So who's taking the flag off their Chargers?

[Back N Black]

What kill me is, I don't know the percentage of gays and their group, but I think it is pretty small on the whole. Same with blacks, I don't know the percentage of blacks in America but I'm sure it is small also. So how is it these small groups of people can get what they want yet the middle class of America, which isn't a small group, is bent over constantly, getting it in the butt. Or am I perceiving it wrong?

So you saying that its not possible for gays and blacks to be middle class Americans? All people are equal because they are gay or black does not make you better man. You're a raciest and homophobic. Sad that it still exist in the 21st century.

[Mike DC]

                      
Gays are not uncommon in any population.  Some estimates have it up around 10% for all human populations if you include bisexuality.  

Black people are a real portion of our US population.  Always have been.    

A lot of interracial marriage/children in the last 40 years has broadened that percentage too. Look at Barack Obama - he still looks decidedly black by our culture's standards even though he is a 50/50 mix of African & Caucasian.  A person only gets identified as white around here if they look 75% Caucasian (this has been criticized on principle.)  

---------------------------------------------

Politics aside and from a aesthetic view, the confederate flag is one of the better looking flags imo and fills the blank space on the roof very well.
I think it ads more to the GL then the O1 on the doors have done.

This frustrates me too.  The car really looks better with the flag.  The 3 primary colors, the symmetrical & diagonal lines, etc.  What are you gonna replace it with?

If they were first launching the show today they could have put a regular US flag on the Duke Boys' car and it would have gone over really well.  (I heard that some messed-up US college wanted to ban it recently for being offensive!)  But after the car has been Confederate for 40 years the south & midwest would scream at that idea now.  

The most logical thing to put on the roof would be a third big '01' facing the left side (like a circle track car normally has).  But now you're basically down to just an orange car with some black numbers.  Nowhere near as interesting & strong, visually.




This line of thinking is ultimately futile IMO.  

The show was about rednecks running from the cops.  The car gets about 8 mpg and no pollution controls.  The Confederate flag makes the look.  The horn plays 'Dixie'.  It's named 'General Lee'.  By the time you take enough out of that car for political correctness there is nothing else left.    

And that is why people love it today.    

[charger_fan_4ever]

They approve to remove the flag yet its ok to sell weed legally in Colorado. Crazy stuff going on in the world.

[Brass]

From what I've read in this thread and the other, I'm pretty much in agreement with Ponch.  I don't want the flag flying over state capitals or stamped onto government issued license plates, and I don't think removing it from those places threatens free speech.  No one is being prevented from hanging it on their walls, wearing it on their ball caps, marching it through the streets, selling it, or keeping it on their Charger.  But how people are regarded for displaying the flag is another matter.  Symbols do have meaning, and I am unmoved by efforts to whitewash aspects of what the confederate flag signifies to a great many Americans.  All of that being said, it does seem like an over-correction is happening, and I can't help being sad to learn of Warner Brothers' decision to stop licensing the General Lee toys.  It makes me wonder if it's possible for another party to eventually acquire the property.  Warner Bros. is still a profit driven company and although they may no longer feel the product fits their band, it seems conceivable they could sell the rights at a later time(?)        

[303 Mopar]

They approve to remove the flag yet its ok to sell weed legally in Colorado. Crazy stuff going on in the world.

Don't forget same sex marriages......

[HPP]

Black people are a real portion of our US population.  Always have been.    

 

According to the US Census:

White alone, percent, 2013 (a)  77.7%
Hispanic or Latino, percent definition and source info Hispanic or Latino, percent, 2013 (b)  17.1%
Black or African American alone, percent definition and source info Black or African American alone, percent, 2013 (a)  13.2%
Asian alone, percent definition and source info Asian alone, percent, 2013 (a)  5.3%
American Indian and Alaska Native alone, percent definition and source info American Indian and Alaska Native alone, percent, 2013 (a)  1.2%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone, percent definition and source info Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone, percent, 2013 (a)  0.2%

Two or More Races, percent definition and source info Two or More Races, percent, 2013  2.4%

The show was about rednecks running from the cops.  The car gets about 8 mpg and no pollution controls.  The Confederate flag makes the look.  The horn plays 'Dixie'.  It's named 'General Lee'.  By the time you take enough out of that car for political correctness there is nothing else left.    

