tti vs. Doug´s headers

[Rubberduck]

I have a 440 with Edelbrock heads in my ´68 Charger, Power steering 4-speed.
And I tried Summit Racing headers. That was a big mistake. These headers a really crap.
Now my question: What headers would fit my combination best? I don´t want ho hammer on the ceramic coated tubes.

[dstryr]

Flip a coin on TTI v Doug's, I have Doug's D452's on my 69 RR w/440, power steering & 4speed also, fit like a glove, no hammer required.

[BSB67]

I'm not a header guy and offer no suggestion, but I sure like that picture.

[firefighter3931]

I'm pretty sure the Dougs headers are almost identical to the TTI's....and fit just as well. For a build like yours a 1 7/8in primary tube header is the right choice. A 2in primary will kill of some torque and low end power. 


Ron

[Rubberduck]

Thank you.

@Ron: it's a 440 stroker with 505cui.
I bought that motor from Todd (Competition Wedge Engines). Compression ratio is 10. 5. It's got a Comp Cams hydraulic roller cam, duration @ .050" 230 intake, 236 exhaust. Would it be better to use 2" primary tubes in this case?

[myk]

I think Doug's headers are cheaper by $200 than the comparable TTi, if that means anything to you...

[firefighter3931]

Thank you.

@Ron: it's a 440 stroker with 505cui.
I bought that motor from Todd (Competition Wedge Engines). Compression ratio is 10. 5. It's got a Comp Cams hydraulic roller cam, duration @ .050" 230 intake, 236 exhaust. Would it be better to use 2" primary tubes in this case?

With a 500in build....torque is no problemo ! 

In that case the 2in primary tube headers are fine. If the Doug's are less expensive then that's the way to go. I've seen both and the quality is the same. I wouldn't have a problem with the Doug's on my car even though I have the TTI's on it now 

Todd builds a nice engine....I'm sure you'll be very happy with it 



Ron

[charger1972]

I bought my short block 512 and Indy heads done by Todd . Ron is right , you won`t be disappointed . I went with the Tti headers on mine .

[Rubberduck]

Thank you very much for all these informations.
So, I will go for Doug´s headers.


Mario

[RIDELIKEHELL]

My TTI's discolored fyi..the Dougs are nice

[comet_666]

I throw another brand out there. $380

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OBX-Header-67-68-69-70-B-Body-Mopar-361-440-Mid-Tube-Road-Runner-Super-b-/181739093448

OBX.

I will have them on my ride in a few weeks.

[myk]

My TTI's discolored fyi..the Dougs are nice

Did they have a coating on them?  We're they plain?

[Bob T]

My TTI's discolored fyi..the Dougs are nice

Did they have a coating on them?  We're they plain?

I have Doug's on my 440, they are ceramic chrome coated. Pretty blue looking close to the intake and a bit of surface rust down the seam line to the collector, but other wise fine, they've probably been on this car at least 14 years, I should add I've done 10,000 miles on them

[myk]

Thanks for the input.  Your post just made Dougs a real contender as a choice of headers for me...

[Ghoste]

For me as well.

[mopar0166]

SO I was putting funds aside to replace my hookers with TTI because its  pain changing angled plugs

how does the headers from dougs work with angled plug heads?

I love their cutouts and would by their headers if they fit as well as tti

[scott1973]

I like this thread since I am in the market for a set of headers as well.  Going on a 470" stroker.  I was under the impression that only the TTI's would fit with the angled spark plugs on the Edelbrock heads which I have as well.  I have three concerns with the TTI's. 
1.  It says to use an old set of headers or manifolds for the break in.  Is this necessary?  I have Hooker Comps and they wont fit and a set of HP manifolds which I have not tried. 
2.  It states that we need to shorten one of the transmission linkage brackets.  Does not look to complicated but its just one more thing to do.  Do the Dougs headers fit with angled plugs? 
3.  Which starter to use?  I bought a mini starter from 440 Source and figured it would work with just about anything.

Do the Dougs headers have these same issues? 

Thanks for any help,
Scott

[scott1973]

Nevermind.  I answered my own questions.  I see Dougs does not offer headers for a 73 Charger so that eliminates them.  TTI has a list of starters that will fit on their site so that answers that question.  Looks like TTI it is.  Hope I dont destroy the ceramic coating getting it started for the first time and breaking it in.   

