ebay/confederate flag ban

[John_Kunkel]

Southern Pride is indeed a fact.  Many of us from the south look at the confederate flag in reverence just like they do the US Flag.  When I see the flag, It represents a time when the government was overreaching and forcing half the country into a position that it did not believe in.  These men went on to disagree so forcibly that they took up arms against the aggressor to protect their beliefs, just as the country's founders believed.

It is rightly called a Rebel Flag as it did symbolize rebellion and it still carries that symbolism to the people that covet it as a symbol of rebellion. But, just as the ancient symbol called swastika in German was co-opted by the Nazis and forever transformed into the symbol of evil, the Rebel Flag has been co-opted by racist filth to symbolize their brand of hatred.

[oldcarnut]

I live about 15 miles from where the shooting took place. There are more cars and trucks driving round with it flying now than I've seen in a long time and will likely increase as the controversy winds up.  It's still has to be voted on by the reps to take it down.  It was a sleeping dog on the porch that has been woken up and it's not wagging its tail.

[Lord Warlock]

its strange, that they couldn't get rid of it when there were hundreds of pictures of the clan using the flag, who were obviously more racist than this one clan wannabe, and they killed a lot more than 9 people.  But a handful of pictures on facebook of a geeky white teen who evidently has mental problems kills innocents and the media and oval office jump on the situation to push a resolution that ignores state rights or individual choice and acts like a mob forcing unwanted change.  

Why couldn't state residents march on the capitol and demand removal of the flag if it offended so many residents? Should have been easy to vote on the issue if it was truly needed to bury the past.

I heard today that Alabama governor has jumped on the bandwagon and is removing the flag from their public areas.  I feel sorry for the youth of today who cannot experience the south that I did when I was young, and at college.  Since its a state university, I'm pretty sure they'll force it on Troy to stop using it as well.

My question is: Why did we STOP institutionalizing mentally deficient people? When I was a kid, if you had a trouble child who displayed behavioral issues you sent him/her to private school or you committed him to a mental ward.  My daughter was forcibly held by the state for two weeks for mental issues, I wish they could have kept her for 3 months instead of rushing her out of the facility and into the eager arms of a psychiatrist for a year of treatment, but let her loose on the populace in the time being, and we couldn't control her, so she spread drama to everyone she met, still does.  Still think there's a nut loose (pun) can't tell her anything, she knows everything...but that's blamed on her age.

[Lord Warlock]

I hope the legislature votes the issue down...just to piss off the northerners/yankees who are trying to once again force change.

Will Georgia vote out the flag? Hard to believe the Duke boys won't be able to fly their standard. 

[Old Moparz]

I hope the legislature votes the issue down...just to piss off the northerners/yankees who are trying to once again force change.

Will Georgia vote out the flag? Hard to believe the Duke boys won't be able to fly their standard. 

How do you figure northerners are forcing this change? The governor of SC is not a Yankee, she's from SC & Wally-Mart is based in Arkansas. My map shows those places to be in the disgruntled south.   

[Lord Warlock]

The president was from Chicago, even if born in Hawaii...or Kenya if you believe that (not me) Chicago is a northern City, his wife is also not from the south.  He's using the bully pulpit and the media to force change upon a state that has voted numerous times in the past to keep the flag, in fact made the rules so tight that they couldn't half mast it the day of the attack.  The Governor is capitulating to outside pressure to appease people so race riots don't erupt, something that usually doesn't happen in the South very often even if there is more racial tension here than up north. 

The media is who jumped on this issue first, before the blood was dry on the church floor, the media was spinning the issue to force the south to change because it offends people that don't live in the state or the south.  The governor saw that by making this gesture she could look more acceptable to outside influences such as Northern politicians and Media groups.  She didn't have the authority to change it, but decided on her own that it was needed, and needed now.  Too bad that the republicans have a representative that is gunshy of the media and its cronies.  She isn't my governor, so I can't impact the situation other than adding my voice to the discussion.  At least I am from the south, was educated in the south, and have lived through times of real change of racial norms, and I still have a voice and will raise it when the situation is called for. 

Is the Confederate flag worth fighting for? I'm talking about real fighting where blows are traded or people take up arms, No I do not believe it is worth that much trouble, I think we've come a long way from what things were like in the 50s and 60s, but that doesn't mean I can't use my voice to defend it.  (or my fingers in this case)

There are lots of things I find offensive, but I keep those to myself to preserve peace, plus people my age typically don't get nasty or act out just because we disagree on something or its offensive.  I see lots of things against Christianity that are wrong, favoring muslims and non residents of the country, I find it offensive but I'm not a Christian so I let the church defend itself...unless they asked for help. 

[el dub]

Damn, I didn't know wally world was based in Arkansas. Course I never cared or looked it up but now I can understand where their getting all those wally world photos on the internet

[Old Moparz]

Carlin Said It Best.

[el dub]

or there's this

[ITSA426]

I've never understood pledging allegiance to a garment, any garment.  I see a need for real education in history; not the fairy tale stuff we learned in elementary school.  I think if people learned to see history from the loser's perspective things would look very different.  A lot of misinformation and assumptions, even in this thread, would be seen differently.

