I don't think it's supposed to do this...

[Dino]

Bad pump?  I'll have to check it out.  Maybe I should get a book on 727's...

My cat isn't doing well so I'm at Michigan State University with him.  Trans will have to wait a bit.

[Dino]

I just positioned the car in the garage so I can jack it up and get it on stands.  I have tall stands so it shouldn't be a problem getting it up high enough to drop the tranx.  I'll do the checks behind the cover plate first of course.  It's still raining so it was a little hard finding leaks with powder, but I did find one coming from the dipstick area.  The big puddle however is coming from behind the cover plate, that much was obvious.

I would like to replace as much of the seals as possible after the damage is fixed, whatever it maybe.  Is this a good kit or do you guys recommend something else? 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-727-TF8-4x4-Transmission-Gasket-and-seal-Kit-/260714540838?hash=item3cb3cc2f26&vxp=mtr? 

Does the year of the trans matter or are they all the same?  I'm not sure what year mine is.

[tan top]

Flex plate cracked?--Flex plate mounting tab broken off?

cracked flex plate was my first thought too 

this might sound crazy
see if you can set the camera up under the car , in the same location , then go & rev the motor a little bit , & switch it off , see if you can hear it ? be no exhaust & other noises then , 

[Dino]

Yeah that might work.  I'll go give it a shot.

[Dino]

It's technically a video, but you can't see anything.  I tried to extract the audio but it kept crashing so I uploaded it to youtube as is.  The device was placed under the trans pan.  The exhaust is still loud but you can hear the "ringing" sound.  Once you hear me shut off the engine, kill the video.  I pulled the cardboard with my tablet on it from under the car and the noise is a bit annoying.  

https://youtu.be/juitOQBl_Zk

[71 SE3834V]

I wouldn't buy anything until you know what needs to be done. I think you're gonna get some answers once you pull the cover for an inspection.
I had a flex plate crack on a chebbie 350 4x4 but for the life of me I can't remember what the symptoms were. Wouldn't be much help anyway as I still can't hear your symptoms. My laptop shut down shortly after turning it on. I think it's overheating.

[Dino]

I'm not buying anything yet, but I like to plan ahead and see what's available.  I love this trans so I hope it can be fixed.  I used to think it shifted a bit harsh but it was my fault, I didn't set it up right.  Now it's super smooth, just as I want it.  If the trans can be fixed I'd like to do just that and make sure it doesn't leak anymore.  At least the pan doesn't leak with this new gasket!

[Dino]

I'm not buying anything yet, but I like to plan ahead and see what's available.  I love this trans so I hope it can be fixed.  I used to think it shifted a bit harsh but it was my fault, I didn't set it up right.  Now it's super smooth, just as I want it.  If the trans can be fixed I'd like to do just that and make sure it doesn't leak anymore.  At least the pan doesn't leak with this new gasket!

[tan top]

It's technically a video, but you can't see anything.  I tried to extract the audio but it kept crashing so I uploaded it to youtube as is.  The device was placed under the trans pan.  The exhaust is still loud but you can hear the "ringing" sound.  Once you hear me shut off the engine, kill the video.  I pulled the cardboard with my tablet on it from under the car and the noise is a bit annoying.  

https://youtu.be/juitOQBl_Zk

,  oh  , sorry  it did not work as well as I thought it was going to ,  

 
 

[tan top]

sounded like a clunk to me , when the motor was shut off,   be interesting to see whats behind the dust cover ,  maybe rotate the  motor  with a breaker bar on the  harmonic ballencer nut ,  inspect flex plate & torque converter bolts ,

[birdsandbees]

When do we start taking bets?  

I'm laying odds on a converter bolt(s) rapping the inspection cover, and it (they) being loose could certainly make the front seal start leaking.

All I can say for certain, you keep running it to take audio files or driving it and you won't need to worry about fixing what may AT THIS POINT be an easy fix. A couple small bolts and 5 minutes of your time and you'd have the answer already.

[flyinlow]

Check the torque converter bolts, trans to engine bolts, loose starter or for a crack in the  flex plate.

A sudden trans fluid leak from the bellhousing is not a good sign.

[Dino]

Yeah I didn't feel all that comfortable starting it up again, hence why it's a short clip.  I have more pressing matters going on right now but I finally got the car on stands.  I can barely reach the cover plate without jacking it up.

I removed the cover plate and there's a gash on the inside so likely a loose bolt.  I'll upload some pics later.  I don't know if I have the tools to turn over the engine by hand and I don't have a remote starter.  But I have an impulse switch from the power trunk lock, shouldn't that work when I hook it up to the starter solenoid?  If not I'll get a remote starter tomorrow.

