5yr resto almost complete, engine runs like poo, help! Carter AVS advice needed

[DAmatt]

Hi guys and gals,

Never thought it would take this long, but after almost 5 years, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel with the restoration on my car. It's turning into a beauty, have a look

Trouble is the engine runs poorly. It was rebuilt by pedaltothemetal in Holland, along with the original Carter AVS 4637S. When I got the car, the engine was worn, but it would start immediately with the Edelbrock it had on, it idled nice, and drove okay. With the Carter, it is impossible to start it without squirting into the carb, tried adjusting the idle till the screw was all the way, only at the end had it any resemblance of a tolerable idle. As for the drive, I feel the car is lacking on power, and measuring the distance it drove while consuming 20 liters, mileage is about 100L/100km, or in American talk about 2mpg.

To my limited knowledge all this points to an overly rich condition. How do I tune the Carter. I tried finding jets, rods etc, but couldn't find any. I am also located in Transylvania, Europe, so no luck in finding a carb guy like you guys have in the US.

What's a guy to do? I am also open in buying a 4637S from the States, and sending it to a Carter guru, do you guys and gals know who can rebuild AND tune an AVS, so that when it reaches me I can just bolt it on and go? Engine is set to factory specs, including the cam & manifolds, except for .030 overbore & six pack pistons, untouched heads (except for hardened valve seats), original intake & 2.25" exhaust.

I'm losing my number plates in 4 weeks, so I must get it running by then.

Any help is sorely needed, and greatly appreciated.

[BSB67]

Your limited description does not confirm a carb issue.  Can you track down a known good carb and try that before you assume the carb is the problem?

[DAmatt]

I will swap the Edelbrock that was on the engine when I bought the car, to eliminate this variable. That I know worked okay.

Thanks for the tip, will report back after testing

[maxwellwedge]

I've tried a few places over the years. For carbs that are problem free, run in and tested - you can't do better than Scott Smith.   http://www.harmsauto.com/

[ACUDANUT]

I will swap the Edelbrock that was on the engine when I bought the car, to eliminate this variable. That I know worked okay.

Thanks for the tip, will report back after testing

But that carb has been sitting/rotting too !!.  Good luck. Go Holley !!

[Nickrc3]

Replaced the original Carter AVS five years ago and continue to enjoy the performance, tuning, and reliability of the ProForm.
My swapover - http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,118268.msg1471394.html#msg1471394

[b5blue]

I used this one:  https://www.amazon.com/67208-Polished-Aluminum-Secondary-Carburetor/dp/B001G97Q74  I upped the jets a bit, adjusting is easy. 

[375instroke]

Can you see gas dribbling out the venturis?  Floats might have stuck from sitting.  Needles and seats are in the rear corners.  Tap those areas with a block of wood, or something like that, to shake them loose.

[DAmatt]

First of all, thank all of you guys for chiming in!
I swapped the Edelbrock, car runs much better, especually if I plug the PCV valve hose (why is that??) So clearly the issue is the carb...

I am doing a concours restoration on my matching #s engine, so the original carb is a must - otherwise suggestions of a more modern solution would be heeded.

I also must admit to my VERY limited experience with carbs, and also admit that this is way out of my league.
So I gave Scott @ harmsauto a call, and if he gives me the go ahead, I'll proceed in sending the carb - though I dread the custome bureaucracy with sending an item from the EU to the US...

Will keep you in the loop on the progress!

[Bronzedodge]

Any more info?  Where is your initial and total timing?  Did you verify the balancer mark before complete assembly?  Did you degree the cam?  What is the pressure on a compression gauge for all 8?

[DAmatt]

I am doing my best to educate myself on the magic of points ignition & mechanical and vacuum advance, but all I know to tell you is that at idle, the strobe thingy reads a little under 35 degrees. That's the point where the engine runs smoothest. The engine has a fluidampr installed, to eliminate the possibility of the markings moving over the years because of the old rubber on the old damper.

This is with the Edelbrock, my 4637S is currently at harmsauto, I hope Scott's reputation will be evidently seen when I bolt the part & wake the engine up

I cannot answer anything about the balancer mark being verified (the engine was done by pedaltothemetal in the Netherlands), but what I can say is that the cam was degreed, and that static compression was a whisker over 150psi. It is a bit low, but they said it's because the engine has yet to be broken in.

[b5blue]

Until "broken in" and rings getting seated blow by is going to effect PVC function. (The crankcase is being pressurized.)

