Matching this, matching that...

charlie45 · May 06, 2015, 06:30:45 PM

I am probably opening a can of worms here, and this topic has surely been discussed somewhat, but so what I am going to bring it up anyhow...

How important do you guys view the whole matching numbers thing. I am currently building a 68 Charger with a 528 Ray Barton HEMI, many other after-market accessories include a Hotchkis TVS suspension, 4-wheel disc brakes, etc, etc., etc.

I don't have my fender tag, nor a buid sheet... Given the nature of my build, wouldn't it be superfluous to take a matching numbers car and build it this way?

In other words, how much value does a car like this whether it is or isn't an RT vehicle??

I am looking at 70 Roadrunner, and here everything matches, but that car will be more of a garage queen, the other one is more to be driven hard... I am just curious how you guys view the whole RT/matching#s thing on a project build like that...?

Back N Black · May 06, 2015, 06:42:11 PM

Me personally, don't care about numbers matching. The only numbers I'm concerned about is torque and horsepower.

skip68 · May 06, 2015, 07:19:29 PM

The way I see it is like this.
If you already have a numbers matching car don't modify it unless it's a nothing base model.

If you don't have numbers matching, do whatever you want unless it's a HEMI.

303 Mopar · May 06, 2015, 09:11:28 PM

Quote from: skip68 on May 06, 2015, 07:19:29 PM
The way I see it is like this.
If you already have a numbers matching car don't modify it unless it's a nothing base model.

If you don't have numbers matching, do whatever you want unless it's a HEMI.

RT, 440, HEMI, 1 of whatever cars should be saved as is, or pull and store the motor and trans and drop in something else. Non-matching or even matching 318 base cars that they made 100,000 of who cares - modify it the way you want because its your car. I would rather have a car to enjoy and drive than a garage or trailer queen any day.

Ghoste · May 06, 2015, 09:27:18 PM

Do what you want but understand one thing, if you go to sell it and its modified, almost NO ONE will care to reimburse you for your trouble. I've been working in the classic car auction business for a long time now and customs almost never ever ever bring the money that was spent on them. Your vision of the car is your vision even if its the flavor of the day (such as the resto mod or pro touring fads) and very few people share your exact vision. The other customizers want to do one their way. The record prices are set nearly every single time by the factory stock stuff.
I really do mean to make the car so you enjoy it, I'm just saying don't make those modifications under the idea that you are "investing" in the car or improving its value.

1974dodgecharger · May 06, 2015, 09:57:17 PM

What ghoste said........I laugh at people who do resto mods put x amount of dollars then ask for double their trouble. A stock pure matching numbers vehicle will always be worth than a resto mod. Look at all the resto mods people dumped over 100k and get only 50k.

In the end its your car do what u want with it......

Mike DC · May 07, 2015, 08:00:24 AM

There is one exception to the "customs are money losers" principle - taking a desirable bodystyle and cloning a 318 car into a hotter factory model like a (stock looking) Hemi car.

It still probably won't be a profitable investment per se. But at least you will probably get paid back most/all of what the upgrade cost you.

Ghoste · May 07, 2015, 08:36:10 AM

Yeah, I'd agree partially and depending on what you do. Clones were hot hot back around 2007 but a LOT of guys got stuck with overpriced ones once the dust settled. A well done RT clone can keep you from losing your shirt but when guys start going all the way with coil over front ends and tubular control arms and four wheel discs and Tremecs and change out the seats and gauges and so forth it just seems to be an uphill battle to get them sold. Just my own experience and its by no means the bellwether for all cars, but on average I would say cars taken a long way from stock typically bid to about half of the reserve. At best they go to two thirds and every once in a while hit the mark. Its a tough deal because a lot of the customized stuff has had serious money thrown at the car and many of them are well crafted too. Some are just walking a credit card through an aftermarket catalog but some are really well done.
Its a niche market I suppose, not unlike vintage race cars.

