Wiring troubleshoot, could use suggestions

[Lord Warlock]

Charger is together, and trying to start it, not getting fire, think i'll need to verify connectivity of the new harness section.  (fits on middle row of bulkhead)

I replaced the engine harness from the bulkhead connector to the horns, the one that connects to the voltage regulator, ballast, coil, distributor, alternator, washer tank, and horns.  While it looks routed correctly and I thought it was hooked up correctly, when I try to start the car, the engine cranks over, but will not issue any fire to kick the engine over.  I'm using starter fluid or gas directly into the carb for now, so it isn't gas that's the problem, its definitely electrical.

Today, while messing with it a little, I verified that the headlights and tail lights all work correctly, parking lights or turn signals work fine, flash fine.  I'm also getting power on the harness that goes to starter and battery and on to headlight area.  The harness I replaced however is not getting power as far as I can tell.  The connectors to the Ballast Resistor were both warm or hot while cranking the car, which tells me it is getting electricity to the ballast, but it may not be connected properly, since I don't remember the ballast getting hot while cranking.  However, I can't tell if the distributor or coil is getting power, and when I attempt to honk the horn I'm getting no response, I'm currently connected to the horn relay, but could bypass the relay and go direct to a horn, they were working before I took them off, maybe i'll test them with a jump starter tomorrow.  

Electricals under the dash to fuse box look ok, they are all old, and brittle, but it hasn't been hacked up and it still works so at least I don't have to worry about that part of electrical yet.  Really just think something on the replacement harness I put on isn't working.  If I have to, I can put the original harness back on as a backup, but would prefer the new harness, looked great, had all the connectors which made sense where to connect just based on location of the connectors.

Anyone got a rundown of which colors of wire this harness is supposed to have, and what each attaches to?  That would help.  Otherwise suggestions on how to use a multi-meter to check each wire for resistance or flow of electricity would help.  I have not used one before, so explain it as you would the 12 year old looking over your shoulder.  I hate electrical gremlins.  

distributor turns freely, is not completely bolted down but is tight enough to stay in position, but can be moved to advance timing, as far as I can tell it is hooked up correctly I've checked each wire several times to make sure they are in the right order according to the chiltons manual, could use a new cap but the existing one is still decent shape.  Coil has 3 wires, distributor wire hooked to + terminal, tach wire and harness lead to - wire, The Alternator only has one connector which I trust, the one with the bolt that tightens down, there was a green wire that connects to one of the spades on the brushes, but when it was running before with the old harness, it had a larger spade connector on the harness, I swapped a brush from a 70 alternator to my 69 model so I could connect to the harness with a smaller spade connection, that may not have been a good idea.  May have to get a new one, but the car should start even if the alternator isn't hooked up.

Is there an inline fuse on the harness anywhere? didn't check for one but might tomorrow when I spend a few hours trying to figure this harness thing out.  

[Lord Warlock]

The wires to the ballast, one has one wire the other has two, which side should each plug into? I'll be taking the ballast and voltage regulator off tomorrow to test them, or to grind the hole so it grounds to firewall better.  Same with engine ground strap...which hasn't been removed since it was running last.

[birdsandbees]

Generally the harness wire length allows for the dual wire to go on the drivers side and single on the passenger side, but it doesn't matter on a single resistor ballast.

[Lord Warlock]

that's how I had it when the terminals got hot, so guess it is hooked up correctly, plan on checking grounds to regulator and ballast tomorrow afternoon.  Need to verify power is getting where it is supposed to.

[birdsandbees]

No ground on a ballast resistor (and it will get warm as resistance = heat), but definitely need a good ground on the regulator case. (edit to add, was thinking newer than the IGN / Field regulator, not even sure the case needs grounding on it)

[Mopar Nut]

Here's a wiring diagram.

[BLK 68 R/T]

Charger is together, and trying to start it, not getting fire, think i'll need to verify connectivity of the new harness section.  (fits on middle row of bulkhead)

I replaced the engine harness from the bulkhead connector to the horns, the one that connects to the voltage regulator, ballast, coil, distributor, alternator, washer tank, and horns.  While it looks routed correctly and I thought it was hooked up correctly, when I try to start the car, the engine cranks over, but will not issue any fire to kick the engine over.  I'm using starter fluid or gas directly into the carb for now, so it isn't gas that's the problem, its definitely electrical.

