food for thought

[el dub]

mods if this is deemed political please remove
Subject: FW: Hamburgers and Minimum Wage


 


Something to  Think About!
 
Low military pay was not mentioned in the State  Of The Union speech.
However, increasing the minimum wage was for those  fast food employees
striking for $15 an hour. Let's do some  math:
 
At $15 an hour Johnny Fry-Boy would make *$31,200*  annually.
 
An E1 (Private) in the military makes*  $18,378*.
 
An E5 (Sergeant) with 8 years of service only makes  $35,067
annually.
 
 
So you're telling me, LaTisha  McBurgerflipper, that you deserve as much as
those kids getting shot  at, deploying for months in hostile environments,
and putting their  collective asses on the line every day protecting your
unskilled  butt!?
 
Here's the deal, Baconator, you are working in a job  designed for a kid in
high school who is learning how to work and  earning enough for gas, and
hanging out with their equally goofy high  school pals. If you have chosen
this as your life long profession, you  have failed. If you don't want
minimum wage, don't have minimum  skills.
 
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it's in  English, thank a Veteran.

[stripedelete]

mods if this is deemed political please remove
Subject: FW: Hamburgers and Minimum Wage


 



 
An E1 (Private) in the military makes*  $18,378*.
 
An E5 (Sergeant) with 8 years of service only makes  $35,067
annually.
 
 

What's their pension after 20 years?

[John_Kunkel]

Military service is voluntary, if you chose service for financial reward you didn't choose wisely. And don't forget, military gets three hots and a cot, free medical/dental, commissary, retirement at an early age, etc...so factor that into the wage.

[skip68]

 


 
Here's the deal, Baconator, you are working in a job  designed for a kid in
high school who is learning how to work and  earning enough for gas, and
hanging out with their equally goofy high  school pals. If you have chosen
this as your life long profession, you  have failed. If you don't want
minimum wage, don't have minimum  skills.
 

Amen.  That's the truth right there.  Fast food or general labor are what I and most consider as starter jobs.   Not intended to be a career.   

[Mike DC]

You'll end up in jail if you try to survive on much less than $1500/month in the USA.  That is nuts.  We would be better off reducing (everyone's) living costs than trying to divert more money to the poor.   

[Ryan.C]

As a current service member of 13 years I have no complaints as far as the compensation goes. Its not the greatest but my family is taken care of while I go about the needs of the Army. And after 20 yrs you almost have to retire because your body is so broken down. I do love what I do but I could not do it if the pay did not support my wife and children.

[TruckDriver]

Consider this too, I been driving truck for 33 years now, and I only get $18.00 a hour + overtime. If I want benefits, that's extra. I hardly eat out now, few times a year maybe. I'll NEVER eat out again unless someone else buys if they get a raise that big.  

[ITSA426]

You're not comparing apples to apples here at all.  Military service compensation includes room and board as well as free medical, including prescription coverage, and dependent coverage.  Entry level jobs don't include months of employer paid training with housing and meals.  Additionally there are benefits available after leaving the employment of the U.S. military.  Minimum wages jobs rarely/never include 30 days of annual paid vacation from the start.  I think it's embarrassing that our soldiers often are paid less than the private contractors they are protecting.  Perhaps a more fair compensation comparison could be made by comparing the wages of soldiers to the contractors; especially since the contractors often receive their training courtesy of the American taxpayer.  I really don't think there is a good way to compare this from an education - requirement - compensation perspective.  I think it's terrible that an enlisted soldier with a family and a WalMart worker with a family are both eligible for government assistance through food stamps and other poverty programs.  I'm only talking compensation here, not politics.

[myk]

If someone wants more money then GET A BETTER JOB.  Don't BANKRUPT the rest of us because of your laziness, stupidity and inability to earn more...

[twodko]

What John Kunkel said X2

[bakerhillpins]

What John Kunkel said X2

This is going to go sideways fast..   

[el dub]

Military service is voluntary, if you chose service for financial reward you didn't choose wisely. And don't forget, military gets three hots and a cot, free medical/dental, commissary, retirement at an early age, etc...so factor that into the wage.

So what are you saying, that fast food workers deserve 15 dollars an hour. Would you say that if you owned the business? Military service is voluntary now> and you can still get killed doing your job. How many fast food workers have been killed on the job. Not counting spilled coffee . How many fast food workers are disabled for life.  think of it like this.

[ws23rt]

 


 
Here's the deal, Baconator, you are working in a job  designed for a kid in
high school who is learning how to work and  earning enough for gas, and
hanging out with their equally goofy high  school pals. If you have chosen
this as your life long profession, you  have failed. If you don't want
minimum wage, don't have minimum  skills.
 

Amen.  That's the truth right there.  Fast food or general labor are what I and most consider as starter jobs.   Not intended to be a career.   

I agree with this and wonder how some can't (or don't) see the simple nature of starting from zero and moving forward.

A job is equivalent to trekking out to find food because we are hungry. If one is lazy or unmotivated they get less or no food.
When we are very young we are fed and taught how to gather until we get how to do it.

So now we start going out to find food and our pay is how much we find. As we learn better skills and work harder we get more food and learn how to build shelter.

Taking food and shelter from those that worked for it and giving it to those that chose not to effort is what we are doing more and more. Not a lasting formula for everyone.

[el dub]

A lot of kids go through high school without a clue. Then they go to work at taco bell. and that's as far as they can go.

[stripedelete]

Military service is voluntary, if you chose service for financial reward you didn't choose wisely. And don't forget, military gets three hots and a cot, free medical/dental, commissary, retirement at an early age, etc...so factor that into the wage.

