superbird power steering cooler question

[DoubleDlover]

ok so. one... did a superbird ever come with a power steering cooler? And 2. If so. Did they ALL have them? Or was that an option?? thanks r

[hemi68charger]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but because they all either came with 3.55's or 3.54 Dana's, then by default they came with the coolers. Cars equipped with a 3.23 didn't.. Axle package cars came with the cooler as part of the package....

[Redbird]

I believe they all came with coolers, and I also believe what they came with is shown on the Broadcast sheet.

[Wingnut426]

My HEMI Superbird does NOT have a cooler.  Hemi Superbirds come with a Federal pump, not a Saginaw. 

[hemi68charger]

My HEMI Superbird does NOT have a cooler.  Hemi Superbirds come with a Federal pump, not a Saginaw. 

Pete, even with the Federal, they didn't have coolers?

[Wingnut426]

I have looked at MANY Hemi Superbird engine compartment photos and I have never seen one.  The GURU GG has stated that they should have the cooler, but I haven't seen any.
If someone can provide a picture of one ON A SUPERBIRD, I may think differently.

[hemi68charger]

I have looked at MANY Hemi Superbird engine compartment photos and I have never seen one.  The GURU GG has stated that they should have the cooler, but I haven't seen any.
If someone can provide a picture of one ON A SUPERBIRD, I may think differently.

Observation is a very powerful supplier of the truth.... In theory, probably should have gotten them, but the reality of production is different...

[DoubleDlover]

ok so if you have a bird with a Saginaw pump it should have the cooler? r

[thehemikid]

I believe they all came with coolers, and I also believe what they came with is shown on the Broadcast sheet.

Where at?

[hemi68charger]

I believe they all came with coolers, and I also believe what they came with is shown on the Broadcast sheet.

Where at?

I'm not sure there was a code for the cooler part of the power steering... Either it came with power steering or not and coded thus ( in general terms, not Superbird-specific).. If I'm wrong, anyone have the broadcast sheet that reflects the individual cooler part?

[boss429kiwi]

My Superbird 440/6, 4 speed has the power steering cooler.

Gary

[thehemikid]

I believe they all came with coolers, and I also believe what they came with is shown on the Broadcast sheet.

Where at?

I'm not sure there was a code for the cooler part of the power steering... Either it came with power steering or not and coded thus.. If I'm wrong, anyone have the broadcast sheet that reflects the individual cooler part?

I think the cooler is linked in the Performance, Track, or Super Track package's but looking at Cunningham's (sp) site & WW's site I didn't find it.

I was just asking that if the cooler itself was listed on the BC sheet, where? cause I wasn't seeing it. That section of BC sheet is from a Bird, don't know who's though.

The Hemi Bird's without coolers running the Federal pump is a bit puzzling to me. Would it have anything to do with the differences in pump volumes between the Fed & the Sag

[DoubleDlover]

well its starting to get interesting that's a good thing.. So.. does anyone have a pic of there 383 or 440 with a P/S pump cooler?? either style pump?  that would be wonderfull!! r

[6bblgt]

paperwork and/or documentation on power steering cooler usage is difficult or impossible to find, what I've seen:

1970
383HP, 440HP, 440+6 with power steering used a Saginaw pump - they also used a cooler with A31 (383), A32 (440s), A33 (440s), A34 (440s), & A36 axle packages.

340 (4bbl & 6bbl) and HEMI engines with power steering used a Federal pump - they also used a cooler with A31 (340), A32 (HEMI), A33 (HEMI), A34 (HEMI), & A36 axle packages.

Power steering was included with all Superbirds and they are equipped with A33 (4-speed) or A36 (auto) axle packages & should have a power steering cooler, BUT

I've seen a number of original appearing October/November '69 HEMI cars without a power steering cooler on cars that should have one .....  shortage?  Maybe the 3.54 cars didn't start getting a cooler until later in the year?  Too much time has passed, too many changes have been made to get concrete answers to some of these questions.

