Do we still have old school inventors?

[sunfire69]

Just to throw it out there..I don't think batteries are the way to go....I've always wondered about using capacitors ....in essence it's just a battery that only holds it's charge for a short time...as in hours or just a few days...it can be recharged in just a few minuets, in about as much time as it takes to put 20 gal of gas in a car ...you can control the discharge rate with a resistive circuit...just like we do now in most of our electronics....it would just have to be a really big one or a series of smaller ones....at this point in time I think the problem is we don't have the right materials to build one big enough that will hold a big enough charge to run a car.... the concept is simple and used everyday....where the inventor comes in is how do we make it big enough and safe enough to put in a car.....just sayn....

[Mike DC]

  
The common viewpoint is, "Battery-fueled cars will become practical as soon as battery tech catches up to gasoline."

This is like saying, "Space exploration will advance quickly as soon as we get faster-than-light propulsion sorted out."  


We're not talking about some little detail that hasn't gotten enough attention yet.  This is the THE central issue that shapes the whole effort.  People have been researching it for generations.  We can't just assume a solution is right around the corner.  In fact there may never be a very practical solution for it.

[ws23rt]

 
The common viewpoint is, "Battery-fueled cars will become practical as soon as battery tech catches up to gasoline."

This is like saying, "Space exploration will advance quickly as soon as we get faster-than-light propulsion sorted out."  


We're not talking about some little detail that hasn't gotten enough attention yet.  This is the THE central issue that shapes the whole effort.  People have been researching it for generations.  We can't just assume a solution is right around the corner.  In fact there may never be a very practical solution for it.

I'm with you on this.  Batteries have been steadily improved over many years and the improvements have been diminishing with the effort. This tells me a fundamental change in the idea of electrical storage is needed. Capacitors IMO are just another kind of battery with similar diminishing improvements. Also since capacitors can discharge all at once there is that added hazard.

Using liquid hydrogen would meet the issue half way by running IC engines in a clean way but vast changes in infrastructure (manufacturing, transport, etc.) as well as answering the safety question about carrying the fuel in the car need to be considered.

We will continue to seek the holy grail but in the mean time life goes on. The fuels we are using are IMO being recycled back into the environment as naturally as worms turn over the soil. We are as natural as worms and who is to say that what we are doing is bad or good.

I've said and wondered before. Why is what we do in this world considered bad?  Volcanos burp and the continental plates push up and turn over the soil as we speak. Do we fear those changes?  Further on that do we think we can stop those things if someone convinced us we would die unless we did?

What we do is just a spit in the ocean as far as the world in concerned.

I don't like to live in a messy place and most don't. I don't like to offend someone next to me with a mess I made so I don't.

As we increase in number we naturally affect each other more and more. There is a natural balance for that sort of thing and a natural solution.

[XH29N0G]

You have a point that the Earth is essentially a closed system so using fuel just sends carbon back to some place where it will eventually be recycled and also that good/bad may not necessarily apply.  Change also may not be bad for some, but I think the issue that many (incl me) are concerned with is the unknown and also that change may make some things harder and more difficult for numbers of people.  I am not so much concerned for myself, but for my kids and their kids (should they have them).  My worries are about the consequences for food, water, and disease.  Something like climate change and population change might just have an impact.  I figure they will find some sort of fuel, and some sort of way to make their car go faster - in fact that seems like the main thing on my son's (and daughter's) mind.  My mom pulled me aside last Sunday to say I had really started something.

[kiwitrev]

I agree and by no means was I trying to make it sound easy, but when you have so many fighting against something or a direction, you will not find the needed key very easily.. I see things in a different way than most.. When I was a kid in science class we were asked do invent something. I didn't know how to do it, but told my teacher I wanted to invent a pair of glasses that would read a book for me.. He thought that was funny and asked me how I came up with that. I told him I was watching Star Trek with my grandfather and he told me that one day they would invent a real 2-way phone like they used on the show.. Carry it anywhere and talk to anyone just like being on the phone, but without the chord.. Somehow I just don't think figuring out how to make an interchangeable battery that can drive a car a few hundred miles is out of reach!! I do believe the CELL PHONE came from STAR TREK!!!   

And let's not forget, we once set a goal of going to the MOON!!!!! 

