10 years all cars, 'HAVE' to have 54mpg?

[moparjohn]

WE ARE DOOMED! or at least I am.

[Mike DC]

This right here is more disturbing if it proves to be a future trend.
http://mashable.com/2015/03/17/elon-musk-nvidia/

I've been thinking this for years.  Once cars can self-drive the clock is ticking on our human driving rights.  People will gladly trade away just about anything for more safety these days.  

They don't have to make it flat-out illegal just to render human drivers a thing of the past.  The insurance industry could push the optional human-license insurance rates so high that it's not affordable/practical for most.  That would do the job.  Once a generation grows up without ever having the right to drive, and not missing it, the war will basically be lost.  

[Ghoste]

Heard a guy on a Detroit radio station just two days ago spouting off about how Michigan needs to raise taxes immediately to get money for working on potholes and then mandate self driving cars too.

[Stevearino]

They still have some major hurdles to clear with the self driving technology such as the fact that they still can't figure out how to make these cars drive in the rain or other inclement conditions. I'd say that was a pretty big deal. As far as a generation that does not drive  that is already happening. While we all could not wait to get behind the wheel it seems that young people today could care less about getting their licence and buying a car.

[Ghoste]

They are in constant contact with their friends anyway, we had to go to a "hangout" and find each other to (gasp) speak face to face.  Plus the cost is crazy.  If their parents want to subsidize, great, but few can afford to buy, maintain, fuel and most of all insure their own car as a teen today.

[draftingmonkey]

So much has been added to new cars, that even as we make the engines more efficient, it still doesn't help. The weight of the basic automobile has gone down, but all the added electronics and safety items make cars heavier than ever. Take the Challenger, the body metal is so thin it bends if you blow on it to hard, yet the new models weigh about 800 lbs more now than they did when first introduced way back.  Heck you can't even find a small truck anymore.  Remember when all the Japanese makers had small trucks, now they are almost as big and inefficient as their American counterparts.
I had a 1980 VW Rabbit Diesel. After tuning the mechanical FI with the help on a VW diesel nut, I averaged 35 mpg in town and 50+ mpg on the fwy at 65.  May not have have a lot of power but it sure was easy on the wallet of a starving student.  My buddy had a VW Diesel pickup that he pushed 70mpg on at fwy speeds.
All the new technology in the last 40 years is negated by all the new technology.

[Stevearino]

They are in constant contact with their friends anyway, we had to go to a "hangout" and find each other to (gasp) speak face to face.  Plus the cost is crazy.  If their parents want to subsidize, great, but few can afford to buy, maintain, fuel and most of all insure their own car as a teen today.

The part about them being in constant contact is certainly true. I have read several articles though that say that even apart from the cost there is a general feeling of "MEH" about driving with younger people. Just glad I came of age when it was still possible to fall in love with a car. Many colors besides shades of grey to choose from. Even different color interiors. In the 90's car manufacturers made a conscious decision to build not the cars that people would love or hate but the cars that offended people the least. And so it goes. Hats off to Chrysler who ever owns it now for at least building something interesting. It might be the last breath of this sort of thing but it is here for now and we can enjoy it while it lasts.

So much has been added to new cars, that even as we make the engines more efficient, it still doesn't help. The weight of the basic automobile has gone down, but all the added electronics and safety items make cars heavier than ever. Take the Challenger, the body metal is so thin it bends if you blow on it to hard, yet the new models weigh about 800 lbs more now than they did when first introduced way back.  Heck you can't even find a small truck anymore.  Remember when all the Japanese makers had small trucks, now they are almost as big and inefficient as their American counterparts.
I had a 1980 VW Rabbit Diesel. After tuning the mechanical FI with the help on a VW diesel nut, I averaged 35 mpg in town and 50+ mpg on the fwy at 65.  May not have have a lot of power but it sure was easy on the wallet of a starving student.  My buddy had a VW Diesel pickup that he pushed 70mpg on at fwy speeds.
All the new technology in the last 40 years is negated by all the new technology.

They say that the demand for larger heavy vehicles with safety in mind has eaten up all of the technological advancements in fuel efficiency. Who knows how good the mileage would be if the cars could be built to older standards.

[Mike DC]

   
Cars get more expensive -->  fewer younger/single people are buying new cars --> new cars are built towards the priorities of older & wealthier buyers --> cars get heavier, more safety-oriented, and . . . even more expensive.

Snowball.

[ws23rt]

Car makers will build what sells. If the gov. mandates something that won't sell it won't me made. (unless the tax payers make up the loss).

If the cost of fuel just happens to drop and stay down in the middle of a long term plan such as this then the tax on fuel has to rise. This will be needed to make up for loss due to lower fuel cost/need and maintain revenue.

When was the last time we felt extra money in our pocket from a mandated move to help us?---- BTW I just paid my taxes and am not in a good mood.

[green69rt]

I too don't like the taxes, sales tax, license fees (just another tax), income.  The only thing that keeps me sane is to know that I really live in the best country in the world AND all the others probably pay more taxes!!!!

[ACUDANUT]

Yea, we all must drive smart cars. 

[Steve P.]

I look at it like this: 1) I don't drive very much anymore because I cannot afford to. 2) I hope they build cars and trucks one day that are full electric and are charged by driving over some sort of pulse generation built into the roadways. 3) I am happy that we are building cars today that get much better mileage and hope it gets much better.

I look at this like each of us is working on a running car inside of a closed garage. You can get away with this for only so long before you die. If we all were driving cars that get horrible mileage and just dumped loads of crap that our old muscle cars do, we wouldn't live very well or for very long.

