roadrace / drift street charger build

[Ponch ®]

I see both points here. Perhaps, if you've got the tools, equipment and suppliers to build a custom suspension and brakes cheaply you're way ahead of the rest of us. If you were spending $75k I could see the Hemi *cost* argument being pointless. If you have $15k (for example) in the whole car then the cheaper engine is a MUCH bigger factor in the decision. However, you also have an R5 which would not only be wicked in this car but it removes the stigma of an off-brand transplant. Again, most people won't have those options. I think it will be cool either way but one of the attractions to Mopar is that not everyone has one - or can build one - and they aren't everywhere. The Chevy stuff often seems like the cheap and easy way out. And for a race car, cheap and reliable is more important than "exclusive". Although, it sounds as if this is a car to have fun in and not a full blown competition vehicle.

Besides, if you go with the R5 you can ship the LS to me and I'll stick it in my Toyota pickup!

Troy

perhaps it doesn't apply to this particular build because he's doing a lot of work himself, etc...but you see it often with high end street rods and customs. "yeah, so I had to import the ostrich penis skin from Namibia at $3k per square foot for the upholstery, I had these custom unobtanium alloy wheels made because I didn't like anything on the market, and my body guy spent 3000 hours just getting the body prepped for the metal flake paint that uses actual gold from a mine where some kid lost an arm digging for it. And here's the LS motor, because theyre cheap and plentiful"

[Troy]

I see both points here. Perhaps, if you've got the tools, equipment and suppliers to build a custom suspension and brakes cheaply you're way ahead of the rest of us. If you were spending $75k I could see the Hemi *cost* argument being pointless. If you have $15k (for example) in the whole car then the cheaper engine is a MUCH bigger factor in the decision. However, you also have an R5 which would not only be wicked in this car but it removes the stigma of an off-brand transplant. Again, most people won't have those options. I think it will be cool either way but one of the attractions to Mopar is that not everyone has one - or can build one - and they aren't everywhere. The Chevy stuff often seems like the cheap and easy way out. And for a race car, cheap and reliable is more important than "exclusive". Although, it sounds as if this is a car to have fun in and not a full blown competition vehicle.

Besides, if you go with the R5 you can ship the LS to me and I'll stick it in my Toyota pickup!

Troy

perhaps it doesn't apply to this particular build because he's doing a lot of work himself, etc...but you see it often with high end street rods and customs. "yeah, so I had to import the ostrich penis skin from Namibia at $3k per square foot for the upholstery, I had these custom unobtanium alloy wheels made because I didn't like anything on the market, and my body guy spent 3000 hours just getting the body prepped for the metal flake paint that uses actual gold from a mine where some kid lost an arm digging for it. And here's the LS motor, because theyre cheap and plentiful"

Oh, I agree. It's definitely a head scratcher. But so is dropping a crate Hemi into a 318 body without making any other mods. Probably happens about as often...

Troy

[cbrestorations]

im shooting for 2500lbs, with just a simple but tucked real tight to the body 8 point cage.

[HPP]

I don't necessarily buy into a 100# weight difference, but it certainly is one of those "it depends" situation.

Just looking at what's out there on the web, the variety of availability in LS stuff means its all over the map. Heck, even the GM guys debate weights dependent upon generation and model and transmission type. There are some Gen3 LS Vette engines that are in the 450# range, but the Gen 4 LS Vette stuff is all between 475 and 500.  Any of the truck 5.3 LS mills are going to be 500-525 easily. By contrast a truck 5.7 Hemi is going to be 475-500 and an all iron 360 is 550. So yes, at the extreme ends there is the potential of a 100# difference, but I'd bet the common average is going to be closer to 30#. If you are talking about Mopar big blocks, then yes, there is a 100# difference. Some of the R5P7 stuff I've seen shows shipping weights of 500#, so strip away 20# worth of crate and you are in the same sub 500# range.

One thing that I can't disagree with the ease in setting up GM tuning in an EFi system. Mopars are improving, but still not as easy as the GM stuff.

FWIW, The opposed valves, pinched chamber design of the new Hemi will always have more power potential than the inline valve, wedge head of an LS.  But they are cheap to build if you grenade them. JCG Restorations has been through three of them so far in their purple Challenger they are running  in the Optima Ultimate series and they install these in all their cars, Dodge, Mustang, whatever. You'd think they would have their building of LS engines dialed in by now with their fleet and I think they have a pretty big name builder putting them together for them.

[cbrestorations]

long block ls3 is 418lbs with drive accessories. r5 nascar engine is 500lbs with drive accessories, chrysler 340 is 525lb, 440 chrysler is 670lbs, 426 hemi is yea...not gonna happen lol,
i may run the r5 still all ide have to do is make motor mounts, im gathering parts now, its just that i already have a t56 for an LS engine, i already have the ls3, i already have pcm and harness... i have a small budget on this car, mostly using old race parts and extra stuff from my restomod builds.
i dropped the car off at the frame jig today to get the front and rear frame rails straightened. they were just slightly tweaked.

[cbrestorations]

i picked up an entire grill setup from a swap meet for $700 for her

[HPP]

MikeDC has a thread posted in here somewhere on item weights he has removed from his Charger as he went through the rebuild process. I've also seen reference that a bare '68 shell with no bolt on panels and everything stripped from it is around 700#

[Mike DC]

 
That #700-ish figure wasn't my work.  I recall somebody (I can't remember who it was, sorry) was weighing a bare shell during a restomod build and came up with something in the low 600's.  That body was basically all there but it was not a clean unrestored survivor or anything.  

When all my component math for the whole car was added up, there wasn't a whole lot of unaccounted-for weight left over.  So I'm willing to buy the idea of 600-700-lb unibody.

Even the stock subframe rails don't weigh very much alone.  I once carried a bare (solid metal rails but no flooring on it) rear subframe clip for a '70, and was startled at how lightweight it was.  It was not comparable to a hand-fabbed 1/8" rectangular tubing version at all.  The only stock rail that weighs as much as you'd expect is probably the trans crossmember.  It's made of a bit thicker metal than the other sub-rails IIRC.

[cbrestorations]

oh yea, these chargers are very light uni-bodys, once you remove the all the iron engine, suspension, 3rd member and brakes with aluminum components the car could be in the high 2klb range easy

[HPP]

That #700-ish figure wasn't my work.  

No, I saw that number on another site, but I do recall looking over your component list and being impressed with the thouroughness of it all.

[cbrestorations]

when i get my shell back ill put it on the scales to see what it is