Today, while messing with it a little, I verified that the headlights and tail lights all work correctly, parking lights or turn signals work fine, flash fine.  I'm also getting power on the harness that goes to starter and battery and on to headlight area.  The harness I replaced however is not getting power as far as I can tell.  The connectors to the Ballast Resistor were both warm or hot while cranking the car, which tells me it is getting electricity to the ballast, but it may not be connected properly, since I don't remember the ballast getting hot while cranking.  However, I can't tell if the distributor or coil is getting power, and when I attempt to honk the horn I'm getting no response, I'm currently connected to the horn relay, but could bypass the relay and go direct to a horn, they were working before I took them off, maybe i'll test them with a jump starter tomorrow.  

Electricals under the dash to fuse box look ok, they are all old, and brittle, but it hasn't been hacked up and it still works so at least I don't have to worry about that part of electrical yet.  Really just think something on the replacement harness I put on isn't working.  If I have to, I can put the original harness back on as a backup, but would prefer the new harness, looked great, had all the connectors which made sense where to connect just based on location of the connectors.

Anyone got a rundown of which colors of wire this harness is supposed to have, and what each attaches to?  That would help.  Otherwise suggestions on how to use a multi-meter to check each wire for resistance or flow of electricity would help.  I have not used one before, so explain it as you would the 12 year old looking over your shoulder.  I hate electrical gremlins.  

distributor turns freely, is not completely bolted down but is tight enough to stay in position, but can be moved to advance timing, as far as I can tell it is hooked up correctly I've checked each wire several times to make sure they are in the right order according to the chiltons manual, could use a new cap but the existing one is still decent shape.  Coil has 3 wires, distributor wire hooked to + terminal, tach wire and harness lead to - wire, The Alternator only has one connector which I trust, the one with the bolt that tightens down, there was a green wire that connects to one of the spades on the brushes, but when it was running before with the old harness, it had a larger spade connector on the harness, I swapped a brush from a 70 alternator to my 69 model so I could connect to the harness with a smaller spade connection, that may not have been a good idea.  May have to get a new one, but the car should start even if the alternator isn't hooked up.

Is there an inline fuse on the harness anywhere? didn't check for one but might tomorrow when I spend a few hours trying to figure this harness thing out.  

Pretty sure the distributor wire is supposed to be connected to the negative side of the coil, not the positive side. Blue wire from the harness connects to the coil +, tach lead and dist. lead connect to the coil -.

[birdsandbees]

Good eye.. I read that three times and only hesitated to see he had the tach wire correct. Hope the tach didn't mind the + power it got.

[BLK 68 R/T]

Yes, definitely hope the tach is not damaged. I was thinking the wiring was supposed to be that way and then low and behold moparnut posted a wiring diagram that confirmed my hunch.  to moparnut for the diagram....saved me from going to my shop to get a manual to look 

[Lord Warlock]

I searched the distributor sections on this site to connect the distributor, Just looked because I doubted my own memory.  Tach and distributor are on - terminal of distr.  The blue wire on harness is on positive.  There is a loose connection to the alternator, the nut isn't tightened down, moving the wires would sometimes cause a spark.  This tells me we have power from bulkhead to alternator, but won't know about washer or horns till tomorrow.  I also had added a ground or negative wire from coil to carburetor electric choke.

If the tach was hooked up incorrectly, it probably didn't hurt it much, it was already "bouncing" and not holding position steady, and would sweep over 1000rpm in either direction, I plan on eventually having the gauge cluster redone, but it will be after I get the car running first.  The tach never bothered me much being inaccurate, after a couple weeks of driving it, I went by ear instead.  Keep in mind, I haven't driven this car in over 20 years so recollections can be fuzzy.  

I appreciate the wiring diagram.  I can follow it ok so it should help a lot.  

Something in my head is telling me to check the distributor wire, not on the coil connection but closer to where the wire connects to the distributor, will have to do it tomorrow too.  lol have to run out again to the garage and unhook the charger on the battery. 