hollywood1336 · May 07, 2015, 10:10:19 AM

I beg to differ here guys, and I'm not pulling my own chain, but I have a hard offer on my car for 90k, I get a call off the guy once a week asking if I'm ready to sell. I had an offer of a 130k at Del Mar, pretty high up there and I know, all here say until the cash is in hand. I have 52k into my build, including the price of the original car from the clowns at Texas Toy Box, and as I have said previously, about 4k of that money was screw up money. The feedback I get out here is that people love the restomods, they love the originality of the classic lines blended with the new equipment interiors and running gear. I'm in 100% agreement, numbers matching RT's with 383's, 440's and Hemi's are a piece of history and have to be preserved, but I have also seen restomods command some pretty big numbers at these auctions as well.
Now the other case in point, in the thread, "Awesome First Cruise Night" the guy with the brown/root beer 69 Charger told me he has 300k into that build, a beautiful stunning car, but 300k, talk about money pit. If you are willing to pay stupid money to have a car built and are silly enough to think you might get it back if and when you decide to sell, dream on.
The money I've been offered for mine wouldn't cover my labor but it would certainly encourage me to build another, if I decided to sell it. But people do love the restomods and as far as I can see the restomod fad is here to stay, at least on the west coast.

BrianShaughnessy · May 07, 2015, 10:29:55 AM

I do not own and do not care to own a #s matching car.

triple_green · May 07, 2015, 10:32:26 AM

Quote from: skip68 on Yesterday at 06:19:29 PM
The way I see it is like this.
If you already have a numbers matching car don't modify it unless it's a nothing base model.

If you don't have numbers matching, do whatever you want unless it's a HEMI.

For the most part numbers matching cars hold their value over a larger demand base.

Mods vary with individual taste and may not have consistent resale value.

I still think modified and updated Chargers are cool (usually).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

That being said, my car is numbers matching down to the carb and radiator level and I chose to paint it the correct factory 66-1 green. (I know if is only a 383-4 car)

But sometimes I get the hankering to put in a built 440 4-speed and paint it black.

Dreamcar · May 07, 2015, 11:18:06 AM

A rare high-dollar numbers matching car I would not modify. All stock.

A very high-volume small block...anything goes.

I'm rebuilding a numbers matching 383 '69 with decent options on the tag (A/C, tow package, cruise control, power windows, rocker moldings). I plan on repainting it the original outside color (Q5 with white vinyl top), original color interior, adding some chassis stiffening, probably 17s, slightly stiffer suspension (but nothing made for auto-crossing), disc brakes (factory power drums on all four), some 3.73 or 3.91s with a Gear Vendorz OD, and a very modest bump in HP. But besides that, no major modifications that can't be undone if someone desires. I guess I see my own car as in between "do whatever" and "keep it stock".

lloyd3 · May 07, 2015, 11:24:34 AM

Even the numbers matching cars aren't necessarily so. All these cars are nearing 50-years old now, and many (if not most) have well-over 100 thousand miles on them. In order to keep a vehicle on the road, many (if not all) of the original components that they came with have had to be replaced over the years. Everything from brakes to seats to door hinges have been replaced by now (just ask the folks in Cuba how this works?). There is a spectrum of cars out there that ranges from nearly-mint original to the almost unrecognizable. The few NOS parts that were available are now mostly used up, so folks who own (or want) one of these cars just do the best they can to get or keep them drive-able, and everything from the aftermarket to actual donor cars are used to fill that void.

The way I see it is this: the car either looks "stock" or it doesn't. It may or may-not be an R/T, and this matters to some, but not all. The market will sort out what a particular version is worth. There seems to very few "originial" type cars coming onto the market these days. Most of what I see are highly modified, and they all seem to sell at pretty good numbers. Nothing is cheap anymore, and you can chalk that up to the "price of having something different". Just loosely looking around, I'm seeing a price range from around $25k to $75k depending on overall condition and originality. Hemi-cars are in their own stratosphere and don't really affect the general market. California seems to be in it's own market as well; prices of things there are hard to fathom for me. There is an "easy-come....easy-go" attitude there that the rest of the country doesn't seem to share.

2592 creston · May 07, 2015, 12:22:46 PM

While I agree resto-mods are bringing fairly good money, anyone can copy a resto-mod down to the last bolt...no one can replace an original numbers matching car!!!!

tcs69rt · May 07, 2015, 01:40:05 PM

Funny that last night I was looking at pics of my 440 vin# stamp on the block and I see this post today. Three years ago I went out and bought another 440 and trans from a 78 Warlock so I could take the matching #s drivetrain out and "pickle" it. My reasoning is for the value if I ever sold the car and I would have to be extremely desperate for that to happen. Still have not built the other 440 (kids college bill takes priority) but don't want to destroy the original motor either.