[Bronzedodge]

I am doing my best to educate myself on the magic of points ignition & mechanical and vacuum advance, but all I know to tell you is that at idle, the strobe thingy reads a little under 35 degrees. That's the point where the engine runs smoothest. The engine has a fluidamper.....(snip)

I cannot answer anything about the balancer mark being verified (the engine was done by pedaltothemetal in the Netherlands), but what I can say is that the cam was degreed, and that static compression was a whisker over 150psi. It is a bit low, but they said it's because the engine has yet to be broken in.

35 degrees at idle is way wrong.   35 at 2500 rpm all in would be good, maybe 20 max at idle if it's set up for that.  Someone should check the mark vs piston position.

[DAmatt]

I'll go to the Jag dealer this weekend, and use the strobe myself... will report back

[DAmatt]

Well I've got an update:

1. correction, idle is at around 25, not 35. Car runs and sounds good with the Edelbrock, will want to see how it goes woth the Carter back on.

2. Speaking of witch, the carb is back from harmsauto, looking very good. Now... please, don't make fun of me, but I got the choke separate from the carb itself, could anybody please instruct on how does one put it back together? I get the feeling this is akin to asking how to change a tire, but in my defense, this is my first carb car, so please be gentle

Here's a pic

[XH29N0G]

For the stock manifold, there is an opening in the exhaust crossover (see picture below) where the choke well fits (picture below that) fits.  The bimetallic choke you have a picture of then fits in that well.

[b5blue]

Your gonna want to use a thermal spacer for use with modern fuel. 

[John_Kunkel]

For the stock manifold, there is an opening in the exhaust crossover (see picture below) where the choke well fits (picture below that) fits.  The bimetallic choke you have a picture of then fits in that well.

The separate stamped choke well and gasket is '70-later. The thermostat pictured fits directly in a closed choke well that doesn't open directly to the crossover gasses.

[DAmatt]

I think I got it, thanks guys!

Unfortunately, I have the crossover blocked via the valley pan gasket, how will my car behave? I am open to suggestions & advice as to what to do.

[XH29N0G]

For the stock manifold, there is an opening in the exhaust crossover (see picture below) where the choke well fits (picture below that) fits.  The bimetallic choke you have a picture of then fits in that well.

The separate stamped choke well and gasket is '70-later. The thermostat pictured fits directly in a closed choke well that doesn't open directly to the crossover gasses.

my mistake.... I was three in 1968 and didn't get into chargers until 1970.... 

I do not know what will be the best option with a blocked crossover.  Does it matter that it looks period correct or not?  If not, I assume there are a number of options.  If it matters to you, then you may have to do some engineering to optimize.  My guess is that the engine will heat up enough with time to let the choke off, but it might take longer than is ideal.

By the way, nice car.

[ACUDANUT]

For the stock manifold, there is an opening in the exhaust crossover (see picture below) where the choke well fits (picture below that) fits.  The bimetallic choke you have a picture of then fits in that well.

The separate stamped choke well and gasket is '70-later. The thermostat pictured fits directly in a closed choke well that doesn't open directly to the crossover gasses.

my mistake.... I was three in 1968 and didn't get into chargers until 1970.... 

I do not know what will be the best option with a blocked crossover.  Does it matter that it looks period correct or not?  If not, I assume there are a number of options.  If it matters to you, then you may have to do some engineering to optimize.  My guess is that the engine will heat up enough with time to let the choke off, but it might take longer than is ideal.

By the way, nice car.

You got into Chargers at 5 y/o ?

[BSB67]

Because your intake heat cross over is blocked, the choke will not function properly.  I've lived in Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania and my muscle cars that were not daily drivers did not have functional chokes.  When I drove in cool or cold weather, I simply sat in the car with some throttle and let it warm up for a few minutes.  But everyone is different.

The bimetal spring should be adjustable. Adjust it so the it still provides pressure on the choke linkage to keep the choke plate open. The choke will look correct, but will not be functional.

[ACUDANUT]

I have never had to use a choke on a BB. Now small blocks are another story, they are a must  .

[XH29N0G]

You got into Chargers at 5 y/o ?

That's when my dad bought this one.  I have memories of seeing the exhaust come out of the back of the car.  I also have memories of driving to school in the charger, and accelerating in the charger; So in a real way, yes   

[Kern Dog]

I too was born in 1965. I don't recall seeing a Charger until I was 10 years of age or older. I'm sure that they were around but what really opened my eyes to them was the Dukes of Hazzard.
It has been the same for me in many other respects though.
Once I am made aware of something, I start to see them in greater numbers.