[DoubleDlover]

yea you might be right. Anything could happen on any giving day at the plant.  So does anyone have any pics of the cooler for a Saginaw pump? So we know what the correct shape on the bracket is. And the shape of the line ect.. thanks r

[thehemikid]

I'll provide some pics & let the experts chime in and correct me where I'm  wrong,  but I think this is the cooler for the 70 Saginaw pump. I think these pics are from Glen Rays site.










I think the original hose would look like this with the smother crimps and a sleeve on the hose roughly mid way.



Another angle of the hose,...though I think this is an after market hose by the crimps,...I could be wrong.



Mine where I 1st bolted it up to see if it would fit on a Hemi. Afterwords I was told it wouldn't fit & I said it fits like it was supposed to be there. A tad close to the core plug boss on the front of the head but doesn't touch.


My conglomeration just before I installed the motor. Don't let the negative battery cable,  positive battery cable, or temporary external oil line, distract you.

[billssuperbird]

I have a clone and I put a cooler on mine. Every bird I ever looked at had that cooler on it I hope that helps 

[birdsandbees]

I've been reading here for a long time, but thought I should join so I could add a picture of the cooler. I've only owned this Texas car for 26 years, as the 4th owner, but assume this to be the cooler that came on the car. 440 -4bl x auto car w/ 3.55 axle package.

If you want a better picture down in.. just let me know.

[6bblgt]

 

[hemi68charger]

I think we all agree all 440 4bbl and 440 6bbl versions came with the coolers by default; but the underlying mystery is the 426 Hemi equipped cars. As we all know, they came with Federal pumps and it looks like without the cooler. But, for me personally, it doesn't make sense since the Federal pumps on T/A's and AAR's came with coolers.....

[DoubleDlover]

wow. Everyones pics are amazing!. Its nice to learn these things. It looks like I have the correct cooler. So do they really actualy make a big difference? r

[thehemikid]

I've been reading here for a long time, but thought I should join so I could add a picture of the cooler. I've only owned this Texas car for 26 years, as the 4th owner, but assume this to be the cooler that came on the car. 440 -4bl x auto car w/ 3.55 axle package.

If you want a better picture down in.. just let me know.

Interesting notch you have there in your battery tray. Something I haven't noticed before on a Bird. Out of sight, out of mind I guess. But appears to work with the cooler for a little room for clearance maybe for belt stretch/adjustment? Or maybe install/removal?

[hemigeno]

We've kicked this topic around a bit in other threads before, and there's no single answer, other than "it depends".

>>  '69 & '70 440 B-bodies with an Axle Package of some sort (i.e. 3.54/3.55 or numerically higher gear ratio) had the PS pump cooler on their Saginaw pumps.  That should include all the wedge-engine Superbird production run.

>>  '69 Hemi B-bodies with their Federal PS pump apparently did NOT get a PS pump cooler, regardless of Axle Package selection.  I've not seen a single original/unrestored '69 Hemi that came with a cooler... they could be out there, but I haven't seen one "yet".

>>  '70 Hemi Superbirds (which are all fairly early 1970 model year builds) apparently did NOT get a PS pump cooler either, and an example of such is wingnut/Pete V.'s untouched Hemi 'Bird.

>>  At least some '70 Hemi's did get a cooler on their Federal PS pumps... as evidenced by this photo from Jim/maxwellwedge's 16,000 mile survivor E-body:





I'm open to correction on this, but so far the points above are what I've observed.

 

[birdsandbees]

Interesting notch you have there in your battery tray. Something I haven't noticed before on a Bird. Out of sight, out of mind I guess. But appears to work with the cooler for a little room for clearance maybe for belt stretch/adjustment? Or maybe install/removal?

Now you've had me searching for pictures all day.. lol. I only found one replacement tray identical at Jack's, but his site doesn't list enough detail to say what it should be for. With my car hit on the left, this could have been a donor tray from something else. Anyone have insight, that has an original 'bird?

[maxwellwedge]

The 1970 model year started using a straight hold-down.....the one in the pic is '69 and earlier. Also in 70 the hold down nuts had a captive washer. In 69 (and earlier) they used a wing nut and a washer.

