So who's taking the flag off their Chargers?

[440]

So what's going to happen if a gun law get's passed, with gay marriage equality, with more wonderful ideas from obama? Lets face it, the country is in dire need of help. How long can peace be maintained with the country so split and so divided on so many issues?

[bristol]

Just like guns when Obama got in, I bet there are more confederate flags flying right now than in history. I had no interest in ARs before, my son and I own 4 now and a cabinet full of ammo. Obama was the best thing for gun sales ever, and the government and others will do more for the South rising again because of their stupid making an issue over a non issue.

I will say I'm in Tennessee and I have seen more Confederate flags flying in the past week than ever before. But about 90% of the people also had an American flag right beside it.

You can still but a Nazi flag though.

[keith88]

So what's going to happen if a gun law get's passed, with gay marriage equality, with more wonderful ideas from obama? Lets face it, the country is in dire need of help. How long can peace be maintained with the country so split and so divided on so many issues?

Your getting to political it will result in this thread getting locked if your not careful.

[blinkey]

        The only ray of hope now is Trump.

[skip68]

   
Getting into gun laws and gay marriage will end this thread.  

[JB400]

        The only ray of hope now is Trump.

Let's let the other people talk first before we, as Americans, make that decision.

The TV Land debacle has gotten John to speak out now.  How long till the others do?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/07/02/bo-duke-tweets-photo-of-dylann-roof-in-protest-after-tv-land-dumps-dukes-of-hazzard/

[keith88]

       The only ray of hope now is Trump.

OH GOD HELL NO!!!!!!

[440]

The flag was removed from the AMT box art of the General lee model back around '99 or so.

The flag on my Charger isn't going anywhere.....

[skip68]

        The only ray of hope now is Trump.

Right now the only thing about Trump I like is his calling the the media and Macy's weak.  We as a country are in desperate need for an aggressive strong president that won't cave, back down or pussy foot around.  One that's attitude towards another country that doesn't like what we're doing is "so what"    
But again, we shouldn't go down that road in this thread.  

[keith88]

Hes a self absorbed moron with a huge ego that would be the worst thing this country could do.But that's for another forum.  Enough of that

[Daytona R/T SE]

Hes a self absorbed moron with a huge ego that would be the worst thing this country could do.

You've  just described the current President.

[fizz]

The point is, the more THEY say or suggest WE can't, the more WE are going to show we damn sure can. The sad part is, where the focus should be, as far as a crazy guy murdering people in a church, it should be US(everybody) vs. him (crazy guy).

[Brass]

Please cut the political bullshit.  I know this topic veers into that but we can try to limit comments to what is germane.  So getting back to the original question...  If I had a General Lee, I would not take the flag off and would be prepared to discuss that choice with any who questioned it.  Nor do I think DoH should go away.  Over reaction is happing on *both* sides and I hope that will be righted eventually.  Yet my stance on the flag itself (it belongs primarily in history books, museums, or reenactments) hasn't changed.  I don't understand the willful reluctance to accept why it is controversial.  Which it undeniably is.  It is offensive to many.  If this were put to a nation-wide vote, how do you think that would turn out for you?  For those who claim to care about history, I'll drop the quote below and try to leave it at that.  I'm really just here for the Chargers anyway.

Confederate "Vice President" Alexander Stephens:
"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science."

[keith88]

I 2nd that enough of the political mud slinging!! back to topic.

[skip68]

 I don't understand the willful reluctance to accept why it is controversial.  I'm really just here for the Chargers anyway.

Confederate "Vice President" Alexander Stephens:
"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science."

OK, I'll try and help you understand.  I don't think anyone here has said it's not controversial because it obviously is.  To a point.   The controversy is how far they want to take this and by labeling anyone that has the flag a racist.   We're also angry at retailers who are helping send that message by pulling merchandise from the shelves.  And angry at media by pulling good (non racist) shows off the air and other things alike.     I think you get the point.    

Far as the quote from some dead racist vice presidents opinion.  
Pick just about any of our idolized heroes from the past that may have been great men and done or accomplished great things and I'm sure we can find all kinds of statements, beliefs and disturbing unacceptable (by today's standards) things.   If we did this we'd have nothing left and have to erase just about all from public display.   That's common sense my friend.   I'm not interested in trying to go backwards to the mindset of the civil war but that's what the others are trying to do.   The only answer I have for those that want this and are that emotionally disturbed is That's their problem.  I'm not buying it.
With all due respect of course.   Not trying to be rude brass or disrespectful.   

[cdr]

Skippy for president      

[68pplcharger]

 I don't understand the willful reluctance to accept why it is controversial.  I'm really just here for the Chargers anyway.

Confederate "Vice President" Alexander Stephens:
"Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science."

OK, I'll try and help you understand.  I don't think anyone here has said it's not controversial because it obviously is.  To a point.   The controversy is how far they want to take this and by labeling anyone that has the flag a racist.   We're also angry at retailers who are helping send that message by pulling merchandise from the shelves.  And angry at media by pulling good (non racist) shows off the air and other things alike.     I think you get the point.    

Far as the quote from some dead racist vice presidents opinion.  
Pick just about any of our idolized heroes from the past that may have been great men and done or accomplished great things and I'm sure we can find all kinds of statements, beliefs and disturbing unacceptable (by today's standards) things.   If we did this we'd have nothing left and have to erase just about all from public display.   That's common sense my friend.   I'm not interested in trying to go backwards to the mindset of the civil war but that's what the others are trying to do.   The only answer I have for those that want this and are that emotionally disturbed is That's their problem.  I'm not buying it.
With all due respect of course.   Not trying to be rude brass or disrespectful.   

