Pushrods breaking... valves sticking?

[Calif240]

Hey guys.. so I posted this last year... http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,110090.0.html

I'm having the same problem again now. I'm having pushrods getting thrown from the rockers. They were assembled the first time by a pretty knowledgeable guy from what I thought. They got re-inspected a second time and "fixed" by a speed shop in town that said that it seemed like the keepers on the rockers weren't tightened down (that was all they could think of other than valves getting hung up). Anyway, the same thing is happening where it is either the pushrods getting thrown and then the cylinders are still trying to fire but not opening valves all the way, or it is that I've got something seriously wrong with the valve train...

The only thing is that two different shops looked at the pushrod lengths, diameter, rocker arms, keepers, etc, and no one has found anything. I'm thinking it has to do with hard acceleration or otherwise. My thought is that valves are getting hung open either from the heads being older (despite being refinished) or that the valves aren't performing well with this combination. I'm half tempted to just get new edelbrock aluminums instead of these 906s.

Any thoughts or suggestions on what might be going on here? I"m really frustrated as the nice weather is here, I had all my winter work done and now she's shop-bound again or spending $2k on a new set of heads.

[Calif240]

As a note... they looked at valve guides, trimmed them down to be sure they weren't interfering, verified pushrods set properly with hydraulic lifters (scorpion lifters), checked the dimensions of the pushrods, checked clearance, checked diameter, they also checked valve springs and proper pressure. Somethings wrong here....

[BSB67]

When exactly is it happening?  While you are driving, or does it seem to happen during or shortly after start-up?  If you put it away happy, but the problem occurs after start-up, it could be the lifters.  If that is the case, heavier oil might help, longer pushrod ( or adjust them deeper into the cup) or new lifters.  Have you talked to anyone at Scorpion?

[Calif240]

I can't tell for sure when it is happening to be honest, but I don't hear anything at startup. Scorpion of course sats their lifters are good. They were given a full inspection and all at the speed shop. I'm also using sae 40 brad penn, per the engine builder. I'm going to have to pull a head, so I'll have the guide clearance checked. I'm just wondering if it isor economical to go ahead and get new aluminum heads knowing that was the plan over the next several years.

[b5blue]

   My 440 did likewise after the valve guides wore out.    If your certain they are okay are the springs "compressed height" compatible with cam lift?    I'm saving for a set of these:  http://www.mopartsracing.com/parts/Sidewinder.html   Call and talk to Todd he's great to deal with.

[firefighter3931]

   My 440 did likewise after the valve guides wore out.    If your certain they are okay are the springs "compressed height" compatible with cam lift?    I'm saving for a set of these:  http://www.mopartsracing.com/parts/Sidewinder.html   Call and talk to Todd he's great to deal with.

Terry, sorry to hear that you're having these issues...again ! 

I think it's time to upgrade the heads to a nice and light high flowing aluminum casting. The Sidewinder heads are getting lots of positive feedback and the price is definitely right. These heads are available in several configurations ; bare or with valves or complete. I'd send them your valvesprings and have them installed with the std valves and have a valvejob done and have them check the guide clearance while they're at it. 

You'll pick up a bunch of power and reliability while losing some weight off the nose of the car. There are no downsides. 



Ron


Ps. What headers are you using on the car ? If I remember correctly you have the TTI's ? That being the case, the angled plug Sidewinders will work perfectly with the TTI's

[fy469rtse]

Terry,
sorry to hear your still having troubles,
just makes me think , only time I ever spat any push rods, I was giving the car everything it had , stock 440 , stock springs couldn't take the punishment,
rev's way past spring limits
so valve bounce and spat some push rods
What springs are in the heads , ? was this posted in your original thread,
geoff

[Musicman]

I'm thinking it has to do with hard acceleration or otherwise.

If it's happening during or after reving the engine, you could be winding the engine RPM up to high, to a point where your hydraulic lifters can no longer keep up.... valve toss.

[Calif240]

Hey guys... Thanks for the replies... The springs are comp matched for the hydraulic cam. What it "appears" Is that the valves are sticking. The reason I say this, is that I've noticed the same pushrods are thrown this time. I need to try to check the size on the valve guides. They are trimmed, but aren't refinished w bronze sleeves. They are the stock 906 heads. But this is the second time and the valve train otherwise was checked out twice by local shops. They didn't check the valve guides other than for the amount of lift... I'm looking at ordering those sidewinders... The guy that I talked to (Todd?) was nice and knowledgable and I'll just have the match to my rockers and springs... Good price and good numbers on flow... Will update again soon...

[ACUDANUT]

Are you sure the rocker arms and spacers are in the correct position.

[Calif240]

They appear to be and were installed the same way by both shops. I'll try to post a shot.

[ACUDANUT]

There is such thing as a left and right rockers on a factory set up.  I am talking about one side (head) I don't know if a photo will do because you can't see the bottom of the rockers to know for sure.

[Calif240]

I've not heard of that before, but I'm a pretty young novice still learning quite a bit. Can I look under the rockers to see if there is a marking?
Thanks,
Terry

[ACUDANUT]

No numbers, Just indentions where the pushrod end resides. Ask Firefighter for a pic. He is a better wrench than I.

[Calif240]

Here is the cam and springs that were installed, by the way... the springs are the recommended COMP ones, linked at the bottom of this cam spec.

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=722&sb=2

The lifters are Scorpion and seem to be fine everytime I pull a head and were inspected last time this happened. The valves are stock size, new stainless steel. But the valve guides are the original stock ones, just height shaved down for the high lift of .500+.

I've contacted Todd at Marsh Performance for those Sidewinders. I'm going to order a set and have the porting and polishing done and valve-job. If you have any other recommendations to do at that time, I'm all ears. He says about 3 weeks out, so I'll post pictures of the new heads once they come in assuming all else goes as planned.

Thanks,
Terry