Line bore

[justcruisin]

When I built my 440 I reused the main bolts, I had the crank ground 10 and bearing clearance set to 0.0025". The block was not line bored. I never intended to beat on it at the track but things have a habit of changing. Can I simply pull the bolts and replace with ARP bolts, is it worth it, or do I need to pull the engine and have it line bored and fit it up with studs? Engine is around the 480-500hp mark. At a later stage I will do a cam swap with some head work.

[Challenger340]

When I built my 440 I reused the main bolts, I had the crank ground 10 and bearing clearance set to 0.0025". The block was not line bored. I never intended to beat on it at the track but things have a habit of changing. Can I simply pull the bolts and replace with ARP bolts, is it worth it, or do I need to pull the engine and have it line bored and fit it up with studs? Engine is around the 480-500hp mark. At a later stage I will do a cam swap with some head work.

So is this a running engine that you have been using/running for awhile ?

ARP "bolts", replacing stock "bolts", is usually not a problem.
"Studs" can potentially apply more crush to the Caps and distort the main bores, but again here "usually" many people encounter no problems retro-fitting WITHOUT Line HONING, as mains are pretty foregiving, especially when sufficient Bearing clearance is present so they can compensate and "conform" after some run-in time.

Whether you really need either Bolts or Studs may be up for debate ?
How are you figuring the 480-500 hp ?
What Compression, Heads and Camshaft ?
 

[justcruisin]

I am figuring the HP by an ET and MPH of 13.02 @ 109 with a weight of 4050lbs and 3.23's with street tires on an unpreped track.
Engine is 10.2:1 eddy rpms with a comp xe275hl. K1 H-beams and SRP pistons, factory forged crank. Cranks at 185psi.

Engine has been running in the car for three years with zero problems (apart from a rear main leak) - maintains a 45 psi hot idle. I have put 4500 miles on it.

[BSB67]

At your actual power level, you are fine with what you have now, IMO.

[justcruisin]

At your actual power level, you are fine with what you have now, IMO.

OK - I posted a thread  before asking if drag radials would make a difference, you said I was making around 420 flywheel HP. I am unsure if that is HP as it would be measured on an engine dyno with no accessories or is it the HP the engine would make in the car with full exhaust power steer water pump etc measured at the flywheel. I took what you said as a nett HP figure, is that incorrect?

Regardless I just want to do all I can to beef things up so if the feeling is that it is OK to fit bolts or studs without stripping the motor I will do that. Sounds like it might be not necessary but small cost if there is no down side.

Thanks for the input.

[Challenger340]

At your actual power level, you are fine with what you have now, IMO.

OK - I posted a thread  before asking if drag radials would make a difference, you said I was making around 420 flywheel HP. I am unsure if that is HP as it would be measured on an engine dyno with no accessories or is it the HP the engine would make in the car with full exhaust power steer water pump etc measured at the flywheel. I took what you said as a nett HP figure, is that incorrect?

Regardless I just want to do all I can to beef things up so if the feeling is that it is OK to fit bolts or studs without stripping the motor I will do that. Sounds like it might be not necessary but small cost if there is no down side.

Thanks for the input.

The 109 mph is very good, and indicative of the around 500hp flywheel on that weight, but nobody can say for sure until the engine itself gets on an actual Engine Dyno due to variances in parasitic losses through the drivetrain(assuming an Auto).
IMO, Studs are never a bad idea meeting or exceeding 500 hp, but agreed you are probably fine now where you are.

Some cautions moving forward though.... IMO
* is that if it cranks at 185 psi with that Cam(XE275HL), you either have far more Compression Ratio than 10.2 ? or your gauge is busted ?
That cam has a closing point of 63.5* ATDC .... which would require about 11.3 to 11.5 C.R. to pump 185 psi with that Cam at sea level ?
Which means..... if your gauge is accurate ?   and you DO have 185 psi ?
Studs would be a really good idea because the Engine will be detonating on 91 Octane Fuel, damaging Pistons and Mains.

* Secondly here..... anything "gained" or conversely "lost" in your 60 ft time, can basically be doubled on or off your E.T..... but at the same mph.
If you have a 2.0 second 60 ft time at the 109 mph / 13.02 ET....... all you have to do is get the 60 ft time down to around 1.8 seconds, and you will run the same 109 mph, but at a .4 second faster ET of ~12.60 (2.0 - 1.8 = .2 doubled roughly to .4)
Which means,
forget the Cam Swap  and Head work until you can hook up the CURRENT power you already HAVE, by matching your current 109 mph to a satisfactory E.T. down around 12.40's with GEARING & Convertor ?
sorry, 3.23's won't cut it with any tire, drag radial or not...... just alot of heat going out the convertor.

[justcruisin]

I am sure of the compression - my gauge read is 180psi, I wanted to check it so I borrowed a friends gauge, it read 195-198psi. I bought an industrial gauge that was said to be very accurate and I fitted it up to my hose. It read 185psi - give or take one psi on all cylinders. I have a wide band o2 in the car, I have recorded a full throttle run and it is running at between 12.4 and 12.8 through the rev range - albeit testing only in 1st and second gear (yes its an auto).
I do regular plug inspections and I have not found any signs of detonation on the plugs. I run the car on 93 but have run it on 91 and I did experience audible detonation on a pull up a hill. Also most of my driving is under 1000ft - mostly sea level. The track is at sea level or there abouts.
Pistons are at zero deck and the rpm heads are untouched with a .039" gasket. Timing is at 18/34 by 2500rpm. I degreed the cam at 106.