FYI this has been done "exchangeable batteries to power a car" Tesla model S in california (i have been driving all electric Tesla for over two years) http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/battery-swap-pilot-program

[kiwitrev]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VH4JloWFEI

tesla has electric cars done the model S can go anywhere in the US that a gas car can upto 300 mile range on the freeway and superchargers charge in less than an hour for free. i speak from experience i drive one. and SUPER quick

[Chad L. Magee]

Yes, old school inventors exist, but they are not as common as they used to be.  Remember that science and math are not things that interest the majority of people as they are too engrossed in the latest fad (or gossip or drugs) to care about moving society forward in a positive direction with an invention.  If they do invent something, the first thing that they think of is "How much money can I personally make from it?", not "What can this do for society?".  Nikola Tesla was a prolific inventor and he was in it for the good of humanity.  Unfortunately, some people took advantage of his work (and made their money that way), which he detested.  He (and Albert Einstein) were my heroes when I was growing up.  I have been an inventor since a little kid, it just comes naturally to me.  One of my nephews was like this also, but he got into drugs and that part of him is now gone. ...

As for energy production: The "hot" thermofusion process is good, but there is potential for better.  There has been a great advancement in this area, as it was done under Bose-Einstein condensation conditions with the first net gain of energy in 2014.  Basically, a 50/50 mixture of deuterium and tritium was sealed in a gold cavity and cooled to a billionth of a degree above absolute zero.  It was then hit with a cooled laser beam to induce a nuclear reaction, converting the two gases into a unstable form of helium.  This isotope quickly changed into regular helium and energy (from a converted neutron mass).  This process could be developed on a larger scale, but it will likely take twenty years or more just to work out all of the bugs to be commercially utilized.  

My personal favorite method for energy generation is annihilation (matter + anti-matter) processes.  It can be done and in our lifetimes if the right people work on it.  Unfortunately, it will not be a cheap process to develop (and contain) the required anti-matter forms.  Before someone says that this is just Star-Trek stuff, let me remind them that positrons (anti-matter electrons) are used in medical diagnostics right now.  When an electron and a positron collide, two 511 KeV X-rays are formed.  It is these X-rays (developed inside the patients body) that can be used to do the scanning.  The key to being able to make anti-matter in large quantities is to solve Einstein's great puzzle (a real, working theory of everything equation).  So far, the researchers are still struggling with the pieces just as Einstein did sixty years ago.  I have a few of the pieces put together differently than what others have done, but I am not ready to share them yet as is.  All I will say is that it explains a lot of things that are not in the textbooks...

[ws23rt]

When I was a kid my hero was Thomas Edison. that admiration faded some when I found out how much of what he got credit for came from others.

Nikola Tesla was another great thinker and was indeed not given due credit for much of what he did.

As far as personal inventions?  At around age 9 or so I took one of my sisters roller skates and nailed in to a piece of two by four. (she later forgave me). It took hours to be able to stand on it down a slope. I called it a roller skate board.

Many things have been "invented" many times.  Improving on something takes the same kind of creative thinking and marketing is another talent altogether.

[Mike DC]

 

Yes, old school inventors exist, but they are not as common as they used to be.  Remember that science and math are not things that interest the majority of people as they are too engrossed in the latest fad (or gossip or drugs) to care about moving society forward in a positive direction with an invention.  If they do invent something, the first thing that they think of is "How much money can I personally make from it?", not "What can this do for society?".  Nikola Tesla was a prolific inventor and he was in it for the good of humanity.  Unfortunately, some people took advantage of his work (and made their money that way), which he detested.  He (and Albert Einstein

Inventors would be idiotic not to be commercially motivated in this day & age.  Literally 99% of the population in the USA is struggling to hold onto their standard of living. 

Engineering-wise, we are mostly past the days of easy discoveries coming from small operations.  Money supply is one of the more important tools in the toolbox now. 

[Chad L. Magee]

Yes, old school inventors exist, but they are not as common as they used to be.  Remember that science and math are not things that interest the majority of people as they are too engrossed in the latest fad (or gossip or drugs) to care about moving society forward in a positive direction with an invention.  If they do invent something, the first thing that they think of is "How much money can I personally make from it?", not "What can this do for society?".  Nikola Tesla was a prolific inventor and he was in it for the good of humanity.  Unfortunately, some people took advantage of his work (and made their money that way), which he detested.  He (and Albert Einstein

Inventors would be idiotic not to be commercially motivated in this day & age.  Literally 99% of the population in the USA is struggling to hold onto their standard of living.  

