superbird power steering cooler question

[maxwellwedge]

We've kicked this topic around a bit in other threads before, and there's no single answer, other than "it depends".

>>  '69 & '70 440 B-bodies with an Axle Package of some sort (i.e. 3.54/3.55 or numerically higher gear ratio) had the PS pump cooler on their Saginaw pumps.  That should include all the wedge-engine Superbird production run.

>>  '69 Hemi B-bodies with their Federal PS pump apparently did NOT get a PS pump cooler, regardless of Axle Package selection.  I've not seen a single original/unrestored '69 Hemi that came with a cooler... they could be out there, but I haven't seen one "yet".

>>  '70 Hemi Superbirds (which are all fairly early 1970 model year builds) apparently did NOT get a PS pump cooler either, and an example of such is wingnut/Pete V.'s untouched Hemi 'Bird.

>>  At least some '70 Hemi's did get a cooler on their Federal PS pumps... as evidenced by this photo from Jim/maxwellwedge's 16,000 mile survivor E-body:





I'm open to correction on this, but so far the points above are what I've observed.

 

Yup - Seemed to be sporadic on Hemi's. My survivor 69 GTX Hemi has 4.10's and no cooler - pic attached

[hemi68charger]

...

Yup - Seemed to be sporadic on Hemi's. My survivor 69 GTX Hemi has 4.10's and no cooler - pic attached

Man, hemis got the short end of the stick !!! 

[hemigeno]

Yup - Seemed to be sporadic on Hemi's. My survivor 69 GTX Hemi has 4.10's and no cooler - pic attached

Jim - is your RT/SE a late-built car, by chance?   

[birdsandbees]

The 1970 model year started using a straight hold-down.....the one in the pic is '69 and earlier. Also in 70 the hold down nuts had a captive washer. In 69 (and earlier) they used a wing nut and a washer.

Here are some pics.....  http://www.moparaction.com/Article/JIMS_BIRD/index.html

I have attached a small pic as well.

Thanks... mine is using a straight hold down bar, it's the tray in question. My car was built in Nov 1969 and wonder if they were using '69 left over stock or more likely someone grabbed a replacement tray when redoing my left fender damage. Curious if any others have this tray, with the detent, on a bird. If not I'll source a new one as mine is a little acid eating anyhow.

BTW.. link won't work for me. Thanks.

[70 sublime]

The 1970 model year started using a straight hold-down.....the one in the pic is '69 and earlier. Also in 70 the hold down nuts had a captive washer. In 69 (and earlier) they used a wing nut and a washer.

Here are some pics.....  http://www.moparaction.com/Article/JIMS_BIRD/index.html

I have attached a small pic as well.

Thanks... mine is using a straight hold down bar, it's the tray in question. My car was built in Nov 1969 and wonder if they were using '69 left over stock or more likely someone grabbed a replacement tray when redoing my left fender damage. Curious if any others have this tray, with the detent, on a bird. If not I'll source a new one as mine is a little acid eating anyhow.

BTW.. link won't work for me. Thanks.

The 70 battery tray is a little longer and has a bolt at the front into the pannel under the rad support where 68 and 69 only sat on top of the inner frame rail

[birdsandbees]

Thanks.. ordered a full kit. New tray, bracket, hold down and bolts.

[maxwellwedge]

Yup - Seemed to be sporadic on Hemi's. My survivor 69 GTX Hemi has 4.10's and no cooler - pic attached

Jim - is your RT/SE a late-built car, by chance?   

It was a mid-December car Geno. Maybe a lot of Hemi's didn't need the cooler because a lot of the accessories (Alt, PS) were under-driven with the unique Hemi pulley setup?

[hemigeno]

Yup - Seemed to be sporadic on Hemi's. My survivor 69 GTX Hemi has 4.10's and no cooler - pic attached

Jim - is your RT/SE a late-built car, by chance?   

It was a mid-December car Geno. Maybe a lot of Hemi's didn't need the cooler because a lot of the accessories (Alt, PS) were under-driven with the unique Hemi pulley setup?

