Cost of body work (photos added)

[fizz]

I'd leave it alone, car looks nice. Your budget will only allow for poor work on top of poor work, which will cost way more later to make right.

[skip68]

I'd leave it alone, car looks nice. Your budget will only allow for poor work on top of poor work, which will cost way more later to make right.

I fully agree.   The hood I'd do cause that stands out more and will not brake the bank.   As long as it can be color matched it's something that can be replaced fairly cheaply if it's in bad condition. 

[Stevearino]

A professional knows it is not wise to try and guess what your idea might be of " not 100 point " paint job. His only safe bet is to do the best job he can. Any thing in between and he is just opening up himself for  "I said I wouldn't be that picky but what you did was hideous".  I have run into this myself in other lines of work when a customer wants to cut corners then suddenly has much higher expectations of the finished job than you were able to guess. Not that you would do this but you can see that nobody who has experience wants to be on that hook.

[ws23rt]

I'd leave it alone, car looks nice. Your budget will only allow for poor work on top of poor work, which will cost way more later to make right.

I agree with this.  Your car looks very nice. The flaws you want to fix are small and to fix them in a lasting way would take what nearly everyone has said. $$.

If you just want to cover them up for a little longer you may be able to twist an arm to get it done for cheap and hope the color match is not worse than the original flaw. If those small flaws bother you enough to spend a couple thousand to fix just think how you would feel when the paint blend is something you can see. Would you ask/expect that it be redone until you are happy.

All the advice I see here comes from experience of one kind or another. It is not intended to satisfy your desire.  

[Aero426]

A professional knows it is not wise to try and guess what your idea might be of " not 100 point " paint job. His only safe bet is to do the best job he can. Any thing in between and he is just opening up himself for  "I said I wouldn't be that picky but what you did was hideous".  I have run into this myself in other lines of work when a customer wants to cut corners then suddenly has much higher expectations of the finished job than you were able to guess. Not that you would do this but you can see that nobody who has experience wants to be on that hook.

Well said.

[keith88]

The issue that i wanted to do was to pull off the vinyl top and paint it the color of the car. There are other small areas that i want to stop before it gets to be a  bigger problem that is why i want to do the other spots. The car was done several years ago im told and what is there will probably be all that shows body wise up at this point for a while. I have looked under the trunk and inside the fenders so i know its good there the cracked paint is just some bad prep Im sure. It looks good from the under side of things .

[skip68]

That's great that it looks good underneath.  But be prepared for what you might see under the vinyl.       if you go as far as removing the vinyl then I'd make sure you're ready to shell out lots of cash if it's rusty.       

[keith88]

The top was newly put on when the car was redone it feels nice from what you can feel of it no feelable pits under the top in all the usual places Chances are its good there as well but i understand its not a given.

[Charger-Bodie]

There are two main things at play here.

1) this stuff rarely ever is better than you expect.

2) if the body shop is any good they won't want there name one someone else's prep. Meaning strip to bare metal and work back up.

[JR]

 Your car looks great. I wouldnt worry about those small imperfections. If you store it Indoors I could see that paintjob lasting another 5-7 years before it needs redoing. I have to point out that you said you dont want a 100 point show job, yet youre worrying about very small flaws in your current paintjob that im honestly having a hard time seeing in some of the pics. Im sure the body guy picked up on that and has a sense of what kind of work youre expecting.

If youre strapped for cash and really want to delete the vinyl top, you could probably get them to remove it, leave the vinyl top trim on, and paint the roof down to the trim. Theres no blending, and much less stripping old paintwork necessary to do that. And it should be a whole lot cheaper. Just a thought.

[hemi-hampton]

A professional knows it is not wise to try and guess what your idea might be of " not 100 point " paint job. His only safe bet is to do the best job he can. Any thing in between and he is just opening up himself for  "I said I wouldn't be that picky but what you did was hideous".  I have run into this myself in other lines of work when a customer wants to cut corners then suddenly has much higher expectations of the finished job than you were able to guess. Not that you would do this but you can see that nobody who has experience wants to be on that hook.

I agree with this 100% & have said it myself before. People usually say they don't want a show car, then nitpick if it's not mint & flawless. I'd say go to Maaco if not nitpicky & not looking for a showcar. LEON.