Back in 95 I never wanted a matching #s car, I had a spare motor and 4 speed ready and was looking for a base model 69 to make my own custom car. But 20 years ago the original family owner approached me and asked if I would pay for a paint job on a 70 Chevelle he had? If I did he would sign the Charger title over to me, his paint job cost me less than the original MSRP for a running and registered 69 Charger RT. So, I kinda fell into the matching numbers crowd.

A few months after getting the car in 95, I got offers of 32 and another for 34 grand. I caught alot of shit from non car people about turning down the big offers but who cares...I still have the car.

How many of you can say that you got your Charger "A full head of hair ago" HAHA!

69rtse4spd · May 07, 2015, 02:01:14 PM

I can, still have some thin stuff on top, ha. The three 69 S.E., two of them 4-speeds are all orignal, won't change much, motor upgreads mostly. That is why I bought a 70, to play with, 383 4-bbl. was gone so put a 446 six pack in it. Put a Dana 60 with 3.73 & one day the Hemi 4-speed with the overdrive gears in it, just wainting for the auto to go. So do what you want, it's your car.

lloyd3 · May 07, 2015, 02:40:15 PM

tcs69rt: Good looking R/T! You ever come down off of the mountain?

tcs69rt · May 07, 2015, 03:49:08 PM

lloyd3: Actually, no the car has not left Teller county. I don't enter car shows, not a trophy hunter. I was briefly part of the Cruiser above the Clouds car club, but they were into community service and raising money. I quit them right before Dennis Gage showed up to film the event in Woodland Park for his show My Classic Car. I want to turn wrenches and when I discovered that 1/2 of the members did not even own a car...it was time to go.

Plus I don't have enough time to give to any club these days. I have seen some Mopars at the Thin Air Nats in Green Mtn Falls every summer in July.

Troy · May 07, 2015, 05:18:09 PM

In general, I like to see original cars (at least the rare ones) stay that way. The law of averages says you should be able to find a base model in similar condition a lot easier and for much less money. So, if you're going to heavily modify a car why overpay up front? The final product (heavily modified) will not be valued more or less because of its pedigree. I think it gets fuzzy when you do "light' modifications such as bigger wheels/tires, disc brakes, Holley carb, tinted windows, stripes, etc. Basically anything that's easy to return to stock *OR* factory parts that could have come on the car stock. These generally won't increase the value at all and will really only hurt value a lot when the car is worth a lot bone stock (factory Hemi, etc). Adding certain factory appearing parts (ie making a "clone") often does increase the value of a base model car - if done right. A 4-speed swap is a great example. However, you may not always get more out of it than what you put in. I am aware that certain modified cars have brought a lot of money - but most were very high quality (so they'd be expensive any way) and the right buyer happened to be looking at exactly the right time.

Troy

Brock Lee · May 07, 2015, 06:19:11 PM

Quote from: hollywood1336 on May 07, 2015, 10:10:19 AM
I beg to differ here guys, and I'm not pulling my own chain, but I have a hard offer on my car for 90k, I get a call off the guy once a week asking if I'm ready to sell. I had an offer of a 130k at Del Mar, pretty high up there and I know, all here say until the cash is in hand.

Well, to be fair, it is true. It is all tire kicking until the sale goes through. But in your case, lets hypothetically say the guy would actually go through with the sale...that does not mean the market value of your car is $90K. It means that you found the one guy willing to pay $90K for your car. Just like the BJ auctions where a car manages to hit a ridiculous price that grabs everyones attention, then is brought back and only manages to get a fraction of what it did before.

Numbers matching only really means something on cars that are of high interest and collectability in their stock form. It really doesn't matter on these 318 cars. A true survivor 318 Charger numbers matching will be collectable for different reasons, but few are interested in paying big bucks for meticulously restored to dead stock 318 Chargers. So few people build them. In doing a full blown restoration, a 318 car costs just as much to restore as a 440 car.

lloyd3 · May 07, 2015, 08:09:37 PM

tcs69rt: Don't blame you, traffic down here is nuts anymore. I've had mine as far as Bailey to visit a gunsmith friend and get some lunch last Fall. It was in September, early in the week and mid-morning. Traffic wasn't too-bad then, but with a 4-gear and pulling 3:54s, I wasn't going much faster than 60 for most of it. On a 6-lane highway these days, you're the slowpoke at 60. Years ago, I took it to Deckers for a Spring fishing event by way of Conifer. Fun, but once was enough. Unfortunately, it has become something of an attractive nuisance anymore, so it doesn't go very far from the house. Short hops and fast food are the primary use these days.

charlie45 · May 07, 2015, 09:38:23 PM

Quote from: Back N Black on May 06, 2015, 06:42:11 PM
Me personally, don't care about numbers matching. The only numbers I'm concerned about is torque and horsepower.

