I don't think it's supposed to do this...

[Dino]

There's a pretty bad sound coming from what I believe to be transmission.

The trans has always leaked a bit but nothing more than a drop or two.  Yesterday I was at Jeff's and not long after parking I noticed a good 4" diameter puddle under the bellhousing.  The pan was also coated with trans fluid.  That was a first.

I was on my way back home, doing 70-75 on the freeway, when about 25 minutes into the trip the noise started.  At first I thought something had worked its way loose, it almost sounded like the heaterbox was ready to drop, not a slight noise, a really loud noise. I was close to my exit so I moved into the right lane and slowed down.  The noise reacted to the throttle position.  I gave it more gas and at 3/4 throttle or so, the noise pretty much went way.  But as soon as I let off the gas a bit it came back.  I could hear the ratteling while waiting for the light to turn at the off ramp.  I pulled into a parking lot, thinking maybe the inspection cover on the bellhousing was loose but it wasn't.  I careefully drove it home on the back roads, a good 10 minute drive, and besides the noise the car seemed fine.  It shifted alright and engine temp and pressure did not change.

I took 2 short videos so you can hear it. Because of the sudden leak and where the sound seems to be coming from, my guess is the treans has a bit of an issue.

I can get more videos if you want me to rev it up or something, but it's probably not a good idea to drive it anymore.  

Any clues as to what may be the problem here?

https://youtu.be/0QyalWAlQps0QyalWAlQps

https://youtu.be/Mz7nKwK8gQA

[John_Kunkel]

"This video is private".

[Dino]

"This video is private".

Ack!  Let me see if I can fix that.

edit:  It should work now, I hope.

[303 Mopar]

Exhaust leak at the flange?   

[70 sublime]

Is it the jungle rattel sound ?

Torque converter falling apart ?

[Dino]

Torque converter was my thought as well.  As if it's hitting something.  Is that even possible?  The trans fluid seems to be coming from the bellhousing but it's hard to tell when the underside is wet.  I cleaned it all up so tomorrow I'll remove the cover plate and see what I see.  I don't know much about these transmissions so I have some homework to do.

Definitely not an exhaust issue, had one of those when I bought the car.  This is loud and metal on metal.  The loud exhaust just makes it harder to isolate.  I'll try to get a better sound clip tomorrow.  I'll have to take it for a spin and record from the cabin.

[1974dodgecharger]

valve gasket leak?  My valve gaskets leak so it drops down to my bell housing, to starter, to ground....

[Dino]

valve gasket leak?  My valve gaskets leak so it drops down to my bell housing, to starter, to ground....

They have done that in the past but for now they seem to seal alright.  The puddle was bright red trans fluid though, as was the stuff slathered on the underside of the car.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Cracked flywheel.

[Back N Black]

Torque converter bolts loose.

[ws23rt]

Flex plate cracked?--Flex plate mounting tab broken off?

[scratchinfotraction]

be sure to top the fluid back off before test ride.

sounds to me the flexplate or TC bolts maybe the issue.

when the 4 bolts are loose it will rock back and forth while at idle/speed.

you think it would wedge/drive against the side of hole but it does not. sounds like a bolt tapping the dustcover.

a cracked flex plate will let the tc move around enough to take the seal out and the pump bushing.

also could have cracked the TC snout at the drive lugs for the leak/noise.

brake clean it down.blow dry it. toss baby powder around the spots that would leak to slow the leak and show where it is wicking from or windage pushing it back onto pan.

good luck.

[Dino]

Would it be safe to say that the trans has to come out regardless of what is causing the noise?  I don't know anything about these things, but at the least I can drop the trans and clean it all up.  I'm actually looking forward to that part as I'd like to take care of the small leak that seems to be coming from up top once and for all.

Edit, just saw your post scratchin'.  I checked the fluid level last night and it's still alright, I was worried I ran the poor thing dry.  I'll do a short run, record it and post back.  Then I'll put it on stands and remove the cover plate

[Dino]

It's raining cats and dogs here and it's hot as hell so I won't be putting it on stands today. I'll wait until tomorrow when it cools a bit.

I took it out for a short drive down the street and recorded it but the quality isn't there so I'm not going to post it. The sqeaking of the steering wheel turning is much more audible than the actual trans.  

The noise stays the same but is more pronounced in neutral than drive or park and it's quietest in reverse.  That's all while parked, not driving.  It really does sound like metal scraping to metal so it sure could be bolts that backed out.

I'll get that trans dropped and take it from there.  Would there be any indication that the engine would have to be pulled?  Because if so, I need the a/c system evacuated before I do anything else.  And if it needs to be pulled then I'm going all the way and will replace the cam, repaint the engine and redo the entire engine bay.  That'll be a good time to do the disc brake conversion as well because that distribution block is really hard to reach right now!

Edit: I forgot to mention that I checked the trans fluid level again after this short run and it's exactly half way between full and "add a  pint" so it has lost quite a bit.

[Troy]

You can check the bolts and flex plate just by removing the inspection cover. I'm no expert but I don't think that would cause a leak - at least not just by being loose (unless they all are). Prolonged running like that could cause a leak just from the vibration and things moving around.

Troy

[Dino]

I'm wondering if it did work its way loose over time making the mess underneath.  I have been driving it pretty much every day for the past 10 weeks or so.  I'll get under it tomorrow and see what I can find.

