Questions about 1970 door VIN decals

[ECS]

too bad I didn't have this conversation and offer earlier in the year. the weather is finally breaking so I can be outside. and I am so frigging close that I could drive over and rifle through a few boxes. I am assuming that Don wants examples for the 70 registry. I also think that being winter, this was a very enlightening topic. its another "ma mopar" thing. so if it were successful to locate a couple examples for Don, I would indeed aid in the search for the decals.

The offer stands!  You might however want to wait until I post the picture of the mountain of information you will be sifting through.  It took me 4 HOURS to find the first example of just one of the "unique" VIN Decals that I posted earlier in this thread.

[MGBRingo]

And, by the way.  Thanks for the info you shared. I learned a lot from it. It was very helpful!!

If you were close, I would buy you a beer.

[Davtona]

This is a charger thread.  With a topic that expressed clearly well, What the topic was about.

For the record, this thread was originally started by your buddy tufcat about the Green Charger with my "fake" VIN decal and why it was "incorrectly" made with a 2 digit 70 year date instead of the 4 digit 1970 date.  Your "Witch Hunt" was ultimately cleaned up by the Moderators.  Nice to see how you try to spin the facts and act like you have an Interest in finding Chrager VIN information when your original intent was on proving me wrong.  Sorry but you didn't and NEVER will.

ECS,

I must say I don't know why you put up with this abuse. You should keep what you have learned to yourself and share it with those that appreciate it. The few on the other side of this argument do not appreciate what you are doing for the hobby anyway. They are either beating a dead horse or telling you to stay on topic. I have not seen where they have contributed anything positive to this thread. How many door tags have they posted? Without your information this thread is dead anyway. I don't care if the tags you post are not all Chargers. They are all interesting anyway particularly the Daytona's. You have worked hard to collect the information you have. Share it with people that appreciate it. You should not have to spend hours digging thru boxes of stuff just to appease someone who cannot reciprocate with comparable information. Those of us without a personal vendetta to settle know the information you have collected is available to us if we were to ask privately. Share it with guys like Dodge Don who will preserve it and pass it on to those who can use it properly. Like I said before these few do not appreciate what you are doing / have done for the hobby. Do not try to make them happy you cannot. Concentrate on making those that appreciate what you do happy.  

[davidcam69]

This is a charger thread.  With a topic that expressed clearly well, What the topic was about.

For the record, this thread was originally started by your buddy tufcat about the Green Charger with my "fake" VIN decal and why it was "incorrectly" made with a 2 digit 70 year date instead of the 4 digit 1970 date.  Your "Witch Hunt" was ultimately cleaned up by the Moderators.  Nice to see how you try to spin the facts and act like you have an Interest in finding Chrager VIN information when your original intent was on proving me wrong.  Sorry but you didn't and NEVER will.

ECS,

I must say I don't know why you put up with this abuse. You should keep what you have learned to yourself and share it with those that appreciate it. The few on the other side of this argument do not appreciate what you are doing for the hobby anyway. They are either beating a dead horse or telling you to stay on topic. I have not seen where they have contributed anything positive to this thread. How many door tags have they posted? Without your information this thread is dead anyway. I don't care if the tags you post are not all Chargers. They are all interesting anyway particularly the Daytona's. You have worked hard to collect the information you have. Share it people that appreciate it. You should not have to spend hours digging thru boxes of stuff just to appease someone who cannot reciprocate with comparable information. Those of us without a personal vendetta to settle know the information you have collected is available to us if we were to ask privately. Share it with guys like Dodge Don who will preserve it and pass it on to those who can use it properly. Like I said before these few do not appreciate what you are doing / have done for the hobby. Do not try to make them happy you cannot. Concentrate on making those that appreciate what you do happy. 


Could not a said any better, Bravo!

[ECS]

When are you going to be offering a reproduction trunk mat for the 68 - 70 Chargers? Come on tell me you got plans in the works.

It is the MAIN "new" product we are working on this year but believe me when I say I'm not looking forward to it.  It seems like no matter what we do, one of these idiots has to follow me around and try to ruin the outcome or reputation of our efforts.  

I'm coming very close to showing them just how stupid and problematic the results of their slanderous actions are going to become.  One would think that their Employer would be interested in seeing the trail of Forum involvement they have been doing during work hours while taking money to do a specific job.    

[hemi-hampton]

  I'd like to see someone reproduce a nice reproduction 1970 Charger Trunk Mat. I could probably use one. My Original is kinda beat up unfortunately. LEON.

[resq302]

I'm sure I could use one for my charger, Dad's GTX vert, and Mom's Chally vert !

[ECS]

I'm sure I could use one for my charger, Dad's GTX vert, and Mom's Chally vert !