I am averaging about 10.5 MPG with my truck now. 100 gallons takes me about 1050 miles at a cost (TODAY) of $2.39 per gallon. $239.00 to drive 1050 miles. If my truck got 54 MPG the same trip would use roughly 20 gallons of gas and only cost me about $48.00.... That's only the CASH COST... Think of the difference in the pollution from both getting it out of the ground and us burning it. 

I am all for technology and saving.

My .02

[ACUDANUT]

 How about steam cars.
Wait, I will just ride my horse to work. 

[Steve P.]

Steam cars would be much less economical. Much more polluting and much more dangerous, but have fun on the horse.... 

[JB400]

Be sure to carry a shovel

[Mike DC]

 
We'll eventually end up running electric cars with small onboard gasoline engines to charge the battery.  IMO this is clearly the best ultimate solution to the mileage problem.  But the industry will waste a bunch of years & billions of dollars trying to make easier stuff work first.

[JB400]

I don't see it as the ultimate solution, as is the environmentalists would prefer that gasoline not be used at all.  But, I will say that it will probably be the most likely solution in nearest terms, considering that is the formula for the Prius, and the other newer hybrids.  Probably the ultimate would be an ion drive system powering a flying car like the Jetsons, but technologically, we're quite a ways a way from accomplishing this at the moment.

[69hemidaytona]

We'll eventually end up running electric cars with small onboard gasoline engines to charge the battery.  IMO this is clearly the best ultimate solution to the mileage problem.  But the industry will waste a bunch of years & billions of dollars trying to make easier stuff work first.

What happens when you want to go on a long trip? The small engine will use more fuel to charge the battery than it would to just run the wheels directly. You'll end up getting less fuel economy than a straight gasoline car made now.

[polywideblock]

seen steam raised as a alternative power source , have you ever been to a "steam show"    

                at least 40% of participants "steam" engines are fuelled by unleaded gas    

and self driving cars are great until billy joe bud decides to fix his new fangled self drivin car "his-self" ... "how hard can it be anyways" ...

[Old Moparz]

The lower gas prices we are seeing are definitely temporary, it's a viscous cycle that isn't going away. There are many reasons we've all discussed before but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the high prices we had a short time ago, some over $5.50/gal were also just to gauge what the consumer was willing to pay. The oil companies, along with other large corporations, don't have any trouble with watching the average consumer bend over & hold their ankles as long as it keeps their stockholders smiling.

I'd like to get much better MPG on what I drive daily but I am stuck with what I have for now. My 2004 Ram gets 9/10 city, never more than 16/17 highway & wasn't intended to be my daily ride, it was for towing. It has been paid off for years & just turned 80,000 on the odometer so it still has plenty of life left in it. My Wife is more of a cheapskate than I am & wants 100 MPG. She used to enjoy driving her 5.0 Mustang but has since changed what is important to her. She had a Honda Civic that got 35 to 40 MPG for a while & wants another one or even an electric or a hybrid.

I do miss the 4cyl. Nissan truck that I had & wish it didn't rust out or I'd still have it. It got twice the MPG compared my Dodge. When gas hit $5 or more it was costing $125 & higher to fill the Dodge, so like Steve P. said, I couldn't go places as often. Driving an economy car, even if it were a goofy, gutless, pink Prius, wouldn't bother me one bit because I don't have an ego to stroke & don't give a rat's ass what people think. It would leave me a lot of extra money to fix the big block car in the garage to take it to the drag strip. 

[ACUDANUT]

Why doesn't the EPA start regulating how many rockets we sent into space.  Do you realize how much crap these rockets pollute the air and not to mention,  these rockets punch holes in the O zone.
Then aging, aren't  more countries doing a heck of a lot worse harm to our environment than us. ? What can we do to them to make them stop....Nothing 

[Old Moparz]

Why doesn't the EPA start regulating how many rockets we sent into space.  Do you realize how much crap these rockets pollute the air and not to mention,  these rockets punch holes in the O zone.
Then aging, aren't  more countries doing a heck of a lot worse harm to our environment than us. ? What can we do to them to make them stop....Nothing 

You can lead by example, but if you give the impression you don't give a crap, then it's a sure thing that you can do nothing. Other countries are starting to realize there is a problem so they are "doing something" to make changes. It might be believable or not, but any type of change has to start at the bottom in small measures.

China Might Give It A Shot.

India Too.

[Mike DC]

What happens when you want to go on a long trip? The small engine will use more fuel to charge the battery than it would to just run the wheels directly. You'll end up getting less fuel economy than a straight gasoline car made now.

Actually no.  A small recharging engine will do much better than just running the wheels directly. 

This engine only has to produce enough power for the vehicle on average, which is a lot closer to 25 horsepower than 200.  A traditional gas engine setup needs to be big enough for the briefest maximum spikes of 200+ horsepower when accelerating.  A traditional engine setup is always over-producing power at low RPMs when cruising.  With electrics powering the wheels it can just yank short bursts of extra power entirely from the batteries. 

Furthermore, the small recharging engine only has to work at one maximum-efficient RPM.  It can be a simple engine that runs at a low speed and has no compromises to make power at both 1000 and 6000 RPM.  It's a major efficiency improvement over current vehicle engines.

[Cooter]

Cool. Just as with fuel burning. Cars, we'll find a way to rewind electric motors, double battery power, triple output of electric motors, etc. Bring it.

[bristol]

I would bet that 100 years ago people were having this same discussion about automobiles will replace all horses and horse drawn carriages in the next ten years. What will we be discussing in another 100 years?