[cdr]

I searched the distributor sections on this site to connect the distributor, Just looked because I doubted my own memory.  Tach and distributor are on - terminal of distr.  The blue wire on harness is on positive.  There is a loose connection to the alternator, the nut isn't tightened down, moving the wires would sometimes cause a spark.  This tells me we have power from bulkhead to alternator, but won't know about washer or horns till tomorrow.  I also had added a ground or negative wire from coil to carburetor electric choke.

If the tach was hooked up incorrectly, it probably didn't hurt it much, it was already "bouncing" and not holding position steady, and would sweep over 1000rpm in either direction, I plan on eventually having the gauge cluster redone, but it will be after I get the car running first.  The tach never bothered me much being inaccurate, after a couple weeks of driving it, I went by ear instead.  Keep in mind, I haven't driven this car in over 20 years so recollections can be fuzzy.  

I appreciate the wiring diagram.  I can follow it ok so it should help a lot.  

Something in my head is telling me to check the distributor wire, not on the coil connection but closer to where the wire connects to the distributor, will have to do it tomorrow too.  lol have to run out again to the garage and unhook the charger on the battery.  

quote  I also had added a ground or negative wire from coil to carburetor electric choke

- coil to the choke ? that will not work. the car will not run

[Lord Warlock]

I can remove the choke wires, but it has an electric choke on the edelbrock performer, still have to figure out how to wire it and from where.  I'll remove the wire to choke then, just to make sure. 

[BLK 68 R/T]

Electric choke wire should go to a 12v switched source.

[Pete in NH]

Hi,

Post a picture of your multi-meter and I can tell you how to set it up to make some measurements. And yes, disconnect that choke wire for now. By the way is this a points ignition system or are you using something else?

The only fuse that is sort of in the wiring harness is the fusible link between the battery stud on the starter relay and one of the bulk head connector pins. If that link is open or not there a lot of things will not work including the ignition.

[Lord Warlock]

don't have a multi-meter yet, never needed one before, have a very old volt meter but doubt it is even functional so I would probably get another one if I needed to.  The Charger is the only car I'd spend $ for a tool I'd use once every 5 years or less.  But its time to get it going again, and won't back down now.

Disconnected the choke wires for now, rain postponed more work for now, but will get back on it tomorrow. (its garaged but you'd get wet standing in front near the door, wasn't the rain that bothered me but the lightning. 

[BLK 68 R/T]

I would double check the firewall connection as well. Maybe when you plugged in the new harness it pushed some of the dash side terminals out of the connecter.

[b5blue]

Old Chargers need a multi meter, 12.00 at Walmart. I fed my electric choke with a relay that tapped into Alt. output wire, turned on by key on run wire. I'd take a close look at all new harness connectors wire connections. My new harness had one connection badly crimped, the blue IGN. feed wire. When given the "tug test" it slid right apart. That would have been big trouble had I assumed new means good.

[Lord Warlock]

Well, hooked up the battery, or started to, had disconnected the choke, removed the wire entirely but left the rest connected and while hooking up the battery heard a crackle to my right, (hadn't tightened down the positive cable, just twisted it on) saw sparks on the bolt where the fuseable link connects to the harness, and before I could disconnect the battery got a puff of smoke from the bulkhead connector where the fuseable link (blue wire) attaches.  After disconnecting the battery again, see that the fusable link wire was burnt out/in half.  It must be grounding somewhere, I hope its just the link and not the entire harness, have to disconnect it and take a look.

Can the link be rewired to the harness without replacing the entire engine harness?

[nascarxx29]

Fix the popped link and get a 12 volt testlight in line on positive cable.and look for a dead short to ground.possibly amp gauge etc alternator

[nascarxx29]

With testlight hooked between+ battery and positive  battery cable you can find whats pulling on it.doors closed all  acessories tuned off.remove one fuse at a time till testlight goes out,to source the short to what circuit.if not there check battery voltage carrying wires and devices.its ok to have a dim testlight like a clock or something .but full on bright you got a  short somewhere

[Lord Warlock]

to simplify, nothing in the interior is turned on, ignition wasn't even turned on.  I have had issues charging the battery while in the car though, which was probably due to a loose connection on the alternator. I fixed that when removing the other wire, and was a bit surprised to see the link wire sparking.