I'm definitely going to have a Trunk Mat (in the near future) that will emulate the original ones used by the Factory cars.  On a separate but similar note, I had some Guys on a GM Forum asking about the EXACT same subject matter concerning 1969 Pontiac Trans Ams.  I posted this picture (below) and not a SINGLE person was rude or started giving me grief about the information I shared.  What many of you don't know is that I have the same approval and Licensing with all of the other major Automobile manufacturers.  We have the same types of VIN Databases for the various Brand X Cars. 

Totally off topic but below is a small sample of some of the Classic GM VIN Decals that we manufacture. It's weird how some people are cordial while a select few treat you as if you kidnapped one of their Children when you try to share YEARS of accumulated information & knowledge.

[resq302]

But Dave, I see conflicting things in those VIN decals.  Surely GM wouldn't have had variations too?   Must be a conspiracy theory !   

[ECS]

But Dave, I see conflicting things in those VIN decals.  Surely GM wouldn't have had variations too?   Must be a conspiracy theory !  

Maybe tufcat or MN74 can explain the second one down in the center row, where there is some residual/partial print that is showing under the vehicle identification number and to the left of it.  I wonder why those partial numbers are there and what caused them?

[bill440rt]

It makes you wonder was the purpose of the question was to begin with?

You'll notice that every time I ask a question, they won't give an answer!  I've asked what particular Charger VIN characteristic they are trying to research?  I get no answer!  I've asked if they think that Charger VIN Decals were given preferential treatment by the St. Louis Plant?  I get no answer!  I've asked the significance for finding this "mysterious" information and what relevance it has on the Hobby?  I get no answer!  

I cannot believe this thread...  
Disclaimer: This post is not to point fingers or become argumentative.  

A request in this thread was for fellow forum members to post pics of their original door VIN decals to display any differences, compare notes, etc. IIRC, this request applied to only March built cars??  
ECS, it appears you were brought into the mix simply because your amount of amassed research could possibly exceed the total amount of members here that could actually show examples. Whether you want to show examples, help members, etc, is entirely your decision. I am glad to see you did post some examples, if anything to show differences did exist. Even the GM decal differences I find fascinating, although irrelevant here.

In regards to your questions, I'll at least try to give them a whirl:

"I've asked what particular Charger VIN characteristic they are trying to research?"  Pretty sure the original question only pertained to March built cars with 3-70 or 3-1970 date differences.

"I've asked if they think that Charger VIN Decals were given preferential treatment by the St. Louis Plant?"  Darned if I know, but if I had to take a wild guess I'd say NO. The goal back in the day was to crank these suckers out as fast as possible. Quality control wasn't that great across the board, remaining examples today show that errors DID happen and vehicles left the plant with these errors left not corrected. Chargers weren't excluded.  

"I've asked the significance for finding this "mysterious" information and what relevance it has on the Hobby?"  I think the only "significance" is to show that these variations did exist, and to what extent. Did they occur during a certain time period (early/late-March, etc). Was it just March, or did it occur in other months also? It has relevance on the Hobby because let's face it, we are Charger afficionados & like to learn as much as possible about these cars. To some of us number-crunchers, well I guess it does matter even if nothing more than to satisfy human curiousity. Since this is a Charger forum, of course those are the decals the members are concentrating on.


Hopefully you find my answers/comments completely neutral and non-argumentative.  

I am also eager to see the new repro trunk mats, I could use one as well for my '70. (May-built car, I am exempt from the date drama!)    

[ECS]

Hopefully you find my answers/comments completely neutral and non-argumentative.  

Thank you very much for your respect and concern about the subject matter Bill.  The GM VIN Decals are in fact a necessary aspect of the topic at hand.  If you were trying to do an Investigation of Fruits and only went to an Apple Orchard to research information, what reliable data would you come up with?  The only facts you would find would be applicable to Apples and no other Fruit types.  

I am licensed to make Ford, GM, Chrysler, etc......VIN labels for the Industry.  I have learned specifics about the overall Industry from gathering information on EVERY brand of vehicle.  These Federal Labels have mandates that are written across the board and do not apply to just one Manufacturer or style of vehicle.  For example, I have found valuable Information about Chrysler VINs from studying Ford VINs & vice versa.

[ECS]

ECS, can you confirm that your Company is Licensed to reproduce/replicate anything on Pre-1991 Chrysler vehicles ??
whether it be....
Door Stickers with VIN #'s ?
Fender Tags ?
or,
anything else you are producing ?

Yes, we are licensed to Manufacture even the pre-1990 VIN decals as well as many other Chrysler products.  We are also the only Company in the history of Chrysler to ever receive EXCLUSIVE licensing for a particular product line.  (Late Model VIN Decals)  The Product Line was too important and needed to be Federally controlled.  They did not want multiple Companies to have access to their proprietary information.  It took more 4 years of red tape to earn the approval to offer the line to the Industry.