Thanks,
Scott

[Bob T]

Mini starter was already installed when I got it.
I'll put up some pics tonight of the plugs and discolouration

Ok, there we go, traces of QQ1...
Passenger side is hitting the shock tower when I really lean on it
The oil cap sometimes pukes onto the header after a big rev which is why it is discoloured there

[dstryr]

Mini starter was already installed when I got it.
I'll put up some pics tonight of the plugs and discolouration

Ok, there we go, traces of QQ1...
Passenger side is hitting the shock tower when I really lean on it
The oil cap sometimes pukes onto the header after a big rev which is why it is discoloured there

Driver side almost drops in, right?  The passenger side was the challenge on mine, car clear up in the air, header fed in from below with a helper moving the engine from the top side...   Good comment on the shock tower, mine was clear when I first installed the headers and the same tube has 'self clearanced', like yours.  I'd tweek the header first if it was going into a nice new engine bay but the tower did a nice job in my ratty car.

One tube is also pretty close to the torsion bar on the passenger side but hasn't hit, and on the driver side there is good clearance around the mini starter and bell housing.  I did use a braided plug wire sleeves to keep the heat off the cables going to the starter and spark plug boots and in 3 years have not had a heat soak issue, either.

Sleeves similar to these:

[BSB67]

Mini starter was already installed when I got it.
I'll put up some pics tonight of the plugs and discolouration

Ok, there we go, traces of QQ1...
Passenger side is hitting the shock tower when I really lean on it
The oil cap sometimes pukes onto the header after a big rev which is why it is discoloured there

Thanks for reminding me why I so don't want headers..............

[myk]

Mini starter was already installed when I got it.
I'll put up some pics tonight of the plugs and discolouration

Ok, there we go, traces of QQ1...
Passenger side is hitting the shock tower when I really lean on it
The oil cap sometimes pukes onto the header after a big rev which is why it is discoloured there

Thanks for reminding me why I so don't want headers..............

Can't argue with that one.  There many reasons why not to go that route...

[Bob T]

Probably if I had a torque bar opposing the motor travel it would alleviate the fouling on the shock tower.
The braids are a good idea, I just wrapped mine with glass sleeving tape and wired it in place.

Yes, close to the torsion bars in one place, I have some more pics on another PC, will have a look tonight

[mopar0166]

Ok so it looks that the extra 150 ish is still worth it when running with angled plugs

[Rubberduck]

I ordered Doug's D452's for my 440.
They did not fit like supposed. I had to massage them at the steering gearbox and also on the passenger side torsion bar..
I was able to get them in from underneath the car. On the passenger side it is easy.
On the drivers side I had to remove the steering linkage on the pitman arm,
the torsion bar and had to raise the engine at the rearend about 1 or two inches.


Mario                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

[myk]

That sucks; at least you got them in, though.  I'm probably going to go with Doug's as well.  $150-200 may not seem like much money but every penny counts.  Let us know how you like them...

[BSB67]

Mini starter was already installed when I got it.
I'll put up some pics tonight of the plugs and discolouration

Ok, there we go, traces of QQ1...
Passenger side is hitting the shock tower when I really lean on it
The oil cap sometimes pukes onto the header after a big rev which is why it is discoloured there

Thanks for reminding me why I so don't want headers..............

[myk]

Mini starter was already installed when I got it.
I'll put up some pics tonight of the plugs and discolouration

Ok, there we go, traces of QQ1...
Passenger side is hitting the shock tower when I really lean on it
The oil cap sometimes pukes onto the header after a big rev which is why it is discoloured there

Thanks for reminding me why I so don't want headers..............

For f**k's sake I can't decide if I want headers or HP manifolds.  Maybe I should set up a thread/vote...

[Mike DC]

So get something in between the two, like a set of Tri-Y headers.

[myk]

I read that tri Y's have to be specifically built/setup for the car they're being set up on.  Because of that, I understand that 4 into 1's are best for generalized applications like ours.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.  What about shorty's?