How do you change the link wire?  there is a label on the wire saying fusable link, and is or was a new wire as part of the new harness I put in, when It was hooked up wrong with the choke hooked to the alternator the car would turn over, removed that wire and it wouldn't turn over.  The link wire is now missing the insulation on part of the wire, and the wire is burnt in half, doesn't look like a fuse, looks like a short wire, but may look different with the harness disconnected, put that off till tomorrow when light is better.

A question, the green wire that comes out of the harness near the alternator, is this a connector to a field connector on the alternator, or is it the power wire for the AC?  The old harness only had one connection to the alternator, and it was a ring connector that attached to the post in the rear bottom of the alternator.  There was no brush connector that I can find on the alternator.  (this alt has been on the car since the 70s when it was driven last)

[nascarxx29]

For 69 alt connections green wire is the alt field and      http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=112014.0
heavy red to alt

[BLK 68 R/T]

Yes, the fusible link is easily changed. Just unplug the main harness connector and use a small flat tip screwdriver to push on one side of the terminal, it is a semi split connector, if you pull out the foam seal you should be able to see which side to push on to release the fusible link from the bulkhead connector.


Unless your charging system is setup for a single wire connection, there should be at least one field connection to the alternator. the green wire you mentioned would be the one. 70 up have 2 field connections 69 and back have 1.

[Lord Warlock]

got the bulkhead connector off and figured out that the bolt holding the link ring on was loose and it was likely the reason why it shorted out.  At least the harness doesn't look damaged, just the fusable link was ruined.  I'll try to get it out of the bulkhead connector plug so I can replace it. 

I had tried to add a  field connector from a 70 alternator that had a connector that fit the new harness, I'm wondering if it was wrong to put it in now, think I may just order a replacement alternator online. 

[nascarxx29]

Take alt to autoparts store for free evaluation

[Lord Warlock]

I replaced the old fusible link wire,  today when I was trying to verify connections I noticed the thinner red wire from the positive terminal of the battery is unhooked, on the end of the wire is a O connector and looks like it should hook up to the same place the link wire hooks to, but i'm not sure, can anyone provide guidance so I don't hook something up backwards?  The wire diagram posted earlier didn't help much. 

Thanks,
Lord Warlock

[BLK 68 R/T]

IIRC there are 2 wires from the battery that hook onto the starter relay. One has a full o ring terminal on the end, that one hooks to the main starter relay stud, same place as the fusible link. The other is a u shaped terminal that is connected with the small screw and metal cover.

[Mopar Nut]

 

[Lord Warlock]

Excellent,  now, where is originally routed, over top of vacuum tank, or below it?  I'm guessing over top from looks of picture, does it run along the fender? guess its time to go look at it again, makes sense since I had that connector off. 

[Lord Warlock]

picture helped a lot, took a closer look at the red wire and it had shorted or burnt through in a couple spots, so I've removed it and will replace it instead of putting the original back in place.  I won't put bad wires back on.

[Lord Warlock]

went to autozone and picked up a kit to make battery wires, allowed me to route it away from the exhaust and tucked around the vacuum tank for the brakes, and all the way to the battery.  Doesn't look original but its the right color and length, so It should work.  We'll see when I hook up the battery. 

[b5blue]

Did you get a meter yet? I've a free one from a Harbor Freight coupon deal I can send if you PM your address?  (Actually have 3 meters now!  )

[Lord Warlock]

battery cable is ok, but when hooked up battery it shorted out the fusible link again.  Had the harness hooked up to horns and horn relay, and water temp connector.  I'm now pulling off the engine harness and going to re-tape the original harness as well as fix a couple of the bad wires that were heat cooked or spliced previously and see if I can use the old harness to start the car.  I will most likely order a new harness ...again...but old harness has the original fusible link wire in place still.  figure i'll hook it up again just to the necessary parts to get fire to the coil and alternator, but leave off the unnecessary connections until I get it to start and run, then can replace the harness and alternator if I have to. 

[b5blue]

As you go through wiring look closely at any crimps for connectors and tug on all connections to be sure they are tight. My new Evens engine harness had one poor crimp, the main blue wire bulkhead connector. Had I not caught that before running I'd had weak ignition feed voltage.
You mentioned an electric choke, I spliced off the ALT. output wire (large black wire) to a 15amp fuse and into 40amp relay activated by ignition RUN wire. That keeps choke power draw out of ignition feed.   