[skip68]

This isn't a north or south thing, it's a caving in to pressures from African Americans that we just can't say NO to them about anything or they scream we're racist and once again we're responsible for their large population of failures.   

[ITSA426]

Or we could look at the Confederate flag as they see it, and what it represents to them.  This world could gain a lot if people would simply respect the position of other people.  That might change our perspectives.  A lot of these things changed during the sixties.  There is so much information available.

[el dub]

The exact same thing going on in the late sixties is going on again. We have come full circle.

[ITSA426]

Observant.  Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.  The meaning of that becomes more clear.  It's hard to believe that would all come around in my lifetime.  We seem so reluctant to learn from our mistakes.

[Mike DC]

We remember history so well that we keep voting the same couple of families into office.   

[polywideblock]

couldn't the south just secede again   ,problem solved   

[69wannabe]

This isn't a north or south thing, it's a caving in to pressures from African Americans that we just can't say NO to them about anything or they scream we're racist and once again we're responsible for their large population of failures.   

This is well said Skip!!! I hate that people lost their lives at a place you would expect to be safe. If one of my family member's were one of the victim's I would be pissed but I wouldn't be blaming a flag or a gun I would be counting the days til the bastard goes up like a roman candle.... Flags and guns do not kill people, it is people that kill people....

[Todd Wilson]

I live about 15 miles from where the shooting took place. There are more cars and trucks driving round with it flying now than I've seen in a long time and will likely increase as the controversy winds up.  It's still has to be voted on by the reps to take it down.  It was a sleeping dog on the porch that has been woken up and it's not wagging its tail.

[el dub]

Far as I know it looks like the deal about free speech just went down the drain. Unless your Ben Jones who runs the Cooters Place stores. He, real man that he is, is not going to take jack shit off the shelves and is going to continue selling the reb flag and all the dukes of hazard stuff he can. Hooray for One Hero in our sorry ass country.   

[skip68]

Far as I know it looks like the deal about free speech just went down the drain. Unless your Ben Jones who runs the Cooters Place stores. He, real man that he is, is not going to take jack shit off the shelves and is going to continue selling the reb flag and all the dukes of hazard stuff he can. Hooray for One Hero in our sorry ass country.   

Amen to that.     
Right there is a true American.   

[Ponch ®]

Far as I know it looks like the deal about free speech just went down the drain. Unless your Ben Jones who runs the Cooters Place stores. He, real man that he is, is not going to take jack shit off the shelves and is going to continue selling the reb flag and all the dukes of hazard stuff he can. Hooray for One Hero in our sorry ass country.  

Again, this is NOT a free speech issue. By definition, your right to free speech is only infringed if it is a governmental institution suppressing it. Amazon and ebay are not government institutions. this is merely a business decision by corporations not to sell products that a large number of paying customers find objectionable.

You know, like when Walmart refuses to carry certain books or music it finds offensive.

No one's told Ben Jones he can't keep selling his stuff. he's no hero, he's just cashing in on the publicity. and at least that's pretty American.

[HPT BANDIT]

If anyone feels guilty for having money with a pictures of a slave owner on it. Please send it to me and I will dispose of it properly : )

[el dub]

Ours is a nation of free speech and expression. This action is directly opposing that. edited.

[skip68]

Ponch, with all doo doo respect you're splitting hairs.   

[Ponch ®]

Ponch, with all doo doo respect you're splitting hairs.  

Ours is a nation of free speech and expression. This action is directly opposing that. edited.

No, im not. Its a fine distinction, but a very important one.

The Bill of Rights (and most of the US Constitution) - here the 1st amendment specificallly is there to protect us from the government suppression of speech.

It does not apply to private individuals / corporations. That's why, for example, Troy locking this thread or banning certain topics is NOT infringing on your freedom of speech. The idea is that you're here by choice and know the rules. No one is forcing you to buy exclusively from amazon or ebay. They are not the government and can't force you to do anything. You're free to take your rebel flag buying business elsewhere, and help Ben Jones buy another boat.

So, if the South Carolina government said: "we're taking down the flag.....and we're banning it from sales in stores and from private homes", then you would have an argument that this is about free speech. But they're not.

As far as state govenrments removing the flag, the government itself has a right to free speech as well, and in this case is exercising it by choosing to remove the flag from its buildings, license plates, etc.

But here, you, Skip and el dub, have all the freedom you want to make, sell, buy, or display the flag any way you want as long as its in your person or property. It's your right and its not being taken away any time soon, despite the "slippery slope" paranoia. That's just not how it works. Hate speech is still protected speech. If it weren't, swastikas, KKK paraphernalia, the n-word itself, and a host of other things would have already been outlawed.

The fact that society may not find it acceptable is an entirely different issue, but does not take away your right to display it. Just be ready to get a lot of weird looks and to do a lot of explaining about why its not racist according to you.  

So, you can say I'm splitting hairs and whatnot. But I'm sure you will agree that this is a nation governed by laws and Constitutional principles, not by what "feels right". Otherwise, you're no better than those liberals that "split hairs" about whether or not the second amendment really protects your right to bear arms or not.