I like this philosophy best!

You all make valid points... I guess it simply boils down to: If you want an investment than make sure that all numbers match and the history is traceable bla bla etc etc, but if its a resto-mod, don't expect a return on your investment, but be happy if you get one...

At the end of the day, the moment is what counts with these cars, and I can't wait to crank up that 528 Hemi...

Alaskan_TA · May 07, 2015, 10:13:22 PM

Numbers matching has value - but it is not always about monetary value.

Respect for history comes in to play for me. I have two 318 cars that are numbers matching & they have made it 45 years without losing their original numbered components, so out of respect for that, they will not be changed while I own them.

They are fun to drive exactly as they were built, that is where the true value is for me, it has nothing to do with money.

bull · May 08, 2015, 12:23:30 AM

If I bought a Charger that had no running gear and half the interior missing the sky would be the limit for modification.

If I bought a Charger that was 95% original I would be 95% inclined to retain that originality.

myk · May 08, 2015, 03:35:55 AM

It's your car man, do what you want to with it. Who cares about other people's opinions and the "value" when you're trying to chase your own vision. And, judging by the way you titled your thread I don't think you really care about originality either; not with this car anyway...

don duick · May 08, 2015, 03:45:30 AM

Technically a RT by todays standards is no big Deal. More fun to have a non RT and modify it mechanically to bring it up to todays standards. Leave the appearance stock, trying to change anything here is like reinventing the wheel.

1974dodgecharger · May 08, 2015, 03:50:55 AM

If u want to make money rebuild a Chevy......holy cow they r so cheap to make and sell......

Ghoste · May 08, 2015, 05:05:42 AM

Or a Mustang.

myk · May 08, 2015, 06:22:57 AM

Yeah, and then you can blend right in with the yawn and shine crowd with all of the other Mustangs and Chevy's...

Ghoste · May 08, 2015, 06:57:49 AM

Exactly.

I never was into this as a way of making money.

303 Mopar · May 08, 2015, 07:27:30 AM

Quote from: 1974dodgecharger on May 08, 2015, 03:50:55 AM
If u want to make money rebuild a Chevy......holy cow they r so cheap to make and sell......

Everything for Mopar is 3x Chevy and Ford, and harder to find. For the $$ I spent on my 408 stroker in my '71 Challenger, I could have had 3 Chevy 350's. But I would still rather be the only '68 Charger, or '70 Cuda at the show rather than "oh, there's another '67 Mustang/Camaro".

charlie45 · May 08, 2015, 08:13:40 AM

well, to say I don't care based on the title of this thread would be wrong....

If I didn't care at all, I wouldn't have posed the question in the first place...

Its natural to ask particularly when the bills start adding up: Ray Barton Hemi for over 20k, numerous summit part orders for 5-10k, and let me not begin with the topic paint/body work...

So no matter how much money you have, you generally never want to feel like you're doing something completely idiotic (at least that's how I feel...) Despite that I am very passionate about my cars, and particularly now this build...!

So when I see the value of classic cars and how prices have developed over the past years, than it is normal to ask this question and how relevant the whole "matching this and matching that is..."

Challenger340 · May 08, 2015, 10:11:29 AM

So, it would seem that from the majority of imput on this topic, most feel "numbers" type rare HEMI, R/T or R/T SE cars should be maintained mostly original and be preserved, especially if they are still "surviving" type examples ?
and,
that modifications and the "do as you want" mindset, should be relegated to non-numbers or 318 Cars ?

Just confirms what I pretty much already knew ? that I am a glorified JANITOR, or rather "curator" if I wish to maintain best value in the asset.