[moparnation74]

http://inspectionsticker.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=62&products_id=1297

[ECS]

http://inspectionsticker.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=62&products_id=1297

Thank you for bringing this type of fraud and bootlegging to everyone's attention.  I have already contacted this "company" and left a message as to what will be done next.  The information will be forwarded to TRI/Chrysler and the fraud exposed.  This happens to us all the time.  Some fly by night "company" advertises one of OUR decals and claims that they are able to manufacture them.  Let's see how long this false advertisement remains on the Internet. 

Thanks again for you help!

[TUFCAT]

http://inspectionsticker.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=62&products_id=1297

Thank you for bringing this type of fraud and bootlegging to everyone's attention.  I have already contacted this "company" and left a message as to what will be done next.  The information will be forwarded to TRI/Chrysler and the fraud exposed.  This happens to us all the time.  Some fly by night "company" advertises one of OUR decals and claims that they are able to manufacture them.  Let's see how long this false advertisement remains on the Internet.  

Thanks again for you help!

Do you need an "exclusive contract" with Chrysler to produce the pre 1980 (13-digit stuff), or do you just need to be an an "authorized vendor" (there's a big difference).  I recently bought a Snapper snowblower from an "authorized dealer", even though other places were authorized to sell Snapper snowblowers legally.

Please don't go on the attack.  Just a question.  Challenger 340 had a similar question.  

[ECS]

Do you need an "exclusive contract" with Chrysler to produce the pre 1980 (13-digit stuff), or do you just need to be an an "authorized vendor" (there's a big difference).  I recently bought a Snapper snowblower from an "authorized dealer", even though other places were authorized to sell Snapper snowblowers legally.

I am the exclusive Licensed, Authorized Manufacturer for ALL replacement Chrysler VIN Decals.  If you want to see the "power" that someone as insignificant as me has concerning these scenarios, go look at the link that MN74 posted where he was trying to prove me wrong about my exclusive status.  Do you see how quickly things work for a guy like me who has the right contacts and is able to handle the fraud when it is disclosed?  I wonder why the VIN products disappeared on that Companies website?  What a coincidence that none of his "bootlegged" VINs are advertised anymore.  I wonder who might be responsible for that?  And on a Sunday (non working day) to boot!    

[dyslexic teddybear]

Personalities aside.....

I hate fakes. Good that there's one less.

And.....as a small business owner, it always pissed me off to have to compete with someone not going by the rules.

Re-personal display of power.......irrelevant.

Re-removing fake /fraud.......


Now, back to the normal scheduled internet kerfuffle.........

[resq302]

Do you need an "exclusive contract" with Chrysler to produce the pre 1980 (13-digit stuff), or do you just need to be an an "authorized vendor" (there's a big difference).  I recently bought a Snapper snowblower from an "authorized dealer", even though other places were authorized to sell Snapper snowblowers legally.

I am the exclusive Licensed, Authorized Manufacturer for ALL replacement Chrysler VIN Decals.  If you want to see the "power" that someone as insignificant as me has concerning these scenarios, go look at the link that MN74 posted where he was trying to prove me wrong about my exclusive status.  Do you see how quickly things work for a guy like me who has the right contacts and is able to handle the fraud when it is disclosed?  I wonder why the VIN products disappeared on that Companies website?  What a coincidence that none of his "bootlegged" VINs are advertised anymore.  I wonder who might be responsible for that?  And on a Sunday (non working day) to boot!    

Dave,

I went to look at the link that Moparnation74 posted and I saw nothing about VIN decals there.  Am I missing something?

[bill440rt]

Hopefully you find my answers/comments completely neutral and non-argumentative.  

Thank you very much for your respect and concern about the subject matter Bill.  The GM VIN Decals are in fact a necessary aspect of the topic at hand.  If you were trying to do an Investigation of Fruits and only went to an Apple Orchard to research information, what reliable data would you come up with?  The only facts you would find would be applicable to Apples and no other Fruit types.  

Right, but I think the info people are looking for in this thread only pertains to apples. (Title: "Questions about 1970 door VIN decals")
They are not seeking info on lemons. Or limes. Or watermelons. 

[moparnation74]

Do you need an "exclusive contract" with Chrysler to produce the pre 1980 (13-digit stuff), or do you just need to be an an "authorized vendor" (there's a big difference).  I recently bought a Snapper snowblower from an "authorized dealer", even though other places were authorized to sell Snapper snowblowers legally.

I am the exclusive Licensed, Authorized Manufacturer for ALL replacement Chrysler VIN Decals.  If you want to see the "power" that someone as insignificant as me has concerning these scenarios, go look at the link that MN74 posted where he was trying to prove me wrong about my exclusive status.  Do you see how quickly things work for a guy like me who has the right contacts and is able to handle the fraud when it is disclosed?  I wonder why the VIN products disappeared on that Companies website?  What a coincidence that none of his "bootlegged" VINs are advertised anymore.  I wonder who might be responsible for that?  And on a Sunday (non working day) to boot!    