[Lord Warlock]

disconnected all choke connections just to be on the safe side.  Don't want to fry this harness also.  attached it to the bulkhead today and got it mostly positioned where it needs to be, took off the regulator last week, was going to replace it, but now deciding if I want to use a single wire alternator instead, just to simplify the wiring. or switch over to a firecore distributor. 

[b5blue]

  Consider that a one wire ALT. feeds just the battery then the battery feeds the car. Mopar has ALT. output feeding the car and the battery is just for starting.  So the wires that would recharge the battery now feed the car. (Cripples the ALT gauge as you'll need to join the wires on the back of the gauge.)
  I used a 120amp Denso ALT. and set of brackets from Mancini Racing on my 70 Charger to fix low output @ idle but 70 was first year for solid state 2 field voltage regulator. I thought I saw new ALT's available now with nice output that bolt in and work like factory intended? (Simple upgrade.)
  I'm using the Firecore RTR dizzy with the square full 12V coil included and it works very well. Again (like any change) it requires some minor wiring and coil mount changes. Like my electric choke I fed the Firecore with a relay also. I joined start (brown) and run (Blue) wires under the dash and used that to turn on the relay pair for ignition and choke. The relays are tapping ALT. output wire under the hood to feed choke/ignition.
  I'm hoping someone chimes in about the newer ALTs as an option for you and we can figure out ignition as it worked okay for many years right? I did all these upgrades for specific reasons mostly to do with using the car as a daily driver/long range cruiser so I'm not really advising these changes.   

[Lord Warlock]

Hard to say it worked for years, it would occasionally start up and run, and idle just fine, but it hasn't been driven in a long time.  Now I'm starting to get nervous about tuning the points even though there hasn't been a problem with them before.  The firecore RTR distributor looks very promising as an alternative, that would bring it up to electronic ignition levels of performance, was concerned about original looks, but then decided originality can exist in my trunk if it has to, all original parts usually store in trunk.  Now I'm deciding ability to start, run and drive. 

Alternator is a question still, want a polished unit to go with the braided lines in the engine bay, I anticipate adding a 4 channel amplifier and an aftermarket stereo head unit to the car, and retaining the original radio in its original position.  Car doesn't have many electricals to worry about other than that.  I mainly intend to play mp3's via a memory stick in the car.  I don't think I really need a high powered alternator to support a single stereo upgrade, so trying to decide if I want a 55amp or maybe a 70amp alternator at most.  Still haven't pulled the trigger on the alternator, think i'm going to have to talk to the distributor guy here, just to make things simple and easier to tune, i'm thinking a firecore may be the better solution. 

[b5blue]

  Look at "idle output" ratings for ALT. when picking not total capacity. I went with the Denso as it's capable of 60amp @ idle not the higher 120amp capacity rating. (Again not saying to use Denso, it was all that fit my needs at the time and I've no cares about looks.) I used a 4X50watt stereo and by matching the speakers RMS to the deck's output have plenty of clear volume. ( 4X6.5 with 35watt RMS each.)
My RTR dizzy/coil is working great. 

[Lord Warlock]

I've opened conversation with the firecore rep, evidently there is a waiting list for RTR Dizzy's, will probably put my name on the list.

[Lord Warlock]

Well,  took new harness out of car, used new connectors from that harness and patched them onto the original harness that was on the car for last 40 years, and got it hooked up, except the voltage regulator, which I removed entirely, the new alternator is internally regulated, so shouldn't have to worry about the regulator part.  Do I connect the two regulator leads together after installing a 1 wire? I added a direct wire from alt out to starter relay with a 100 amp fuse in it.  The 100 amp 1 wire alternator is hooked up, looks good just hope it works.  Haven't tried to start it yet, but it is looking more likely every day. 
The Denso looked good, I'll keep it in mind as an alternative, I'm still a bit sketchy on the alternator gauge  wiring changes, so still reading about that, not comfortable cutting wires in the original bulkhead, so trying to figure out way to make things functional but not be a fire hazard.  Really didn't want to pull the cluster just because I added the alternator.  But also don't want to fry anything important in the cluster.  The dash wiring is all original and uncut, just hope the rats didn't chew many.

Hope the site can handle a few more threads on electronics, looks like i'll be involved with it for a few more weeks.