So what are you saying, that fast food workers deserve 15 dollars an hour. Would you say that if you owned the business? Military service is voluntary now> and you can still get killed doing your job. How many fast food workers have been killed on the job. Not counting spilled coffee . How many fast food workers are disabled for life.  think of it like this.

He's not saying that at all.  He's saying no one is being Shanghaied.

[ws23rt]

Another way to think about this issue is WIW. We use that a lot here talking cars.

An entry level job already has a mandated minimum wage. (which is not market generated). The unnatural/artificial wage is funded by those that have jobs and spend money for that service. This is taking from those that are more skilled and giving it to those that are less skilled. A clear disincentive to learn and improve ones productivity.

If some outside force raised the prices of our cars that would not raise the value of them. Our cars sell for what the market allows.
A higher minimum price for a running project (for example) would only reduce the number of hobbyist's that can have one. Buyers would be fewer as would be sellers. Stagnation?

Robin Hood's method of helping works kinda ok until those that "have" have been tapped out.

[ws23rt]

It is rational to think that raising a mandated minimum wage to a point that would put one in upper class of wage earners would be wrong. No?
Why would that be wrong? It is the same reason that mandating any increase is.

If a mandated decrease in minimum wage to (let's say one dollar per hour) were to be established. Would that be wrong?

The negative is clear on both sides.---Just a little bit of a mandate is just a little bit of wrong.

My point and my opinion is that any mandate/intervention in the market of human interaction and our effort/freedom to be all that we can be is not served well by intervention (however well intentioned) by our other mother.

I hope this is not so political that we can't discuss it here.----I did talk about price fixing chargers above

[polywideblock]

                                    coming from a country with high minimum wage rate 
 
              http://www.fairwork.gov.au/about-us/policies-and-guides/fact-sheets/minimum-workplace-entitlements/minimum-wages

                                        i'll ask this question how much is a cup of coffee ? over here $6 up     

                            http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/food/dollar-cup-of-coffee-are-we-paying-too-much/story-fneuz92c-1226613029204

                          just something to think about ,as wages go up so does the price of   EVERYTHING   

[ws23rt]

                                   coming from a country with high minimum wage rate  
 
             http://www.fairwork.gov.au/about-us/policies-and-guides/fact-sheets/minimum-workplace-entitlements/minimum-wages

                                       i'll ask this question how much is a cup of coffee ? over here $6 up      

                           http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/food/dollar-cup-of-coffee-are-we-paying-too-much/story-fneuz92c-1226613029204

                         just something to think about ,as wages go up so does the price of   EVERYTHING    

I haven't bought a cup of coffee from a place like starbucks (for example) for a long time. The price for what I got the last time I did stopped my going there.
As I recall the last time I went to starbucks was about five years ago. It was early morning and all I wanted was a cup of house coffee. They said they had none. How cool is that? A coffee specialist like starbucks that could not give me a cup of coffee.
I went across the street to a gas station and got a good cup of coffee for a dollar.

[Mike DC]

  
These issues are very complicated.


If Walmart's wages are kept so low that their workers rely on the govt for half their living costs, then Walmart is basically getting the taxpayers to cover half the workers' pay.  If the taxpayers weren't covering it then Walmart itself would need to raise pay just to keep their workers alive.  


You could argue that Walmart still doesn't owe their workers a living wage.  That may be, but there are only so many high school kids out there to hire.  

Low-wage jobs have become a much bigger portion of the total workforce than they were 50 years ago.  That changes the situation.  We cannot keep dealing with it like it's only high school kids & part-timers.  I'm not saying we should not, I'm saying we cannot.  We aren't going to sit for millions of people starving in the streets in 2015 so that means we WILL spend money to prevent it, one way or another.  Right now Walmart loves our current way of doing it.  


I'm not saying we should jack the minimum wage up to $15.  I'm not arguing for anything in particular.  I'm just saying look at the indirect & larger effects.  

[stripedelete]

As an employerer, I can tell you , we are not going to have to raise the minuimum wage to $15, it's headed there by itself. 

We have lost a generation to drugs.....   The rest won't come off mom's couch for less than $15 and there are not enough illegals to make up the difference.

Prior to the Great Recession, unemployment of 4% was considered full employment.   I firmly believe 10% is now full employment.

Inflation here we come!

[c00nhunterjoe]

The military life may be voluntary right now, but there is always the possibility of the draft. Then what will we have to say about a burger flipper making double or triple a private? People think the military gets everything spoon fed to them. You really need to turn off fox news if that is your mindset. Yeah, in the past they may have got 100% medical and all those nice allowances, but even back then, it was hiped up to an extent. But today, that is far from the truth. Congress has been cutting and cutting and cutting to try and make some form of budget. They cut soldier pay, soldier benefits, va benefits. You name it, they cut it. I have enlisted friends who now pay more for their "free" army insurance then the low life welfare bums in baltimore city that get it for FREE. Then, those vets are not allowed to go to any joe scmo doctor. They HAVE to go to a va doctor who might not be able to see them fof MONTHS because they are so backed up. And we have not even touched the tip of the iceberg so please dont tell me that our servicemen have got it made and shouldnt complain about burger flippers getting a big pay raise. Youre right, it is apples to oranges, and those apples at mcdonalds are rotted and it stinks.

[Charger-Bodie]

Military service is voluntary, if you chose service for financial reward you didn't choose wisely. And don't forget, military gets three hots and a cot, free medical/dental, commissary, retirement at an early age, etc...so factor that into the wage.

Political office should be voluntary too.

[Mike DC]

  
It is pretty much voluntary at the high levels.  Their official salaries sound lavish to us outsiders but it's not much compared to what most of them could be making in the private sector.  And their campaign costs routinely blow their salaries out of the water.  

High political office appeals to their desire for success & power more than personal wealth.  They do end up wealthy, but they are generally "over it".