Chrysler corporation selling to GM?

[taxspeaker]

Yesterday's Wall STreet Journal had a follow up on this article from 2 weeks ago that makes it sound like the GM deal is back on.
http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1098454_fiat-chryslers-sergio-marchionne-wanted-to-merge-with-gm-but-got-shot-down-by-mary-barra

[stripedelete]

I was reading about a speech he gave to some group, where he said they would have to partner to make it.
Which, interestingly, is what was said immediately following the Chrysler - Diamler "merger".

His basic drivetrain philosophy is interesting.  When it comes to 4 cyl econo engines no one cares what's under the hood, so why not everyone use the same one.

I think he's a little ahead of his time - but not much.

[Mike DC]

   
If they merged GM & Mopar, it would produce one single mega-company with a dozen brands . . .

  . . . and a few years later after the dust settles . . .  they would decide they have about 4-5 brands too many.


Mopar hasn't been able to survive for very long on its own for decades.  There's a reason for that.  The whole industry has too many brands, period.  Everyone's math would look better if they had fewer competitors.  EVERYONE would be a little more profitable, there would be fewer redundant boring commuter cars, and the remaining brands would have more room for the fun stuff that Mopar is known for. 

[bakerhillpins]

His basic drivetrain philosophy is interesting.  When it comes to 4 cyl econo engines no one cares what's under the hood, so why not everyone use the same one.

I think he's a little ahead of his time - but not much.

Well, as much as I might agree with this from a manufacturability and a "nobody cares" standpoint I think it's not the silver bullet it sounds like. As far as I am concerned the only thing that drives innovation, reliability, and the economy is open competition and you don't get that with monster corporations and monolithic product offerings.   

[ODZKing]

I agree with Baker.  And it doesn't just pertain to the auto industry but many. Broadcasting has gotten completely out of hand.  These big companies own 7 or 8 stations in one market and their attitude is , they have to watch or listen to one of them so why spend money on good programming. Lets run 30 minute paid advertising or commercials and fill with music.
Being in the industry it is sad to see what has happened. I'm sure automotive people who have spend time trying to build a brand and a quality product feel the same way.
I don't think I want to drive the same thing as everyone else, but that is me.

[Ghoste]

They thought it was a good idea at GM to have a corporate drivetrain and lost a few Pontiac, Buick and Olds diehards with that idea.  Badge engineering did marvelous things for Plymouth sales, Mercury sales, Pontiac and Oldsmobile so yeah, great idea.   

[Mike DC]

   
IMO "badge engineering" really became a problem when it applied to the bodies & interiors & option lists.  Two cars sharing a motor isn't the same issue. 

[Paul G]

It will hurt both company's in my opinion. What are they going to do with two truck brands, both being very good products. Compete against themselves? Same goes for every model in both brands line ups, except Jeep. I cant see GM buying the entire brand just for jeep. The merger makes no sense.

[tan top]

 wonder if the  aftermarket  mopar parts , crate motors  , blocks  heads  etc will be as cheap as GM stuff if this happens  

[myk]

Yeah maybe, until GM finishes bleeding off what's left of the brand and then killing most of the Mopar products off.

The merger makes no sense, unless GM's just trying to squeeze money from the merger and then dump the non-essentials when the time is right...

[Ghoste]

It isn't GM buying Chrysler, it's Fiat buying GM and adding them to the mix.  I would imagine both domestics will see a Fiatization in drivetrain and styling before many years.  Chevrolet, Cadillac, Chrysler?, Ram?, Jeep and Dodge may survive as brands but global vehicle platforms could well be in the future.

[stripedelete]

  Chevrolet, Cadillac, Chrysler?, Ram?, Jeep and Dodge may survive as brands but global vehicle platforms could well be in the future.

That's the thing, except for Jeep and little Fiats, it has too many redundancies.

Honda is a better choice, but then the whole Fiat line is redundant.

How about Jeep, Ram, Harley? Or Jeep, Ram, IH?  I guess that ship has sailed.  It probably would not have provided necessary economy of scale anyway.

[rt green]

so........it'll be GM =General Mopar?   I don't know if I could take that.

[ws23rt]

The names --Chevrolet, Cadillac, Chrysler, Plymouth, Dodge, and even Ford's   with their recognizable names mean something real and valuable to those that lived in days past.

What made those names in those days and what I remember is not what they are today. As an example is the current charger. It is a nice car by many measures but brings little or nothing from the ones we know as chargers. The current Challenger is a bit of an exception because it does bring back (in style) much of what it was as a name.

When the ownership/leadership of a corporation changes hands it doesn't necessarily mean a change in the product. When leadership within a company changes hands it's not much different.