And that is why people love it today.  

Agreed, and I think in the bigger context of things, the General may be given a pass on this issue in the public's mind, but at the moment its all just a lot of insults being hurled about.

They approve to remove the flag yet its ok to sell weed legally in Colorado. Crazy stuff going on in the world.

Actually, 4 states and DC have legalized weed for recreational use. Another 20 have approved it for medicinal uses. Perhaps since they are exercising states rights over Federal providence, they all should have adopted a rebel flag of some sort?  But I agree there is crazy stuff going on in the world.

From what I've read in this thread and the other, I'm pretty much in agreement with Ponch.  I don't want the flag flying over state capitals or stamped onto government issued license plates, and I don't think removing it from those places threatens free speech.  No one is being prevented from hanging it on their walls, wearing it on their ball caps, marching it through the streets, selling it, or keeping it on their Charger.  But how people regard them because of that is another matter.  Symbols do have meaning, and I am unmoved by efforts to whitewash aspects of what the confederate flag signifies to a great many Americans.  All of that being said, it does seem like an over-correction is happening,         

I agree with this as well.  Try as we might, we can't undo the fact that the Flag in question was never an official CSA flag. It was the battle flag of the Army of Tennessee under Nathan Bedford Forrest, who was involved in the early formation of the KKK. Variation of the flag were instituted into several state versions in direct protest of the Civil Rights legislation pushed at different times by the Federal government. Additionally, it is still held up today by institutions who prefer to use it to push their agenda of hatred.

This ship has sailed, but interested parties, like the Sons of the Confederacy or such, should have trademarked or copyrighted the flag so they could have protected its use. Then we wouldn't have had this problem.

[Old Moparz]

 
What if you're a gay black man from the south?    
There's a flag I'd like to see.      
And why don't we have a flag?   You know, something that says "I'm a proud straight white American" ?? Would they be offended by that?   Of course they would.      
White, straight and American, the new minority.

[skip68]

So they're still wearing hoodies, just a different type and more fashionable.   

I'm kinda surprised we haven't had some new member join up just to bash us for having lots of General Lee's and supporting the General Lee.   

[skip68]

I agree with back N black el dub.  After reading it again it's saying gays and blacks are below white middle class.   I'm presuming that's not what you meant but just the way it came out.  Right?  

I'll guarantee you we have many members here that are black and gay
 My buddy Jimmy is one and I'll guarantee you he's not below middle class.   The problem is with the radicals in the black community and the masses that are making a lifestyle of ghetto drug life not ALL black people.  
 There's lots of normal middle class blacks that hate the ghetto and radical blacks just the same as we "whites" hate and make fun
of white trailer trash.   Yes, not all ghetto blacks are bad and not all trailer park whites are bad but the overall lifestyles are equally branded the same.  
That's why crime rates are higher in the ghettos and trash parks.  It's a poverty issue not color.  Lower income areas are riddled with crime and drugs no matter the color of the ones that dwell there.   That's why the cops are always there and watching these areas.  It's just not as noticed with the whites as much because the ghettos are larger.   
Every city or town has its bad areas and that's where you'll find higher police presence and trouble.   Color doesn't matter.   It just depends on where you are.   

[Mike DC]

            
           
I think the GL will continue to be given a near/total pass on this issue for years to come.


But how many years?  The original TV show viewers are mostly 40+.  The 2005 movie was a bust.  It's a matter of time before the GL loses that free pass just because the public's memory of the show will fade.  

The cable channel re-runs and the Auto Trader commercials have been good for DOH.  Nothing else is still putting the car in front of the mainstream youth audience.        




It's also a problem now if Warner Bros does a new DOH project and removes the flag.  That gives GL owners pressure to conform to the new "official" look.  