[Bob T]

Actual work time on bodywork should take no longer than 24-30hrs tops and that being generous or at least that,s all it would take me.  

Fine. Do it yourself then. See what you uncover under the bubbles and how deep you'll go to make that good.
Also, try correctly matching your top coat without the spectrum analyzer telling you what is in there colourwise.
Sounds like you don't quite want a 100 point job  maybe 92 but only want to pay 40%.

And if you think the first body shop guy is trying to retire on you ( unlikely  ) then get 3 quotes and see where the median is and get to check out some of their work.

Quality costs to get it right, the body shop guy wants customer satisfaction, and he needs a bit of margin to pay his rent and capital costs,  thats how he stays in business. Get used to it. Maybe try working for yourself and see how you get on paying your mortgage, the bank wants their dough every month no matter how many late or non paying customers you might have.

[myk]

A professional knows it is not wise to try and guess what your idea might be of " not 100 point " paint job. His only safe bet is to do the best job he can. Any thing in between and he is just opening up himself for  "I said I wouldn't be that picky but what you did was hideous".  I have run into this myself in other lines of work when a customer wants to cut corners then suddenly has much higher expectations of the finished job than you were able to guess. Not that you would do this but you can see that nobody who has experience wants to be on that hook.

I agree with this 100% & have said it myself before. People usually say they don't want a show car, then nitpick if it's not mint & flawless. I'd say go to Maaco if not nitpicky & not looking for a showcar. LEON.

And if money might be an issue.  It is what it is...

[keith88]

I believe that a lot of people are misunderstanding what i want to do all im looking for at this point is to remove the vinyl top and fix a few issues before they get worst for a while. I'm not expecting it to last for the rest of its life, if i can get it to last another 10 years down the road than that is fine. I want it to look good but not perfect Im sure the restoration that was done was not done to show car standards. All i looking to do is stop surface spots before they get worst.  This was the 1st place i went to there are many more that i plan on seeing ,i have options people in the business and people i have dealt with who i haven't approached yet . I just believe that $15.000 to start is way out of whack for what i am looking to do. This is nothing that is in the near future its a few years down the road.

[JR]

I'm pretty sure we understand what you're saying, but I don't think you're understanding the size of the job you're asking for. Any reputable shop won't just scuff and shoot your car without knowing what's underneath. What if they give you the quick respray you're asking for, then the previous layer of paint fails, cracks, and ruins the new paint? Now a quick respray done to save cash has turned into a major, expensive headache.

If it helps, I'm freshining up my 70 as we speak. I went down to metal on this car back in 2004 and know exactly what's under it. Here's what I started with a month and a half ago.



Looks pretty good right? Just a quick respray, not going down to the metal, only addressing the scratches, dings, dents, and hidden rust that has popped up in the last 10 years.

I'll upload a current pic when I finish this round of wetsanding this morning, but I'm a month and a half into it at this point, probably 120 hours so far. And I still have 2-3 weeks left before I'm completely done. The car above will eat 160 hours of my time before being finished. And I started with a nice, straight car finished in PPG.

Hopefully that shows just because a car looks good, it doesn't mean you can knock out a nice quality paintjob in a week. There's no such thing as "just a quick and easy touch up" job when you're dealing with 40 plus year old vehicles.

[garner7555]

I used to do bodywork and paint for a living, filler doesn't crack unless it has a reason.   Could be bad prep work, exposure to excessive heat (this much heat would have most likely bubbled up the paint), or it could be filler was used to repair rust.  My bet is on rust, especially due to the location behind the glass.  If I was giving a quote, seeing those spots would cause me to want to strip the whole car to bare metal and then see where we stood.  That is likely why his price is up there, he is planning to do a better job than what you are asking for.  

I finally realized I didn't have time to do my car myself so I sent it to my local restoration shop that specializes in Mopar muscle cars.  I sent it as a bare shell on a rotisserie and that is how I will get it back.  He quoted me around 12000 for body work and paint but he said he has never seen a mopar with such a good solid body on it (only panel replacing is front valance and it was repairable).  This shop is out in the country like me and is really cheap (35 per hour) but does good quality work.  

Maybe you should shop around and compare prices, It sounds like you don't want the highest quality of work so in light of that you probably can find someone cheaper.  

