's still there... somewhere Geoff!

I just haven't posted much after the paint pics.

Been busy working on it and racing dirtbikes!

I'll post some stuff later tonight!


Jeff