The average citizen is not going to be moved by explanations that your GL is exactly cloned from a certain season of the old TV show.  People just write you off as a racist-behind-closed-doors whenever you start trying to explain anything.      

[Mytur Binsdirti]

Can't argue with a guy who isn't wrong.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/black-civil-rights-icon-the-problem-is-blacks-killing-other-blacks-not-the-confederate-flag.html

[skip68]

Thanks dirty T.     
That man is saying the truth.   

[keith88]

From what I've read in this thread and the other, I'm pretty much in agreement with Ponch.  I don't want the flag flying over state capitals or stamped onto government issued license plates, and I don't think removing it from those places threatens free speech.  No one is being prevented from hanging it on their walls, wearing it on their ball caps, marching it through the streets, selling it, or keeping it on their Charger.  But how people are regarded for displaying the flag is another matter.  Symbols do have meaning, and I am unmoved by efforts to whitewash aspects of what the confederate flag signifies to a great many Americans.  All of that being said, it does seem like an over-correction is happening, and I can't help being sad to learn of Warner Brothers' decision to stop licensing the General Lee toys.  It makes me wonder if it's possible for another party to eventually acquire the property.  Warner Bros. is still a profit driven company and although they may no longer feel the product fits their band, it seems conceivable they could sell the rights at a later time(?)        

I agree with both as well (You and ponch)

[el dub]

What kill me is, I don't know the percentage of gays and their group, but I think it is pretty small on the whole. Same with blacks, I don't know the percentage of blacks in America but I'm sure it is small also. So how is it these small groups of people can get what they want yet the middle class of America, which isn't a small group, is bent over constantly, getting it in the butt. Or am I perceiving it wrong?

So you saying that its not possible for gays and blacks to be middle class Americans? All people are equal because they are gay or black does not make you better man. You're a raciest and homophobic. Sad that it still exist in the 21st century.

Not. I'm just pointing out how small groups are getting all the ink and the middle class (large group) keeps on.......I don't care about gays and blacks, I care about me and mine.

[Brass]

What kill me is, I don't know the percentage of gays and their group, but I think it is pretty small on the whole. Same with blacks, I don't know the percentage of blacks in America but I'm sure it is small also. So how is it these small groups of people can get what they want yet the middle class of America, which isn't a small group, is bent over constantly, getting it in the butt. Or am I perceiving it wrong?

So you saying that its not possible for gays and blacks to be middle class Americans? All people are equal because they are gay or black does not make you better man. You're a raciest and homophobic. Sad that it still exist in the 21st century.

Not. I'm just pointing out how small groups are getting all the ink and the middle class (large group) keeps on.......I don't care about gays and blacks, I care about me and mine.

Shouldn't we care about equality for all Americans under the law?  Majorities cannot deprive minorities of basic rights.

[skip68]

I hear you Keith.  But the problem is that the flag means a lot of different things to a lot of different people.   Just because one group says they don't like it doesn't make it right to try and demonize it for all.   Even the black community as a whole is torn about it.  So, you have a group within a group of MANY groups that's saying it needs to go.   Doesn't make much sense does it?  Doesn't sound very fair does it?      These people want to demonize the confederate flag as a direct symbol of hate.  They don't want to see it anywhere.  Yes, that means on your car or in your front yard.   They want movies banned, toys, uncle Ben's rice, aunt jemima's syrup and the list goes on.   Just because they can't enforce this at this point doesn't mean it's not what they want.  And they will try and push to get it.   By allowing them to brand the flag as completely evil and a symbol of hate makes it dangerous for us to express our freedoms of speech or expression for fear of retaliation.   Didn't you yourself say you won't drive your kids in the car for fear of something bad happening?    I fully agree with you on that choice by the way.   Right there you've already lost that freedom of such a simple thing.    Or was it or member from Texas that said he wouldn't drive with his kids?   Either way, it's the same.  

But, like some have said, you're still free to do what you want and they're not trying to take our freedom of speech or expression away   The risk is yours.  
And for those that think this isn't about freedom of speech or expression, take a confederate flag, go down to Martin Luther King Blvd and stand there with it for just 15 minutes.    
Then tell us how that works out for you.    Remember, it's your right. It's a public place and they aren't trying to take that away from us.  