Dave,

I went to look at the link that Moparnation74 posted and I saw nothing about VIN decals there.  Am I missing something?

I was glad to bring this to Dave's attention.  That way he could truly expose the fraud out there that is happening.

See Dave.  I brought another benefit to this forum.  Actually two: 1. To your company and products   2. To 70 chargers owners and to other model lines for the viewers of this thread.

Sometimes it is not personal

[resq302]

Do you need an "exclusive contract" with Chrysler to produce the pre 1980 (13-digit stuff), or do you just need to be an an "authorized vendor" (there's a big difference).  I recently bought a Snapper snowblower from an "authorized dealer", even though other places were authorized to sell Snapper snowblowers legally.

I am the exclusive Licensed, Authorized Manufacturer for ALL replacement Chrysler VIN Decals.  If you want to see the "power" that someone as insignificant as me has concerning these scenarios, go look at the link that MN74 posted where he was trying to prove me wrong about my exclusive status.  Do you see how quickly things work for a guy like me who has the right contacts and is able to handle the fraud when it is disclosed?  I wonder why the VIN products disappeared on that Companies website?  What a coincidence that none of his "bootlegged" VINs are advertised anymore.  I wonder who might be responsible for that?  And on a Sunday (non working day) to boot!    

Dave,

I went to look at the link that Moparnation74 posted and I saw nothing about VIN decals there.  Am I missing something?

Maybe you can enlighten me as to what was on the link about VIN decals that you posted.  I went there and saw nothing about VIN decals.  I'm guessing by your post there was some kind of fraud going on?

[ECS]

Dave, I went to look at the link that Moparnation74 posted and I saw nothing about VIN decals there.  Am I missing something?

I made a couple of phone calls to my Friends in high places and had the problem resolved.  You'll notice that tufcat was (once again) trying to challenge and spin doubt about my Exclusive Licensing with Chrysler.  MN74 will never admit to it but I am POSITIVE that him posting that link was not to expose fraud but to cast doubt about me saying that I was the only person licensed to manufacture Chrysler VIN Decals.  After I PROVED ONCE AGAIN the facts concerning my VIN licensing status, they try to spin it as if they were posting that link in hopes of exposing fraud.  Like I said, it was nothing more than an attempt to poke holes in my remarks about having exclusive Chrysler VIN Licensing.

[ECS]

Right, but I think the info people are looking for in this thread only pertains to apples. (Title: "Questions about 1970 door VIN decals")
They are not seeking info on lemons. Or limes. Or watermelons.  

The pictures I posted WERE in reference to 1970 Door VIN Decals.  If you actually were referring to CHARGER 1970 Door VIN Decals, I'll ask you the question again.  Are you assuming that Charger VIN Decals had a different criteria for how they were made?  The ones I pictured here were completely random in my efforts to find them.  I did not go to a particular box and immediately locate those.  They are the anomalies that have no rhyme or reason for their odd print variations.  If I continued to look for another 6 hours, I may have come across a 1970 Charger VIN Decal with an odd print feature.  I know because I have seen them sometime in the past 12 years.  

Once again you seem to be insinuating that I should be trying to research the unplanned mistakes, that may have happened to random examples, that might have taken place on an accidental basis.   I simply don't have the ability to use X Ray Vision to see into the 25+ boxes that they are stored in.  The random examples were compiled over a 12 year span and they are in no particular order.  All of them were added to the mix as the Customers randomly ordered them.  Why is this so hard for some of you to understand?  If I could just walk over and pull an "odd Charger VIN example" like a Magician pulls a card from a deck, I would have done it!  I still don't know what good it is to research this unless the weird Decal would have come off of YOUR Car!  If that were the case, wouldn't you already KNOW the answer to your question?  Are the rest of you (who might ever want to order one) going to ask that I change your Charger VIN to represent a weird anomaly, specific to another vehicle?  

Someone help me understand what the importance is for trying to research an accidental needle in the haystack?  Should my next "documentation exercise" be to research the rock salt pebbles that were distributed in a two foot section on the road (during the last snow storm) and form a hypothesis about that random & non-planned sampling distribution?

[ECS]

I am as interested as the rest of you to find out what little differences there are in any and all variances that might be on VIN decals or anything like that.

I'll have some more to post tomorrow.  I won't leave everyone just hanging on this topic.  I'll first show the BOXES of information I have to sift through to find whatever variations are out there.  Keep in mind that what I find will not represent every one that was ever made.  it will only bring more doubt and skepticism to the subject matter.