Here are some pics.....  http://www.moparaction.com/Article/JIMS_BIRD/index.html

I have attached a small pic as well.

[maxwellwedge]

We've kicked this topic around a bit in other threads before, and there's no single answer, other than "it depends".

>>  '69 & '70 440 B-bodies with an Axle Package of some sort (i.e. 3.54/3.55 or numerically higher gear ratio) had the PS pump cooler on their Saginaw pumps.  That should include all the wedge-engine Superbird production run.

>>  '69 Hemi B-bodies with their Federal PS pump apparently did NOT get a PS pump cooler, regardless of Axle Package selection.  I've not seen a single original/unrestored '69 Hemi that came with a cooler... they could be out there, but I haven't seen one "yet".

>>  '70 Hemi Superbirds (which are all fairly early 1970 model year builds) apparently did NOT get a PS pump cooler either, and an example of such is wingnut/Pete V.'s untouched Hemi 'Bird.

>>  At least some '70 Hemi's did get a cooler on their Federal PS pumps... as evidenced by this photo from Jim/maxwellwedge's 16,000 mile survivor E-body:





I'm open to correction on this, but so far the points above are what I've observed.

 

Yup - Seemed to be sporadic on Hemi's. My survivor 69 GTX Hemi has 4.10's and no cooler - pic attached

[hemi68charger]

...

Yup - Seemed to be sporadic on Hemi's. My survivor 69 GTX Hemi has 4.10's and no cooler - pic attached

Man, hemis got the short end of the stick !!! 

[hemigeno]

Yup - Seemed to be sporadic on Hemi's. My survivor 69 GTX Hemi has 4.10's and no cooler - pic attached

Jim - is your RT/SE a late-built car, by chance?   

[birdsandbees]

The 1970 model year started using a straight hold-down.....the one in the pic is '69 and earlier. Also in 70 the hold down nuts had a captive washer. In 69 (and earlier) they used a wing nut and a washer.

Here are some pics.....  http://www.moparaction.com/Article/JIMS_BIRD/index.html

I have attached a small pic as well.

Thanks... mine is using a straight hold down bar, it's the tray in question. My car was built in Nov 1969 and wonder if they were using '69 left over stock or more likely someone grabbed a replacement tray when redoing my left fender damage. Curious if any others have this tray, with the detent, on a bird. If not I'll source a new one as mine is a little acid eating anyhow.

BTW.. link won't work for me. Thanks.

[70 sublime]

The 1970 model year started using a straight hold-down.....the one in the pic is '69 and earlier. Also in 70 the hold down nuts had a captive washer. In 69 (and earlier) they used a wing nut and a washer.

Here are some pics.....  http://www.moparaction.com/Article/JIMS_BIRD/index.html

I have attached a small pic as well.

Thanks... mine is using a straight hold down bar, it's the tray in question. My car was built in Nov 1969 and wonder if they were using '69 left over stock or more likely someone grabbed a replacement tray when redoing my left fender damage. Curious if any others have this tray, with the detent, on a bird. If not I'll source a new one as mine is a little acid eating anyhow.

BTW.. link won't work for me. Thanks.

The 70 battery tray is a little longer and has a bolt at the front into the pannel under the rad support where 68 and 69 only sat on top of the inner frame rail

[birdsandbees]

Thanks.. ordered a full kit. New tray, bracket, hold down and bolts.

[maxwellwedge]

Yup - Seemed to be sporadic on Hemi's. My survivor 69 GTX Hemi has 4.10's and no cooler - pic attached

Jim - is your RT/SE a late-built car, by chance?   

It was a mid-December car Geno. Maybe a lot of Hemi's didn't need the cooler because a lot of the accessories (Alt, PS) were under-driven with the unique Hemi pulley setup?

[hemigeno]

Yup - Seemed to be sporadic on Hemi's. My survivor 69 GTX Hemi has 4.10's and no cooler - pic attached

Jim - is your RT/SE a late-built car, by chance?   