I knew there was a reason I went to great lengths finding a vintage set of O.E.M., no longer made P225 70R 14 BFG Radial TA's from the 1990's, so as to leave the original 14" Magnum 500 road wheels intact, with a 27.5" diameter tire instead of go cart 14" tires.(These Cars look retarded with small diameter tires, but that's all left out there these days).

Too funny, the current P225 70R 14's on it were dated 1984(worn rears).

hollywood1336 · May 08, 2015, 10:37:02 AM

I think there has been a lot of good input in this thread, except for the suggestion at buying Chevy's or Ford's.
Alaskan_TA has two original 318 cars which I think is brilliant. Mine was originally a 318 car, but to restore it as a 318 car (based on the condition it was in) made no sense for the amount of money I was going to dump into it. Having said that, my 318 motor ran like a sewing machine. If it had been in great condition I wouldn't have touched it.
I built and own my dream car for me. Just because some guy offered big $ for it doesn't mean that's what it's worth ,it only meant he has more money that sense. I definitely didn't build it to sell.
In the end it's your decision and your money, being a Mopar you better have a big budget, but in the end, whatever direction you take, I'm sure you will love the result. Your opinion is the only one that matters.

HeavyFuel · May 08, 2015, 12:39:45 PM

Quote from: Alaskan_TA on May 07, 2015, 10:13:22 PM
Numbers matching has value - but it is not always about monetary value.

Respect for history comes in to play for me. I have two 318 cars that are numbers matching & they have made it 45 years without losing their original numbered components, so out of respect for that, they will not be changed while I own them.

They are fun to drive exactly as they were built, that is where the true value is for me, it has nothing to do with money.

Right on.....I have the same philosphy.

Will my numbers motor sit in a tub of Cosmoline while I flog an under-the-hood stunt double? Not likely.

Although, having a secondary goal of a having a better running/safer machine, I've upgraded/modified certain parts as necessary. Like installing a reliable modern dizzy to replace the points system. Rebuilt Firm Feel steering box. Stuff like that.

Ghoste · May 08, 2015, 07:29:54 PM

I have to admit I'm guilty of the stunt double engine.

myk · May 08, 2015, 08:50:55 PM

Quote from: charlie45 on May 08, 2015, 08:13:40 AM
well, to say I don't care based on the title of this thread would be wrong....

If I didn't care at all, I wouldn't have posed the question in the first place...

Its natural to ask particularly when the bills start adding up: Ray Barton Hemi for over 20k, numerous summit part orders for 5-10k, and let me not begin with the topic paint/body work...

So no matter how much money you have, you generally never want to feel like you're doing something completely idiotic (at least that's how I feel...) Despite that I am very passionate about my cars, and particularly now this build...!

So when I see the value of classic cars and how prices have developed over the past years, than it is normal to ask this question and how relevant the whole "matching this and matching that is..."

Many people who post in message boards do so because they're trying to get public justification and approval from others so they can feel more righteous about their decisions. There's nothing wrong with that, I do it all the time, as I usually know the answer to my own questions but still seeking input. I was speculating that this was your angle as well.

But like Ghoste has said, classic cars can never be about money. It's a financially irresponsible and emotionally reckless way to go about it. Therefore, just follow your heart and do what you want to, public opinion and future fiscal concerns be damned...

MxRacer855 · May 08, 2015, 09:47:24 PM

I agree with everyone.
I have a base model 383 with a non-numbers matching motor, and didn't feel the least bit bad about building the car the way I want it.
I'm definitely putting 6 digits into this car whether it comes close to bringing in the money or not. I definitely have no intent on ever getting anything even close to what I'm putting into it, but with that (like all of us have said), I don't ever plan on selling the car.
It makes me happy to build it this way, and that's the only way I've ever wanted to do it... so I am. Regardless of value down the road. Unless it's an R/T or Hemi... no loss.

Jeff

Ghoste · May 09, 2015, 08:16:14 AM

And the great thing about the car hobby is that there is room for all.

MxRacer855 · May 09, 2015, 08:39:17 AM

Quote from: Ghoste on May 09, 2015, 08:16:14 AM
And the great thing about the car hobby is that there is room for all.

Well put ghoste!

Despite how untasteful some builds may be... we can respect them all.

Jeff

charlie45 · May 09, 2015, 01:58:33 PM

Quote from: Ghoste on May 09, 2015, 08:16:14 AM
And the great thing about the car hobby is that there is room for all.

given you have a large enough garage and wallet...

