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A little help please. starting a 440 after lengthy storage

Started by Lord Warlock, June 07, 2015, 06:33:29 PM

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Lord Warlock

For the past month or so, I've been putting off starting the charger because it was blocked in and couldn't get it out of the backyard garage, so last week I managed to hand crank a winch to pull a car out of the way and into the spare stall of the garage next to the charger, and this weekend decided I'd try to start it again after a year of sitting.  Car ran before I took the top of the engine apart to detail it, put it all back together, put a new wiring harness from firewall to alternator/horns, put all new plug wires in and .....nothing.  no fire at all.  First thought it was the coil, but checked connections with threads here and went back and charged battery and started cranking it today, not frozen up, but I'm getting no fire at all.  Either the wiring harness is wrongly installed (hard to do) the distributor is installed wrong or is just turned too far so it is firing wrong, hold down bolt is just snug enough so engine turns without turning the distributor. 

My 69 has a stock looking coil, plug wires are new but all are hooked up using the diagram in Chiltons auto manual for firing order, but I'm not sure where the vacuum advance on the distributor should be pointed at, thought it used to be around 12:30 position, but that isn't working, so It looks like I'll be re-connecting coil and distributor plug wires.  The distributor turns far enough so I could be one or two cylinders out of time, used to be able to figure it out, now I have to rely on experts online and see what they suggest. 

If the wiring harness isn't working, how would I tell? it looks like its hooked to the ballast resistor and other connections on firewall just fine, but when I attempt to honk the horn, neither horn makes a noise, which tells me they aren't getting power or ground correctly, either way something may be hokey with the wiring harness connections.  Thought it was fairly straight forward to hook up the engine harness, only have a green wire near the alternator that isn't plugged in anywhere, spade connector on alternator is too big for the spade connector of the plug.  If all else fails, I can always put the original harness back on, I did save it and hung it on the wall just in case, until I could verify the new harness is good.  Looked great...but function? don't know. 

Is there a checklist people use on their cars that they've stored to get them to run again?  I'm open to suggestions. 
69 RT/SE Y3 cream yellow w/tan vinyl top and black r/t stripe. non matching 440/375, 3:23, Column shift auto w/buddy seat, tan interior, am/fm w/fr to back fade, Now wears 17" magnum 500 rims and Nitto tires. Fresh repaint, new interior, new wheels and tires.

XH29N0G

Others will probably help more, but I will tell you what I would try.  Regarding the harness, do you have a good wiring diagram (like in the factory service manual) because that helps me trace out various wires.  Then I can use a multimeter (either as an ohm meter or as a voltmeter) to do various tests of continuity or if there is a potential being sent where it is supposed to.  (I needed to do this to trouble shoot an issue I recently had with the key switch on my car, and could tell that I was not getting power to the ignition when the key was on, but was when it was in run position.).

Next, as far as timing is concerned, you probably can figure out top dead center by the timing mark on the damper and by looking at the distributor.  I do not know if you have to do the full test with the finger on the #1 plug opening, but my guess is that you do not because the distributor will point 180 degrees out for one position and to TDC for another.  You then might be able to rotate the distributor so it is set up pretty close to firing on the #1.  As far as spark is concerned, you should be able to see it with a grounded plug that is plugged into one of the plug boots.  I don't know what else to suggest.  Others on here (probably you) know more about many of these things than me.

Make sure you have gas going in.  I had an empty tank foil me once.  I also had a bad accelerator pump foil me. 

Good luck with it.
Who in their right mind would say

"The science should not stand in the way of this."? 

Science is just observation and hypothesis.  Policy stands in the way.........

Or maybe it protects us. 

I suppose it depends on the specific case.....

RallyeMike

I'm assuming it is at least turning over by the key:

1. Turn it over for 7-8 seconds, remove the air cleaner, blip the throttle and look down the carb to make sue you have fuel. No fuel - Check tank, pump, filter, and then carb.
2. Check for voltage at the coil with key in start and on position. No voltage - Check ballast resistor, coil, and wiring.
3. Unplug one spark plug wire, insert a spark plug and hold it close too something metal. Turn over the car. Do you see spark?
4. Set TDC: Remove #1 spark plug and turn over engine with your finger in the hole. When your finger get pushed out with air, you are near TDC. Look at the dampner, and rotate it back or forward so you are lined up on TDC. Set distributor so that the rotor points at the #1 wire  location on the cap. Wire accordingly - make sure you have the rotation in the right way.






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Lord Warlock

distributor position looks to be same as other engine pictures on the site, vacuum advance points to 12:30 to 1:00 position so it should be in correct position, verified all wires based on that position and they are all good.  I am a little concerned that the harness isn't getting power or spark. it will give me something fun to do all week tracking this down, now there isn't an excuse not to start it, so will figure it out.  Don't have an ohmmeter or multi tool...yet...hoped to old school it first.

Finding TDC on plug 1 isn't too hard, a lot easier with two heads than just one, we used to use a short thick wire in the spark plug hole.  I haven't looked at the damper in years, not sure if it even has a visible mark still, it did at one time. I only doubt the harness because it was all new, and car hasn't run yet with the new harness on, it ran with the old harness, which would suggest that the voltage regulator and ballast were still ok, carburetor worked ok before, although had to gravity feed fuel direct to the carb, now I'm trying to get the engine to start and suck fuel from tank through new fuel lines, if have to will bypass fuel lines though, but have to get it to fire or try to start first.

Some good suggestions, will try them out this week.  I did get an arc of spark from the alternator to one of the spark plug wires that got too close this suggests to me that battery power is getting to the alternator,not sure about the coil yet, the plug wires are braided steel covered so need to be grounded.  I should verify the fuses are all ok just to be sure.  Also need to put a different terminal on the positive battery cable, the one I installed last week doesn't hold the wires tight enough, looked good but found out the wires could be pulled out manually so will rework those tomorrow afternoon, have the new terminals just in case. 
69 RT/SE Y3 cream yellow w/tan vinyl top and black r/t stripe. non matching 440/375, 3:23, Column shift auto w/buddy seat, tan interior, am/fm w/fr to back fade, Now wears 17" magnum 500 rims and Nitto tires. Fresh repaint, new interior, new wheels and tires.

six-tee-nine

No spark has nothing to do with the ignition sequence.

So even if you put the plug wires on competely wrong the plug should still show a spark albeit at the wrong time.
New wires and plugs kinda eliminates the fact of them being faulty.

I suggest you work your way trough the wiring again. go from battery to ign system. Best way to do so is with an electrical diagram.

On a side note, make sure your engine block has a good ground, check the block/firewall connection.
Only after you manage the plugs to spark then you can start worrying about fuel and ign sequence
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Lord Warlock

think the ground to the firewall may need a little help, I repainted the firewall and unhooked it to paint, never ground off the paint under it when reinstalled, probably should do that. 

What is the green wire with a connector on the end near the alternator for? was thinking it may be for the AC connection but the stock AC wire was a separate wire on the original harness.
69 RT/SE Y3 cream yellow w/tan vinyl top and black r/t stripe. non matching 440/375, 3:23, Column shift auto w/buddy seat, tan interior, am/fm w/fr to back fade, Now wears 17" magnum 500 rims and Nitto tires. Fresh repaint, new interior, new wheels and tires.