It was a mid-December car Geno. Maybe a lot of Hemi's didn't need the cooler because a lot of the accessories (Alt, PS) were under-driven with the unique Hemi pulley setup?

Follow-up question for you, Jimbo... (I'm good at those, aren't I??  )  Is the PS pulley diameter on the RT/SE the same as your '69 GTX?  Seems like I saw a photo where they used a 3-spoke pulley on a 1970 Federal pump with a cooler (AAR or T/A, perhaps??), which is at least different in appearance than the solid-center '69 Hemi pulley.  Maybe that's when they used an external cooler - when the PS pump is no longer under-driven?

Always more to learn!

[maxwellwedge]

Here is a pic of my 70 T/A. Yes - The Hemi used a solid pulley....Looks like the same one from at least 69-71.....the others (non-Hemi) had the spokes. I guess (think, wonder) since the (later) Hemi's used a unique diameter w/pump and crank pulley....the other stuff got under-driven and didn't need the cooler?

[hemigeno]

Here is a pic of my 70 T/A. Yes - The Hemi used a solid pulley....Looks like the same one from at least 69-71.....the others (non-Hemi) had the spokes. I guess (think, wonder) since the (later) Hemi's used a unique diameter w/pump and crank pulley....the other stuff got under-driven and didn't need the cooler?

Ooohh... didn't think about the other end of the pulley equation, but that would be a factor too.   

[maxwellwedge]

The 1970 model year started using a straight hold-down.....the one in the pic is '69 and earlier. Also in 70 the hold down nuts had a captive washer. In 69 (and earlier) they used a wing nut and a washer.

Here are some pics.....  http://www.moparaction.com/Article/JIMS_BIRD/index.html

I have attached a small pic as well.

Thanks... mine is using a straight hold down bar, it's the tray in question. My car was built in Nov 1969 and wonder if they were using '69 left over stock or more likely someone grabbed a replacement tray when redoing my left fender damage. Curious if any others have this tray, with the detent, on a bird. If not I'll source a new one as mine is a little acid eating anyhow.

BTW.. link won't work for me. Thanks.

Link is working again....looks like the site was partially down for maintenance for a day or 2.

[maxwellwedge]

Here is a pic of my 70 T/A. Yes - The Hemi used a solid pulley....Looks like the same one from at least 69-71.....the others (non-Hemi) had the spokes. I guess (think, wonder) since the (later) Hemi's used a unique diameter w/pump and crank pulley....the other stuff got under-driven and didn't need the cooler?

Ooohh... didn't think about the other end of the pulley equation, but that would be a factor too.   

Not sure if that's the answer.....but it is logical...

[thehemikid]

wow. Everyones pics are amazing!. Its nice to learn these things. It looks like I have the correct cooler. So do they really actualy make a big difference? r

I see your last question hasn't been answered yet.  I myself don't have a simple answer for that.  The only crazy thing that came to mine was to add a Y valve for a test. One way goes through the cooler other bypasses it, checking the reservoir fluid temps. Maybe there's an easier way. 

[maxwellwedge]

I've been reading here for a long time, but thought I should join so I could add a picture of the cooler. I've only owned this Texas car for 26 years, as the 4th owner, but assume this to be the cooler that came on the car. 440 -4bl x auto car w/ 3.55 axle package.

If you want a better picture down in.. just let me know.

Not liking the negative cable mounted to the exhaust manifold....that could cause problems later.

[birdsandbees]

Has never caused any problems in the few thousand miles it's been driven all those years. Was the cable length and placement when I got the car, but have no fear I ordered the proper reproduction of both the + and - cables last week! 

[maxwellwedge]

Good stuff! Negative cable gets mounted on intake, under throttle return spring bracket.

[birdsandbees]

Yep.. I know where it belongs, just didn't have the cable length to get there. Not the first time that's happened to me. 

[maxwellwedge]

Haha!

[hemi71x]

Owned a 71 Hemi GTX, 4 speed car, for 28 years.
No need for a "dent" in the battery tray.
Plenty of room with a cooler on the pump.