We are looking through a cloudy window when trying to understand what  the current or tomorrows owners of a corporation have in mind for the car making ability they buy/absorb.

I don't worry about the freeways being flooded with Fiat's (for example) because the buying public will tell that tale. If GM becomes part of Fiat and they make a car called a Camaro it will sell if the public want's it. If they chose to use the name "Camaro" for a car it will be a marketing decision.

I do miss the days when I looked forward to the model change for a particular brand. The buyers today have a different product to buy and different reasons for their choices.

[Mike DC]

              
I pointed out above that if GM swallowed Mopar then it would soon decide it had too many brands.  

I wasn't meaning this as a GM problem.  I was meaning this as a problem for pretty much any corp that swallows Mopar.  Nobody wants to swallow Mopar because nobody needs more brands.  The whole industry's balance sheet would look better if a bunch of brands worldwide simply disappeared.  



The point is not that Mopar doesn't contribute anything worthwhile.  The point is that those contributions (and sales, and jobs, etc) could be going to other healthier brands instead.  

When there are too many brands it forces everyone to focus on the highest earning models at the expense of the rest.  We get a world full of companies all making redundant copies of econoboxes.  Nobody has enough money/resources left over for the fun & oddball stuff.  And in spite of all these compromises the companies still struggle to make money & keep providing the jobs.

[ws23rt]

             
I pointed out above that if GM swallowed Mopar then it would soon decide it had too many brands.  

I wasn't meaning this as a GM problem.  I was meaning this as a problem for pretty much any corp that swallows Mopar.  Nobody wants to swallow Mopar because nobody needs more brands.  The whole industry's balance sheet would look better if a bunch of brands worldwide simply disappeared.  



The point is not that Mopar doesn't contribute anything worthwhile.  The point is that those contributions (and sales, and jobs, etc) could be going to other healthier brands instead.  

When there are too many brands it forces everyone to focus on the highest earning models at the expense of the rest.  We get a world full of companies all making redundant copies of econoboxes.  Nobody has enough money/resources left over for the fun & oddball stuff.  And in spite of all these compromises the companies still struggle to make money & keep providing the jobs.

I agree.    The decision makers in the new company's are going to build what they think the public will buy. They have a task that can be risky (if they chose to stray from the norm) or they can stamp out what most people need/want.--reliable transport.--- The market for those of us that enjoy the coolness of cool cars (mass produced) is not big enough to invest in it in a big way.
However I am encouraged by the public's enthusiasm for the hellcat challenger and charger. It shows a real market is out there for a product that pushes the norm if the price can be reached.

[VegasCharger]

so........it'll be GM =General Mopar?   I don't know if I could take that.

Along time ago I said to myself, GM = Get Mopar.

I'm not saying for sure if I made that up at that time in entered my brain, but I never heard anyone say it before or when I ask people if they have ever heard it before and they always replied "no".

[ODZKing]

I've been a loyal Mopar guy since day 1. Even my daily cars have been Mopars over the years. But I have to say I have owned 3 Mitsu/Mopars, 2 Avengers and a Stratus RT. And my son had a Eagle Talon. And they were and have been dependable transportation, especially the RT bought new in 2003. Still going strong.
The one thing that would make me change allegiance is being under the GM umbrella. If that were the case I believe it would be Mitsubishi for me as I think Diamond Star has a great product.

[Ghoste]

To me it doesn't read like GM is buying Mopar though, it sounds like Fiat wanted a merger but GM aren't interested?  Is there a different article I'm missing?

[freddyd02]

Seems like the FIAT guy is just fishing for someone to merge with, he even tried Volkswagen. GM said no way. I wouldn't worry to much about it.

[Ghoste]

Yeah thats what i thought, this isn't GM trying to buy Chrysler.   

[LaOtto70Charger]

I agree GM isn't trying to buy Mopar.  I can see what the FIAT guy is thinking.  The costs to develop new powertrains and computer can be huge.  Especially when it seems to be for only a couple of years.  Billions in capital must be interesting to deal with.  Than add up how few cars you can use it in the developed world while trying to break into the China and India markets.  Who are trying to copy what they make you for in their own companies.  Oh joy.

[Ghoste]

It kind of makes you think sometimes the enviro crowd have nothing to worry about, it almost seems like the evil auto industry is doomed to make itself extinct.

[Mike DC]

           
A major multi-brand auto corporation is saying it cannot afford to develop new drivetrains for its bread & butter vehicle lines.  This is a roundabout way of saying they cannot stay in business. 

[redmist]

Ugh.... To big to fail round three?