Pedal2Metal · May 09, 2015, 03:54:00 PM

The Yellow 70 Charger you see here was a Ray Barton Hemi, mod front end, dana rear end, ac added, really done well, originally a 318, no fender tag. Sold it at Mecum in January and did not get my money back. Short about 10% plus I had transport and auction cost. I have a numbers matching 69 Shelby where I took the original block and innards out, pickled them, and then replaced with new and put the original heads, intake, carb, etc back on. This way I feel better about driving it and getting it on now and then. My 71 Hemi Cuda 4 Speed Vert is not all original (duh), but almost all NOS parts, and it's worth more than I have in it. I agree with the general view that the "rarer" the car the more you should ("must" in some people's view) leave it alone. And let's say you have a good 440 car but no fender tag, no biggie, get the factory details on the car from the VIN (not always but often available) and get a repop fender tag made, and try to leave the car stock or at least such that you can "put it back to stock" (i.e. don't cut it and don't throw stuff away or sell it off the car). If you have a kinda plain jane car, and you wanna mod it, then try to save any "rarer" or key "matching" stuff that you plan on taking off (like radio, ac, tranny, block, wheels) and keep for the future. Just my two cents. I believe in individual property rights too, so do what you want. But it would be sad, or a tragedy, depending on the car, to not respect its provenance.

c00nhunterjoe · May 09, 2015, 09:39:09 PM

My right tires match my left. I think thats about where my numbers matching ends.....

1974dodgecharger · May 10, 2015, 12:31:43 AM

If we are talking about being a curator (janitor) and maintain values on these cars I guess I be a junk yard owner Im decreasing the value of my car on my 68 by adding aftermarket items to it, lol.

Ghoste · May 10, 2015, 01:43:37 AM

Who knows, the next owner might see all your changes as adding value.

cavemanno1 · May 10, 2015, 06:37:06 AM

I for one don't care about the numbers but over here in Hungary the authorities demand to have a classic car with number matching drivetrain.Crazy but i can not even change the points out for electronic ignition even tho it would improve driveability or put a 440 into a 383 car!Last year they BANNED all American cars with red indicators but in order to register them the cars have to be just like they came from the factory meaning with red indicators!Now they changed this and these cars can only be driven(legally) in bright daylight or with someone escorting them!

Make no sense but they do what the hell they want over here!No disk brake or a original drum car,might get away with an auto converted to 4 speed if 4 speed was available in that year but trans has to be date correct!I mean come on why the hell would they want a car to the tinyest details since they never actually seen one!My '69 charger was the only one ever in the country,ever!I would understand not to fit new gen engines in it or go crazily modified since they want to preserve the car originality but with red taillight and electronic ignition being a problem is over my understanding!
You guys don't how lucky you are over there!

1974dodgecharger · May 10, 2015, 07:20:35 AM

Quote from: cavemanno1 on May 10, 2015, 06:37:06 AM
I for one don't care about the numbers but over here in Hungary the authorities demand to have a classic car with number matching drivetrain.Crazy but i can not even change the points out for electronic ignition even tho it would improve driveability or put a 440 into a 383 car!Last year they BANNED all American cars with red indicators but in order to register them the cars have to be just like they came from the factory meaning with red indicators!Now they changed this and these cars can only be driven(legally) in bright daylight or with someone escorting them! Make no sense but they do what the hell they want over here!No disk brake or a original drum car,might get away with an auto converted to 4 speed if 4 speed was available in that year but trans has to be date correct!I mean come on why the hell would they want a car to the tinyest details since they never actually seen one!My '69 charger was the only one ever in the country,ever!I would understand not to fit new gen engines in it or go crazily modified since they want to preserve the car originality but with red taillight and electronic ignition being a problem is over my understanding!
You guys don't how lucky you are over there!

HOLY COW!!! You can say all the, 'matching numbers' are overseas

Ghoste · May 10, 2015, 08:59:35 AM

What would you put other than the red?

MxRacer855 · May 10, 2015, 10:48:55 AM

Quote from: c00nhunterjoe on May 09, 2015, 09:39:09 PM
My right tires match my left. I think thats about where my numbers matching ends.....

cavemanno1 · May 10, 2015, 03:04:32 PM

Quote from: Ghoste on May 10, 2015, 08:59:35 AM
What would you put other than the red?