Engineering-wise, we are mostly past the days of easy discoveries coming from small operations.  Money supply is one of the more important tools in the toolbox now.  

But, not everyone is motivated by money though.  If an inventor already has the money he/she needs, they may not be working on stuff to make money on.  They may have a goal of helping humanity in mind instead (I think that is a better overall goal).  You may judge them because they do not have the same mindset as you to make money, but they do have a purpose to what they do.  (If you want an example of one of these inventions: http://ghanahealthnest.com/2015/04/24/a-new-low-cost-x-ray-machine-for-developing-countries/  Many of these machines are going to be given to developing countries free of charge to help them deal with medical diagnosis.)  The other twist to this is that an inventor can be just interested in pursuing an advancement of technology to see it progress.  Yes, this does happen.  It could come from someone who is frustrated with something and modifies it to make it work the way that they see fit.  I know someone who does this to computers all the time.  Not all inventions come up as intended though.  Some of those "inventions" end up looking like part of an episode of the Red/Green Show....

[XH29N0G]

Talking about inventions....I happened to get a call from someone a few weeks ago asking me to look up a patent application on something that was an advance in concepts, but basically cobbled together a whole bunch of existing technologies (some invented during the manhattan project) to make something new.  My guess is that if he is successful he could end up very wealthy.  (The catch is many of the ideas have been in the ether for the last 10 years or so...)  So what do I think?  I hope he is successful.  It will be a pain in the butt if the one I am trying to get commissioned (different design - similar principle) ends up having to pay royalties or whatever they are called, but my guess is that will still be OK.   

[Mike DC]

  

But, not everyone is motivated by money though.  If an inventor already has the money he/she needs, they may not be working on stuff to make money on.

Yes, but my point is, even just "having the money he/she needs" is arguably less than 1% of the US population now.  It's only natural that it would be rarer compared to several decades ago. 

[Steve P.]

I think someone should invent grass that dogs and cats cannot stand the smell of and humans can't smell at all.

Another good invention would be to figure out a way to use trees as batteries. They certainly collect enough sunlight!!

Need more power, plant another tree!!! 

[ws23rt]

I think someone should invent grass that dogs and cats cannot stand the smell of and humans can't smell at all.

Another good invention would be to figure out a way to use trees as batteries. They certainly collect enough sunlight!!

Need more power, plant another tree!!!  

By this I presume you mean tapping into a tree and saying--hey mister tree would you mind giving up some of that energy you are getting with your leaves for your growth and give it to me for my battery charger?--- I truly am not making fun of the idea.  It is out of the box and I am the last one to dismiss it.

The trees as well as all plant and animal life have given there all to convert sunlight into what we are now using for the bulk of our power.

A large part of my work is in the papermaking industry. I see some of the inside of how it works and aside from the wood fiber in paper there is much left from a tree that is burned for power and steam for the process. This is all renewable and we don't have to wait for it to be turned into oil or coal. Some of the discharge from the process is C02 and the trees love it. (It is their oxygen).

Tree farms are a big source of this material and tree planting follows logging where that happens. A very perhaps real problem is growing and harvesting this commodity without losing it to forest fires. ---A rather (IMO) wasteful and abrupt way to return CO2 back to the baby trees. Forest fires can be caused by us or not. The fuel for the fire can be caused by us or not.

The cycling of the nutrients that feed all life don't necessarily move in a smooth flow. Much like the weather doesn't give an even temp. and wind flow.

[XH29N0G]

I know someone who a few years back was using bacteria to set up biological batteries. Kind of neat stuff, but I don't know what the limits are for amounts of energy that could be obtained.  This thread also sparked an old memory of a different kind of inventor I used to know.  He made all sorts of things - many ended up useful for the military - and were quickly classified.  He was a bit of a wild intellect (made all sorts of stuff in his garage) - but ended up with pretty high clearance.  He was extremely creative and looked at the world differently than most.  I think creativity is essential to both finding the problem and the solutions.  I sometimes wish I could do that too, but spend all of my creative energy on my car...