[fizz]

I used to do bodywork also. I got my car stripped, on a rotisserie, and new floors, quarters, taillight panels, and Dutchman panel installed myself. Took it to a restoration shop for final bodywork and paint cause I was 2 years in and wanted it done. Car came back perfect top/bottom/inside out. I would have done it in the 90s for 10-12 thou. Cost me 30. I got over it quick. The expected quality of these cars has really increased over the years. A showable car from then is just driver quality now.

[skip68]

When I was shopping for a paint shop I couldn't get anyone to do it unless they did the prep.  There wasn't any rust issues, just sand and paint and the average price was around $7,500 if I'm remembering correct.   So I spent countless hours sanding myself, found a shop that would spray it on the cheap (just under $3k) and ended up with a driver quality looking paint job.   
  I should've spent at least another 50 to 60 hours block sanding.  But l was cheap.   I'm thinking this is the route you should take.   Just be sure to really put some time into it without rushing or you'll be wishing you did.   If a shop doesn't do the prep they can't guarantee the paint job and most won't touch it if they're reputable.   

[1970Moparmann]

Im doing 100% of the work myself and probably will have 4 hours a day/5 days a week/2 months of work. Thats 160 hours of labor for my car, which was pretty solid before I started. If I were doing this for someone else, then price would be = 160 hours x 80 bucks an hour = $12,800 in labor cost.

12,800 for labor plus 900 in materials = $13,700. Add in the owners shop fees and a little cushion for suprises, and boom, 15k.

It adds up!  Above explains it all! 

I've always wanted to complete all the bodywork on a car, and my first project will be my Bird - can't wait!   Going to get it on the road this year with just an engine compartment redo, but when my boys get a little older, will be doing the whole car. 

[Homerr]

I believe that a lot of people are misunderstanding what i want to do all im looking for at this point is to remove the vinyl top and fix a few issues before they get worst for a while. I'm not expecting it to last for the rest of its life, if i can get it to last another 10 years down the road than that is fine. I want it to look good but not perfect Im sure the restoration that was done was not done to show car standards. All i looking to do is stop surface spots before they get worst.  This was the 1st place i went to there are many more that i plan on seeing ,i have options people in the business and people i have dealt with who i haven't approached yet . I just believe that $15.000 to start is way out of whack for what i am looking to do. This is nothing that is in the near future its a few years down the road.

This is more complicated than you are leading yourself to believe.

What I think you are expecting:
1.  Pull vinyl top
2.  Prime
3.  Sand
4.  Paint
5.  Pay $3k

What I think the reality is (and note that you are asking those of us that have been through this):
- gotta pull the front and back glass - could find rust in the window channels, classic Charger.  I think you stated that the quarters have had work.  Did they repair the source?  i.e. rear window/sail panel rust?  On mine we ran into quarter sized holes under the vinyl top where the lead sail seam meets up with the rear window channel - completely unexpected.
- dutchman panel repairs?
- weld up the vinyl top trim holes - best to at least partially pull interior/headliner
- the roof skin could be pitted beyond repair - I ran in to this issue myself (about 20 pencil diameter holes along the front and rear edges of the roof skin and a few in the middle), full interior removal for welding
- remove the drip rail moldings
- the sail panel lead seam might need repairs
- how is the roof paint going to transition to the quarters?
- will the paint/body be guaranteed?  will you be happy if it is even $10k and the painter says that they won't guarantee a bit of their work?

It's going to be dynamic and no going back pretty quick.  If the guy says $15k then you'd better have at least $20k in the bank ready to spend.  If you don't then just leave it as-is.

Anyway, take a look here and see what I found removing the vinyl roof.  I initially just went in to get the lower rear window channel repaired.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,91842.0.html

[Dino]

I think it's all been said here.  I was a body man as well and also would not touch your car unless I could do a full nut and bolt recto.  $15K won't get you much.

You just want the roof matched and blemishes fixed so I suggest you do the prep yourself and have Maaco respray it.  It'll be far from perfect but it's cheap and it'll be driver quality.

There's really no third option except leave it as is.

I have wanted to remove my vinyl top since I got the car, but it's a hell of a lot of work to do it right so it won't happen until I finish grad school and have a job.