[Brass]

Skip, freedom of speech protects your right to say what you want.  It doesn't protect you from the consequences of what you say.  Standing on a corner with the confederate flag is an open invitation for others to exercise their freedom to tell you what they think about what you're doing, and how they feel about you for doing it.  I can accept the confederate flag may carry different meanings for different people – but let's stop pretending there is no connection to southern sedition and white resistance regarding slavery.  If you think it is just a small group of people on the fringe who feel that way, you're deluding yourself.  The South went to war with the US government and lost.  The US government has no obligation to display the confederate flag in any official capacity.

[skip68]

Brass, of course there was a connection.   The point is it's being blown up into something it's not.  Andrew Young said it correctly in the link a couple posts above.  A flag falls under symbolic speech.   
Of course standing on the corner with the flag is going to invite a probable bad outcome and I was being sarcastic but that was my point.  You can't have freedom of speech if you have fear of physical retaliation.       
Our good old American flag is stained with blood since the civil war and dam near wiped out an entire nation of people.   Horrible things were done behind the good old American flag.  Is it next?   

[keith88]

Again he is right (Brass), Only to a southerner dose the flag mean something other than a rebel slavery f--k the north attitude. I have lived both places and was born in the north not knowing anything about the civil war as a kid and learned the hard way when i moved to the deep south ,so bad had to move back north. I hope its better now but even i have a reason to not like the flag but i still wouldn't take it off my car!

[skip68]

I remember I lived in Jackson Mississippi back when I was 18 in the late 80's.  I was only there for about 5 months with a buddy but it was full of racism.  Mostly in the older crowd.  I kid you not, they had commercials for the kkk as a club.     
Coming from California it was a complete culture shock.   I ended up back in California needless to say.    I'd like to think it's changed since then.   

[Brass]

The point is it's being blown up into something it's not.  

Do I have my history wrong?  Did the Southern states rebel or not?  Whatever for?  Why do hate groups continue to flock to the confederate flag even today?  What do you think the US soldiers who died to preserve the union would say about it if they could?

You can't have freedom of speech if you have fear of physical retaliation.  

How many civil rights leaders learned that the hard way and spoke out anyway?  Come to think of it, I can understand why some believe displaying the confederate flag disrespects their memory.  I'm also not condoning physical retaliation - that's wrong/illegal and it doesn't really speak to the debate.

Our good old American flag is stained with blood since the civil war and dam near wiped out an entire nation of people.   Horrible things were done behind the good old American flag.  Is it next?    

No.  But it's good to recognize that, improve, and not run from our own culpability.

[skip68]

The only reason I can think of for the flag being used by different hate groups is it's a symbol of rebellion.   
The bad thing I just found out is that the kkk has been given the approval to hold a rally on July 18'th.    
This will just validate the claims more that it's evil and racist.   If the southerners don't want this to become the official symbol of white supremacy then they better run those kkk retards out of town.   
It's sad but two hate groups (1 on each side) is going to really make a mess of this whole flag garbage.   

[Mike DC]

 

The mainstream public will only ever remember a one-sentence explanation for any war.  With the Civil War it's abolishing slavery.  When you rally behind the 150yo flag of the losing side, people think you're racist.  The reasoning here is not hard to understand. 

[skip68]

I think before this gets bad between any of us members I'm going to simplify it.  
I think what's happening is wrong.  The flag banning is not the answer.  The flag had nothing to do with the murders of those innocent church members.   It is a part of the history of this country of a war that split the nation brother against brother and all lives lost in that war should be honored.  
I respect others opinions here regardless if I agree or not.  
I can only hope that this doesn't get worse than what it already is and come to a point where we are removing the flags off the cars.  
Thanks for keeping this civil guys.   All of you.    

[Mike DC]

   
I agree that restricting the CBF solves nothing and mainly distracts from the deeper causes of all this.