I agree with Skip68 about Idealized heroes and what their opinions would have been. I don't think the Union was any less Racist than anyone else of that time. If you have ever read about the original intent of the Emancipation Proclamation it only freed slaves in the states that were not in control of the union at the time. i.e. It was done as a Military tactic to gain more Union Soldiers and it worked. The union gained some 200,000 Black soldiers that helped defeat the Confederacy. No matter the intent, it did lead to eventually changing a great wrong in this country.

Sorry for the sidebar, but the PC train is going a little crazy in this country. To ban a TV show that was against racism because of a Historical symbol on the roof of a car is crazy.

I don't have a GL Charger, but if I did I would leave it as is and enjoy it... You can't worry about what other ignorant people think of you. 

[Brass]

OK, I'll try and help you understand.  I don't think anyone here has said it's not controversial because it obviously is.  To a point.   The controversy is how far they want to take this and by labeling anyone that has the flag a racist.   We're also angry at retailers who are helping send that message by pulling merchandise from the shelves.  And angry at media by pulling good (non racist) shows off the air and other things alike.     I think you get the point.    

Far as the quote from some dead racist vice presidents opinion.  
Pick just about any of our idolized heroes from the past that may have been great men and done or accomplished great things and I'm sure we can find all kinds of statements, beliefs and disturbing unacceptable (by today's standards) things.   If we did this we'd have nothing left and have to erase just about all from public display.   That's common sense my friend.   I'm not interested in trying to go backwards to the mindset of the civil war but that's what the others are trying to do.   The only answer I have for those that want this and are that emotionally disturbed is That's their problem.  I'm not buying it.
With all due respect of course.   Not trying to be rude brass or disrespectful.    

Thanks for your comments, Skip.  I understand the frustration with the retailers and Warner Brothers.  I share it.  At least with the latter.  But that is their choice.  What bothers me is (imo) we shouldn't sound like victims who can't bring ourselves to acknowledge what all the hubbub is about. If we accept there are still racial issues and admit why the confederate flag is a tarnished symbol (I cannot overstate this), we may come off better to the people we're trying to convince that DoH isn't racist.  Maybe objections to the over-correction taking place would be more easily received.  Context has bearing on what is going on too.  In the wake of the events in Charleston, I can forgive people for wanting to take positive (or perceived to be positive) action in the face of something as awful as that.  Calling for change feels better than frustration, powerlessness and handwringing.  Society is fed up and they want to *do* something.  I agree there were missteps in a rush to react – but defensiveness and deflection isn't going to help our case.  Finally, I don't think the quote I provided should be so readily dismissed because it speaks directly to the "corner-stone" of the confederacy.

I hasten to add that we must go backwards to the mindset of the civil war because the confederate flag is inexorably linked to it.  Otherwise we are cherry picking history and what it means.

[Ghoste]

Which is why it is known as his "Cornerstone Speech", however I wonder how many of the unwashed masses both North and South felt?  No way we can ever know of course. 

[skip68]

/quote]

I hasten to add that we must go backwards to the mindset of the civil war because the confederate flag is inexorably linked to it.  Otherwise we are cherry picking history and what it means.

I agree.  You're absolutely right. 

[keith88]

Brass is exactly right,what i see is a lot of southern people really mad and cant seem to see the other side that the rest of the country sees always blaming the north saying they had slaves to ,all that is true but it seems to me that the south dose not see the flag as the symbol that it is widely used for, and that people who use it use it because of the reputation for what it stood for . I for one think it has gone to far ,I am not for it being flown on state land but you should be able to fly it other places if you see fit. I for one will still be putting it on my roof when i pull the top off.

[Mike DC]

  
We may indeed never see officially-produced General Lee toys with a flag again.  


But as for kicking the actual DOH episodes off the air?  I'm not that worried about it.  

In the last few days I have not encountered anyone who didn't think banning 'Dukes' is an overreaction.  It will probably blow over eventually.  I'm not gonna get worked up over this unless DOH is still being kept out of circulation two years from now.  

[Brass]

 
We may indeed never see officially-produced General Lee toys with a flag again.  


But as for kicking the actual DOH episodes off the air?  I'm not that worried about it.  

In the last few days I have not encountered anyone who didn't think banning 'Dukes' is an overreaction.  It will probably blow over eventually.  I'm not gonna get worked up over this unless DOH is still being kept out of circulation two years from now.  

I don't think it hurts to weigh in with Warner Brothers either.

[skip68]

OK, I'll try and help you understand.  I don't think anyone here has said it's not controversial because it obviously is.  To a point.   The controversy is how far they want to take this and by labeling anyone that has the flag a racist.   We're also angry at retailers who are helping send that message by pulling merchandise from the shelves.  And angry at media by pulling good (non racist) shows off the air and other things alike.     I think you get the point.    

Far as the quote from some dead racist vice presidents opinion.  
Pick just about any of our idolized heroes from the past that may have been great men and done or accomplished great things and I'm sure we can find all kinds of statements, beliefs and disturbing unacceptable (by today's standards) things.   If we did this we'd have nothing left and have to erase just about all from public display.   That's common sense my friend.   I'm not interested in trying to go backwards to the mindset of the civil war but that's what the others are trying to do.   The only answer I have for those that want this and are that emotionally disturbed is That's their problem.  I'm not buying it.
With all due respect of course.   Not trying to be rude brass or disrespectful.    

In the wake of the events in Charleston, I can forgive people for wanting to take positive (or perceived to be positive) action in the face of something as awful as that.  Calling for change feels better than frustration, powerlessness and handwringing.  Society is fed up and they want to *do* something.  I agree there were missteps in a rush to react – but defensiveness and deflection isn't going to help our case.  

I had to go back and read what you said again.   Very true.  

[cdr]

to some on here, just keep bashing the south, you can stay up north!!!!!!!!!!