[keith88]

I believe that a lot of people are misunderstanding what i want to do all im looking for at this point is to remove the vinyl top and fix a few issues before they get worst for a while. I'm not expecting it to last for the rest of its life, if i can get it to last another 10 years down the road than that is fine. I want it to look good but not perfect Im sure the restoration that was done was not done to show car standards. All i looking to do is stop surface spots before they get worst.  This was the 1st place i went to there are many more that i plan on seeing ,i have options people in the business and people i have dealt with who i haven't approached yet . I just believe that $15.000 to start is way out of whack for what i am looking to do. This is nothing that is in the near future its a few years down the road.

This is more complicated than you are leading yourself to believe.

What I think you are expecting:
1.  Pull vinyl top
2.  Prime
3.  Sand
4.  Paint
5.  Pay $3k

What I think the reality is (and note that you are asking those of us that have been through this):
- gotta pull the front and back glass - could find rust in the window channels, classic Charger.  I think you stated that the quarters have had work.  Did they repair the source?  i.e. rear window/sail panel rust?  On mine we ran into quarter sized holes under the vinyl top where the lead sail seam meets up with the rear window channel - completely unexpected.
- dutchman panel repairs?
- weld up the vinyl top trim holes - best to at least partially pull interior/headliner
- the roof skin could be pitted beyond repair - I ran in to this issue myself (about 20 pencil diameter holes along the front and rear edges of the roof skin and a few in the middle), full interior removal for welding
- remove the drip rail moldings
- the sail panel lead seam might need repairs
- how is the roof paint going to transition to the quarters?
- will the paint/body be guaranteed?  will you be happy if it is even $10k and the painter says that they won't guarantee a bit of their work?

It's going to be dynamic and no going back pretty quick.  If the guy says $15k then you'd better have at least $20k in the bank ready to spend.  If you don't then just leave it as-is.

Anyway, take a look here and see what I found removing the vinyl roof.  I initially just went in to get the lower rear window channel repaired.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,91842.0.html

No not 3 grand more like south of 8 the roof is fine under the top the trim pieces are going back on like I said SURFACE rust  down by the holes for the trim nowhere else trying to stop/slow it down for a while as far as for the windows pull trim cut top at window paint put trim back on done that before who going to know but me. This is NOT a restore just a fix /slow down what's there for a while will do more/again at a later time it don't have to be 15 grand . I will find someone when it's time. All the response seems to be from a done /done right aspect that is not nessaserly what I'm looking for at this time.

[keith88]

Just had a local dodge dealer body shop look at it in my town and He really liked the car and said it would be between 7- 10 grand and hes painting the whole car as well ..now that what i expected . Not 15 grand to start  like the last moron. He just did my sons car when he hit a deer and did my wrangler a few years back dose great work ,think i found my guy although is a few years down the road.

[69 OUR/TEA]

What I am misunderstanding is , taking the vinyl off to repair what is underneath , or taking it off to NOT have a vinyl top car (paint the roof)?
If taking of to paint , there's your 24-30 hours right there :
1. Take off front/rear window trim/drip rail moldings.(carefull,don't bend them up!)
2. Take out front/rear windows (that's if you want to do it right,carefull , don't break the back glass or windshield ,  extra $$$$$ !!)
3. Interior headliner sail panels to get the nuts that hold on the Charger script.
4. Now as it was a vinyl top it has " putty" not lead like the hardtop cars. So dig that out , and bodywork the sail panels smooth.
5. Bunch of hours cleaning off the glue , PIA and messy !!!!
6. What dents/rust/waves you gonna find lurking under there , you will !!!!!
7. Weld up the vinyl top holes/ bodywork smoothing out those areas.
8. Now you can start fixing what you were talking about !!!!
9. With all that you described , I wouldn't think anything less than a full paint job at that point !!!!
10. So , off with the bumpers , trim , door handles , grill , etc , etc , etc, etc !!!

   $7-10k sounds awefull good !!!!! By that , I mean cheap !!!!!!
 

[1974dodgecharger]

Im sorry, but I have to laugh at those photos!!!!  Please don't tell me your NOT driving that beautiful car because of those things you see as, 'flaws'   

I can NOW see why people see my car as, 'JUNK' when they see it in face to face time.  You would have a heart attack if you saw my car in person if you think those pics are considered, 'horrible' and you need a, 'touch' up 

Just drive it and enjoy the snot out of it......