Oh and I drained the pan, love that drain bolt.  The fluid is bright red, no metal shavings or anything.  I figured it was time for some good news.   

[Dino]

Pics of the gash in the cover plate and what I can see without spinning the engine.  Notice the shiny teeth on the passenger side.

[Dino]

2 more

I'll get some more up when I can turn the engine, but that's not going to be today.

[birdsandbees]

Based on the "gash" location, there's a converter to flex plate bolt sticking out.

As for the shiny teeth, that's just caused by a common starter engaging spot on the flywheel.

Pending your strength, you may very well be able to grab the lower belt flywheel and turn the engine a 1/4 turn at a time. I could when I was a teen..

[Dino]

Great info, thanks birdsandbees!   

I never even thought of turning it by hand.  I'll be sure to eat my wheaties.   

[ws23rt]

You could put a cresent wrench on one of the flex plate bolt blocks to turn the convertor over.

[birdsandbees]

I also don't see any evidence of a stream of tranny fluid flowing around in there.

[Dino]

You could put a cresent wrench on one of the flex plate bolt blocks to turn the convertor over.

I'll give that a try, thanks.

I also don't see any evidence of a stream of tranny fluid flowing around in there.

Me neither.  It was not what I expected, yet I saw the fluid come out from under the cover before I drained it.

Because of the new leak and the old leak coming from up top, I think dropping the trans and replacing all the seals would not be a bad idea.  The starter is absolutely soaked and it's the original.  Maybe it's time for a mini starter?  If I can swap it with the headers on that is.

[Chargerguy74]

This probably goes without saying, but if you're turning it over by hand pulling the plugs will make it much easier.

[Dino]

This probably goes without saying, but if you're turning it over by hand pulling the plugs will make it much easier.

I know Jeff is laughing now, we just did a compression test on my car and some of the plugs were fun to get at with headers.   

Luckily the car is a few feet off the ground now and they're pretty easy to get at from below.  I'll get them out in the morning, spin the engine and get some more pictures.

That reminds me, I need to start a thread on the compression.

[71 SE3834V]

This probably goes without saying, but if you're turning it over by hand pulling the plugs will make it much easier.

This probably goes without saying, but if you're turning it over by hand pulling the plugs will make it much easier.

I know Jeff is laughing now, we just did a compression test on my car and some of the plugs were fun to get at with headers.  

Luckily the car is a few feet off the ground now and they're pretty easy to get at from below.  I'll get them out in the morning, spin the engine and get some more pictures.

That reminds me, I need to start a thread on the compression.

Ya know I was gonna joke about that and tell you to don't call me to help until you get the plugs out!  
Seriously you should be able to turn it over with a wrench on the bolts and some muscle. I can't remember, could we not get the breaker bar on the crank bolt when it was on the ground? We didn't jack it up that one time we tried right? Do yourself a favor and get a remote start or make one. Just need a button switch, wire and clips.

The good news is I got notice that I'm not needed for jury duty so I'm free all weekend (and next week) at least until I get my trailer back then I gotta pick a couple of lawn tractors up for repair.

Oh, and it's looking like a loose bolt! Tighten that MoFo up and run it to see if it leaks! Don't forget to check what you can see of the flexplate.

[Dino]

I made a starter switch out of my power trunk lock switch and some alligator clips.  I turned it over so I could check all the bolts and none are sticking out BUT all of them were loose.  One of them took almost 3/4 turn to tighten and this is just tightened with an open wrench until the whole unit moves.  I don't know what the torque specs are for these bolts but I'm sure it's in the manual somewhere.
So if none of the bolts are sticking out does this mean the entire converter/flex plate unit has shifted forward?  I guess it would explain the massive leak but what could cause this?

Time to drop the trans?

I didn't really check the flexplate for damage so I'll go do this now.  I was too focused on the bolts.

[Dino]

I checked everything I could and from my vantage point there is no apparent damage to the flex plate.  None of the tabs have broken off, I put some pressure on them with a small crow bar and they are firmly attached.

At this point there's also nothing that would be hitting the inspection plate so I can only assume that when the engine is running, the converter shifts forward.  There are some faint markings on one of the bolts but they are likely grade 8 and that soft cover plate wouldn't take much to get marred like that.

So if it's not cause by an individual bolt and the converter shifts forward as a whole, what am I looking at?  Bad pump?  Some retainer that's no longer retaining?

Any websites you guys know of that have trans removal instructions with pictures?  Especially how to support the engine itself.  I have some tie down straps and could lay a 2x4 on the inner fenders to support it.