[sunfire69]

Here's one....don't make them different just make them last longer
http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/02/technology/make-battery-last-longer-batteriser/index.html?iid=ob_homepage_money_pool&iid=obnetwork

[Chad L. Magee]

Ten years ago while in grad school, I had to do an Original Research Proposal as part of my degree requirement.  This is a make it or break it point in grad school for many students.  At the time, you had to come up with a new idea for research, do a literature review of the materials, write a 25-30 page proposal, submit it to your research committee, give a presentation on the proposal and then defend your ideas.  You do not get to actually do hands-on research with the project, just conceptual ideas upon it.  The ORP process was a measure for how you would potentially do out on your own.  Nowdays, the ORP is based solely on your PhD research project alone, not on your unique ideas.  My proposal was on creating a lightweight, recyclable, solar powered plastic battery using only two main parts.  (Basically, you would never need to plug it into a wall charger ever.  This idea came out of frustration when I ran out of AAA batteries while using a hand held radio.)  I won't tell you what materials that I was using for this idea though, but they do exist.  Needless to say, I passed the ORP and went on to finish my PhD there.  One of the professors commented that it was the most original idea that he had ever heard of in the thirty years he was reviewing ORPs.  About three years later, I was searching the scientific literature and a research group at MIT was reporting on building a similar device (abet with more parts and different materials).  Because I used it in the ORP at a university during my education, I cannot patent it for my financial gain, as all of the profits would go to the school involved....

[ws23rt]

I know in my heart and more importantly in my instinct that there are more things to be invented than have been invented.

The thinking that we have arrived is an age old and stifling way of looking at progress. That we have arrived cheers accomplishment but does nothing to further progress.

IMO the best way forward for us is to nurture those that think on their own and ask questions.

When someone asks a question. (especially the young unspoiled mind). It is far better to say ---I don't know then to try to  impress them with something we actually know little about.

The new ones in this world really need a path of value for their journey as we did.

BTW I'm no longer one of those young unspoiled minds. Mine is and has been affected by 64 years of living in the time I am in.

The best we can do for the future for our kids and their kids is to show them where we came up short (so they don't have to live a ground hog day ) and give them something to reach for --a future--as a life path.

[Chad L. Magee]

I know in my heart and more importantly in my instinct that there are more things to be invented than have been invented.

The thinking that we have arrived is an age old and stifling way of looking at progress. That we have arrived cheers accomplishment but does nothing to further progress.

IMO the best way forward for us is to nurture those that think on their own and ask questions.

When someone asks a question. (especially the young unspoiled mind). It is far better to say ---I don't know then to try to  impress them with something we actually know little about.

The new ones in this world really need a path of value for their journey as we did.

BTW I'm no longer one of those young unspoiled minds. Mine is and has been affected by 64 years of living in the time I am in.

The best we can do for the future for our kids and their kids is to show them where we came up short (so they don't have to live a ground hog day ) and give them something to reach for --a future--as a life path.

This is the reason why I got into teaching college students.  So many of them go through high school having never fully experienced science, let alone chemistry, because they were afraid to because they think it will be hard to do.  Most likely their relatives told them that "chemistry/physics was the hardest class I ever had and I hated it".  So, naturally they think it will be the same for them.  We need to get students excited about science & mathematics at an early age before they get turned off by their relatives.  I am not saying that we should all become scientists, as that would not end well.  But, it may turn around the downward slump that we are facing on the world stage when it comes to scientific learning.  You never know who could become the next Albert Einstein or Nikola Tesla.  But, we may lose their talents to something else unless we allow them the chance to experience what science & mathematics has to offer.

Another thing that is important is the need to foster the skill of creativity.  For some, this is like pulling teeth to get them to think of something new.  However, I do see college students who are creative and imaginative, yet do not have an outlet to put their skills to work.  By showing them that the STEM fields are where you can set those free, it can become like a playground in their mind.  I have had business students who did not think much of chemistry initially become very excited when I showed them that they could use it in their field of study.  They had just thought that it would be something that they learn in a textbook and have no real application in their lives.  Wrong!  After taking one of my classes, they totally changed two of their projects around to encompass what they learned about chemistry.  The key is that the material must be taught to them in a way that engages their interests, not just read to them out of a dusty old book.