[scott1973]

I received my tti's (1-7/8) and they fit great so far.  Had to bend the oil dip stick tube down to fit.  These headers have tons of room for the angled plugs on my Edelbrock Performer RPM heads.  I'm not use to that.  I had Hooker Comps on my 906's and they were tight.  I am interested to see how the rest of the install goes when we drop the engine in. 

Scott

[myk]

Again I'm amazed at how each car is different with identical modifications.  Makes me wonder just how far off these chassis' are from when they left the factory...

[Kern Dog]

Guys like BSB67 are the exceptions. Guys like him are able to tune their engines to the nth degree to get the most out of their combo. Headers fit and work fine when you step up and pay more. The $200 headers are shit, plain and simple. Hooker makes crappy fitting headers, Hedmans aren't a whole lot better. TTI prices their stuff as if the company owner thinks he has NO competition. Thankfully, Dougs provides a great alternative.
I have 2" TTIs in my Charger. 2 years ago, I replaced my K member with another that I welded and stiffened up with some gussets in the steering box mounts. The headers fit and cleared before the K swap, but afterward they hit the steering box. This tells me that the factory jigging of the K members wasn't exact from one unit to the next. Knowing this, it is clear that header companies have a pisser of a time making stuff for our cars. Ma Mopar didn't give a rats scrotum about what happened to these cars once they were off of the assembly line. The drivers side alone has steering linkage, trans shift linkage, (OR clutch linkage)  ATF lines, Neutral safety switch & wiring, a starter & wiring, speedo cable and a torsion bar all in the way of 4 header tubes trying to fit in.
Ever try to install headers in a 70 and later Camaro or Chevelle? Front mounted steering linkage, coil spring suspension, ATF lines and starter on the right.....
But then you'd have to drive a Chevy...

[myk]

All good points Kern.

Then there's also the question of which muffler to use.  Some say "X" brand is too loud, others say it isn't loud enough, or there is/isn't resonation, on and on and on.  Again there are so many differences between our cars that one setup will work differently or not at all.  I've tried watching YouTube clips with startups and idles but...once you get past the agonizingly slow process of the owner FINALLY getting their Charger to actually START, (why would someone film that part anyway?), the car is just too quiet.  Ironically you know muffler that made the biggest impression?  Flowmasters...

[Kern Dog]

I liked the sound of the Flowmasters at idle. Where it annoyed me was when driving alongside sound walls or another vehicle. The sound waves reverberated too much for me. I later went with a mandrel x pipe with 3" tubes and Ultra Flo mufflers. The idle sound is muted but it is much more pleasant at cruise.

[myk]

I liked the sound of the Flowmasters at idle. Where it annoyed me was when driving alongside sound walls or another vehicle. The sound waves reverberated too much for me. I later went with a mandrel x pipe with 3" tubes and Ultra Flo mufflers. The idle sound is muted but it is much more pleasant at cruise.

Which Flowmasters did you use-40's?

[Kern Dog]

I can't remember if they were the 42451 or the 42541. I did save them and weld them into the Power wagon. I can get under it Sunday to see.

[myk]

So when it comes to exhaust everyone talks about "drone," and it seems to be the deciding factor for liking or hating a muffler and exhaust.  Just what is drone?  I'm guessing it's the constant tone that dominates all other exhaust noise and establishes itself during cruising speeds/conditions?  If that is the drone that everyone hates so much, I have to say that noise from the exhaust is what I consider to be the sweet spot of the exhaust range.  In my car I hit that spot from 40-55 mph and when traffic allows, I'll try to drive at that speed just so I can listen to it as long as I can.  Is that the noise that everyone hates so much, with particular emphasis pointed towards the Flowmasters? 

[Kern Dog]

I interpret DRONE as where the exhaust tone drills an annoying beam of noise through your brain.
Imagine the sound that occurs when you are in a high load, low rpm condition where the exhaust resonates or reverberates like crazy. Drone is directly tied to load and rpms. Drone changes if you downshift and the rpms go up. Many things contribute to it from exhaust tubing size, muffler type, whether or not you have tailpipes that exit under the rear bumper and other factors.
Look around. There are many reports of combinations that worked and others that didn't. Personally, I find that headers actually reduce the risk of drone noise.