If I pull the main caps, will I see signs of detonation if it has been occurring?

Just a note - I would say the engine is on the edge for detonation at sea level. When I first had it up and running I used the recommended plug and it showed signs of detonating with 93. I dropped it by one heat range and made sure of the tune and no more signs of it. I might add a splash of race fuel on track days.

Do you feel that it would be OK to fit up studs or bolts (which) without line honing.

My plan is to maximize what I have with a gear swap to 3.91 and the tires and move on from there.

I am unsure of my converter efficiency - I did a stall test on it yesterday and I pulled it to 3200, I think it had around 10 percent slip at the end of the track but I'm not sure, just a glance at the gauge. The gauge is accurate.

Thanks for the post - I appreciate your input.

[BSB67]

At your actual power level, you are fine with what you have now, IMO.

OK - I posted a thread  before asking if drag radials would make a difference, you said I was making around 420 flywheel HP. I am unsure if that is HP as it would be measured on an engine dyno with no accessories or is it the HP the engine would make in the car with full exhaust power steer water pump etc measured at the flywheel. I took what you said as a nett HP figure, is that incorrect?

Very Good, that is correct, I think (can't remember the details of my previous post).    It is also uncorrected, unless I adjusted for atmospheric conditions.    So the 410 - 420 net actual could be 450 corrected flywheel (engine dyno) or maybe 500 hp if your you were running 109 with a DA of 6000 ft.  If you were running close to std conditions, more like 440 to 450.

Does not really matter, its just there are so many happy hp numbers out there it makes me sick.  The 109 is undisputable and is what the engine components and drivetrain see. 

[BSB67]

I am sure of the compression - my gauge read is 180psi, I wanted to check it so I borrowed a friends gauge, it read 195-198psi. I bought an industrial gauge that was said to be very accurate and I fitted it up to my hose. It read 185psi - give or take one psi on all cylinders. I have a wide band o2 in the car, I have recorded a full throttle run and it is running at between 12.4 and 12.8 through the rev range - albeit testing only in 1st and second gear (yes its an auto).
I do regular plug inspections and I have not found any signs of detonation on the plugs. I run the car on 93 but have run it on 91 and I did experience audible detonation on a pull up a hill. Also most of my driving is under 1000ft - mostly sea level. The track is at sea level or there abouts.
Pistons are at zero deck and the rpm heads are untouched with a .039" gasket. Timing is at 18/34 by 2500rpm. I degreed the cam at 106.

If I pull the main caps, will I see signs of detonation if it has been occurring?

Just a note - I would say the engine is on the edge for detonation at sea level. When I first had it up and running I used the recommended plug and it showed signs of detonating with 93. I dropped it by one heat range and made sure of the tune and no more signs of it. I might add a splash of race fuel on track days.

Do you feel that it would be OK to fit up studs or bolts (which) without line honing.

My plan is to maximize what I have with a gear swap to 3.91 and the tires and move on from there.

I am unsure of my converter efficiency - I did a stall test on it yesterday and I pulled it to 3200, I think it had around 10 percent slip at the end of the track but I'm not sure, just a glance at the gauge. The gauge is accurate.

Thanks for the post - I appreciate your input.

I actually think that cam and compression ratio sounds about right with you observed cylinder pressure.  Hydraulic bleed down can affect the cranking numbers too.

You may or may not see signs of detonation on the mains.   A lot of people mistaken cap walk for detonation.

Yes, I think you can fit up studs or bolts without line honing.  Most machine shops will say no.  Again, I don't think you need it.

An inexpensive convertor will gobble up power like there is no tomorrow.  Don't skip in this department.

[justcruisin]

Does not really matter, its just there are so many happy hp numbers out there it makes me sick.  The 109 is undisputable and is what the engine components and drivetrain see. 

I'm happy with the 109, considering it was my first time at the track. The track is probably a good dyno anyway.

[BSB67]

Does not really matter, its just there are so many happy hp numbers out there it makes me sick.  The 109 is undisputable and is what the engine components and drivetrain see. 

I'm happy with the 109, considering it was my first time at the track. The track is probably a good dyno anyway.

As you should be!  Here is my prediction......If you take a methodic approach to track tuning the car and engine, and work on driving technique, you can go deep into the 12's and add a couple of mph without tires, gear, and/or convertor.  This has been the case 100% of the time for every street car that I've worked on where there is a commitment to do so.  Unfortunately, few people have the patience to do this.

[justcruisin]

Hmmm, guess that would be a challenge, and skill required - easier with the upgrades though. I don't have a bucket load of cash to spend or time (single dad, three kids, full time job), in reality I'm only going to get to the track 4-5 times a year so my driving skills wont have a good chance to develop, but part of why I own the car is doing things myself - turning a respectable number is very satisfying considering I turn all the spanners, including building the engine. I imagine also satisfying choosing the path less taken.

My first priority is durability and I intend to pull the trans and upgrade there along with some axles and u-joints.

We will see how she goes, cheers.