Sorry meant to say indicator!All cars has amber indicator here!

cavemanno1 · May 10, 2015, 03:24:12 PM

HOLY COW!!! You can say all the, 'matching numbers' are overseas

[/quote]

Not all of them because they only require matching numbers here in Hungary and there is only one '68 and '70 charger here!No '69 charger at all even tho every musclecar guys' dream car is a second gen charger!But for the price of these cars you can buy a 3 bedroom flat and most people even struggle to pay for their place.People who could afford them buy brand new BMW,Audi,mustangs or hummers!

People think I'm an "idiot" because I'd ratter buy a 47 year old charger than buy a BMW or Audi.My first car was a '69 charger and the second will be a '68

Wife has a daily driver that's worth 1k maybe!Everybody has their view of life but when yours is different from the rest then you are strange.

Nowhere else in Europe,to my knowledge,they require matching numbers!

Ghoste · May 10, 2015, 09:33:03 PM

Ah, I get it now.

lloyd3 · May 11, 2015, 10:41:01 PM

Is it fair to say a car is matching numbers if it still has it's fender tag, original block and transmission case? None of the rest of it matters?

Bob T · May 12, 2015, 01:59:15 AM

My first left hook was a 68 318 Charger with column shift buddy seat in RR1 with a white vinyl top and beautiful original red interior. It was a low mile low owner solid Texas car and it ran like a train. But, I wanted more power so the correct thing for me to do was to sell it as it got to 43 years old without being molested and it was just too cool to chop it around and big block it. The new owner fells the same way.

After a year without a car I found this black one, I had originally only wanted a factory BB car with the BB drive train but this R/T was available. The motor is original and the numbers trans was packed in the trunk with a shift kitted 69 trans fitted. It was cool that the original motor was in it but not a deal breaker for me.
I'm intending to keep if fairly stock with a bit more power, makes 420 at the crank now and I've done nearly 10,000 miles since I've got it legal.
To me the real value is in driving away on family trips, cruising and hanging with fellow petrolhead buddies, cost and numbers matching numbers be damned

Ghoste · May 12, 2015, 05:16:26 AM

Lloyd, to me personally that would be numbers matching. No idea what the majority think.

mightywing7 · May 12, 2015, 05:29:51 AM

Lloyd, I concur with Ghoste on the drivetrain and would add the matching body (numbers located on the dash vin plate as well as the corresponding numbers on the radiator yoke and the trunk sill).

Challenger340 · May 12, 2015, 09:43:20 AM

A little off topic but......
What is the point of supposedly "numbers matching", if the point being of maintaining such cars is then "originality"....
when,
so many of them get their "correct" #'s Engines rebuilt INCORRECTLY, and are indeed GUTLESS WONDERS ! nowhere near the original performance ?

I mean WHO CARES what numbers are there ? if it can't emulate the factory original "performance" ?

This happens so often with 440 builds it is absolutely STUPID.... because of the lack of an actual "correct" Piston for the 68-70 440 Magnum Engines.
(the replacement pistons listed in the catalogs are wrong)

lloyd3 · May 12, 2015, 06:30:46 PM

I think, for all intents and purposes, that is how it is used. Seems like a pretty low-bar until you remember how few cars can still make that claim. It is definitely a value modifier of 20 to 30%, and maybe even more.

Ghoste · May 12, 2015, 08:35:48 PM

Most of the high dollar numbers matching cars likely don't get used for their original purpose anyway.

ODZKing · May 12, 2015, 08:47:13 PM

Many times "matching number" cars are not 100% matching numbers unless it is a survivor and not driven much.
Hard to find a 100% matching numbers car in good condition. Same as it is hard to find a true survivor.
My 67 was all there when we purchased it. So when we restored it I kept it as close as possible. But electronic ignition, different wheels, and its no longer matching numbers by definition.
But I agree with most everything said here. If it is near to original, I'd keep it that way. But as we always say, it's your car, do what you want.

Ghoste · May 13, 2015, 09:46:40 AM

Where do you stop and start right? Personally I would never get bent out of shape about ignition and wheels. I'd say 80% or better of the guys I see at auctions who want numbers matching are mostly worried that the engine block is the numbers matching one. There are another 20% who seem to want the trans to match too and out of all of them there are about 70% that want a good paper trail too.
Someplace else is different I'm sure.

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