Follow-up question for you, Jimbo... (I'm good at those, aren't I??  )  Is the PS pulley diameter on the RT/SE the same as your '69 GTX?  Seems like I saw a photo where they used a 3-spoke pulley on a 1970 Federal pump with a cooler (AAR or T/A, perhaps??), which is at least different in appearance than the solid-center '69 Hemi pulley.  Maybe that's when they used an external cooler - when the PS pump is no longer under-driven?

Always more to learn!

[maxwellwedge]

Here is a pic of my 70 T/A. Yes - The Hemi used a solid pulley....Looks like the same one from at least 69-71.....the others (non-Hemi) had the spokes. I guess (think, wonder) since the (later) Hemi's used a unique diameter w/pump and crank pulley....the other stuff got under-driven and didn't need the cooler?

[hemigeno]

Here is a pic of my 70 T/A. Yes - The Hemi used a solid pulley....Looks like the same one from at least 69-71.....the others (non-Hemi) had the spokes. I guess (think, wonder) since the (later) Hemi's used a unique diameter w/pump and crank pulley....the other stuff got under-driven and didn't need the cooler?

Ooohh... didn't think about the other end of the pulley equation, but that would be a factor too.   

[maxwellwedge]

The 1970 model year started using a straight hold-down.....the one in the pic is '69 and earlier. Also in 70 the hold down nuts had a captive washer. In 69 (and earlier) they used a wing nut and a washer.

Here are some pics.....  http://www.moparaction.com/Article/JIMS_BIRD/index.html

I have attached a small pic as well.

Thanks... mine is using a straight hold down bar, it's the tray in question. My car was built in Nov 1969 and wonder if they were using '69 left over stock or more likely someone grabbed a replacement tray when redoing my left fender damage. Curious if any others have this tray, with the detent, on a bird. If not I'll source a new one as mine is a little acid eating anyhow.

BTW.. link won't work for me. Thanks.

Link is working again....looks like the site was partially down for maintenance for a day or 2.

[maxwellwedge]

Here is a pic of my 70 T/A. Yes - The Hemi used a solid pulley....Looks like the same one from at least 69-71.....the others (non-Hemi) had the spokes. I guess (think, wonder) since the (later) Hemi's used a unique diameter w/pump and crank pulley....the other stuff got under-driven and didn't need the cooler?

Ooohh... didn't think about the other end of the pulley equation, but that would be a factor too.   

Not sure if that's the answer.....but it is logical...

[thehemikid]

wow. Everyones pics are amazing!. Its nice to learn these things. It looks like I have the correct cooler. So do they really actualy make a big difference? r

I see your last question hasn't been answered yet.  I myself don't have a simple answer for that.  The only crazy thing that came to mine was to add a Y valve for a test. One way goes through the cooler other bypasses it, checking the reservoir fluid temps. Maybe there's an easier way. 

[maxwellwedge]

I've been reading here for a long time, but thought I should join so I could add a picture of the cooler. I've only owned this Texas car for 26 years, as the 4th owner, but assume this to be the cooler that came on the car. 440 -4bl x auto car w/ 3.55 axle package.

If you want a better picture down in.. just let me know.

Not liking the negative cable mounted to the exhaust manifold....that could cause problems later.

[birdsandbees]

Has never caused any problems in the few thousand miles it's been driven all those years. Was the cable length and placement when I got the car, but have no fear I ordered the proper reproduction of both the + and - cables last week! 

[maxwellwedge]

Good stuff! Negative cable gets mounted on intake, under throttle return spring bracket.

[birdsandbees]

Yep.. I know where it belongs, just didn't have the cable length to get there. Not the first time that's happened to me. 

[maxwellwedge]

Haha!

[hemi71x]

Owned a 71 Hemi GTX, 4 speed car, for 28 years.
No need for a "dent" in the battery tray.
Plenty of room with a cooler on the pump.