I'm trying to learn more about the 727 and what to look for, but don't have any books or anything.  Is there a one stop site for info on these and how they work?

[green69rt]

Just a SWAG because sound travels so easily in metal it's sometimes hard telling where it's coming from.  Sounds like when the engine is under load you don't get it.  To me that says that the engine is torquing over a little and banging on something.  Fan shroud??  Exhaust coming in contact with something??

[Dino]

I was thinking the same thing, especially right after it happened.  I've had the rear pipe hit the inner rocker before and man does that get loud! 

I checked the fan and the exhaust while it was idling and I can't see anything wrong with it.  When I was under the car yesterday the sound seemed to be coming from the bellhousing, but as you say it's really hard to pinpoint.  Because of the change in sound when I shift through the gears, I think it's gotta be something trans related though.

In any case, as long as it's up in the air, I'll be checking everything front to back and side to side!  There's always something getting loose on these things.   

[scratchinfotraction]

remove the inspection cover and check to see if you can move the TC by hand.

turn crank by hand and check each bolt. I have had 1 bolt back out till it was hitting the block, almost ripped it out of the lug/threds.

when at each bolt, look at the flex plate as much as you can see each time you roll the crank, they sometimes crack/break out on the arms and sometimes around the crank bolts where you don't see it..unless R&R of the trans/TC

make sure starter is bolt up tight, cant hurt to check it.

in the bellhousing is 1 pump/TC seal then you have 2 seals to check for leaks at the shift lever, o-ring on dip tube, pan gasket, 2 seals on speedo plug, low/revs lever pivot pin o-ring at back of case.

if you brake clean it good, use baby powder around these spots on the outside of trans, let sit over night and check, then test drive it will help find a leak and show if leak is traveling making it look like another spot that is not leaking.

when you replace the pan gasket it is good to upgrade to the newer style gasket from the dealer. and if you need to use RTV sealer on it, the MOPAR ATF/RTV from the dealer is best for no leaks.

[Dino]

Hey scratchin thanks for the tips, I'll be sure to do those things.  It should be pretty dry tomorrow so I'll do the powder thing first.  I cleaned the outside of the trans as best I could in preparation for it.

I installed a new pan with drain bolt last year and used the gasket so many recommended, the ones wih the silicone or rubber lines.   I forget what they are.  I didn't use rtv and it hasn't leaked since.  I also replaced the o rings for the speedometer pinion gear but the others are untouched.  When the trans comes out I plan on replacing all of them. 

After the leak check I'll put it up on stands as high as I can and will remove the cover plate to check those things.  I'll report back before I attempt to drop the trans...which I've never done but how hard can it be right?   

[71 SE3834V]

...which I've never done but how hard can it be right?  

Well I know I did all the prep work but you did help me drop mine at least.

I'm a little late to the ball game and my computer doesn't have any sound anymore but it seems like everyone is honing in on the TQ, bolts or flex plate. If you put all the info together I would lean towards the TQ bolts came loose, the TQ moved back and forth and wore out the front pump seal.
Pull the cover and see what you see. If the bolts are loose I would check for other damage, tighten them up and go for a test run to see if it leaks.
Dropping a trans is pretty basic but if you have to drop it give me a call. If you remember it's a whole lot easier w/extra hands. Other than working on my own ride I don't have much going on....except jury duty Friday.   At least it's the local court so chances are I won't be tied up w/that too long.
Good luck Dirk.

[Dino]

Jury duty!   

Plead insanity, just start yelling at the defendant that he looks guilty.  You'll be home in time for lunch.   

I'll play with the trans tomorrow.  If I can't figure it out I'll take pics and/or video.   

Do you get sound out of the pc with headphones?

[71 SE3834V]

Dunno. Doubt it. I don't even have a pair of headphones around here to try. It's been out a long time and it's old & outdated (Sounds like someone I know, me!), 2007 model and not worth fixing. Somebody once told me the sound card might be out. If I knew what to look for I have a matching pc in the closet that I just stole the power unit and dvd drive outta last winter to get this one going again.
I plugged in my laptop and will see if it'll fire up tomorrow (it has it's issues also) and give a listen.

[scratchinfotraction]

I use 2 5/16" brass comp coupling to cut the line by the pan rail, then use rubber hose on the 4 ends to keep the drips down.

a 3-4 foot 3/8" drive  extension with a swivel joint makes the bell housing bolt much easier to remove when reaching from the tail shaft area.

I also use a spot of paint to mark the flex plate & tc for it going back together. only bolts up one way but will let you get a couple bolt started to find it off.

with a drain pan plug that makes it less messy so drain first.

undo flex plate bolts first, turning engine bumping starter, then R&R starter/oil filter (SB engine)

make sure to lower tail shaft with xmember removed then block up engine so it does not hang on front mounts and make room for bellhousing bolts.

make sure the TC gets fully seated into the pump lugs before any bell bolts are torqued.  with the bell bolted up you should then have to pull the TC forward a little to start the bolts. it should move/turn easy with no binding.

gravity will help remove it so stay out from under it and fight you going back in with it. another set of hands is best.

30 yrs ago I would not even need a jack, at 52 I watch it done now. have fun.

[68 RT]

Pump is going bad, this will also cause front seal to fail.