Freshening up the 440

[C500]

Hi Guys,

I have the 440 out of my 69 C500 and completely apart. Motor ran really strong when it was in the car. It's a numbers matching engine, and has done low mileage -65k un-documented. The bores and pistons are in good condition. Bores will get a hone. Crank has some wear and will get a grind. The cam doesn't appear to be the factory cam, and is going to be replaced with a new one.

I want to keep the factory look (have seen hemigeno's post) with factory HP exhaust manifolds, factory intake, heads, ignition (may go MSD 6AL later). Has a 750 Edelbrock carb. Will go new bearings, rings, lifters, springs timing chain (old one is quite baggy). Any advice please on a new cam and what else should be replaced with it. Suggestions on brands/part numbers welcome.

Don't want to go replacing a whole lot of stuff that doesn't need replacing, this is to be built for street use.

Cheers,

Dunk

[BSB67]

I'm always curious as what constitutes "bores in good condition".  Do you have measured taper and out-of-round for the bore and what are they??  It will have both, the question is how much.  These are the measurements that you need to determine how good the bores are.

Anyways, if you are going with the factory intake, that is the bottleneck in the whole engine.  You will want to stay very close to the factory specs.  I would recommend a Bob K. cam, the MP 0.445" lift cam, Crower 271, or call a professional and have a custom cam ground.  It does not cost much more.

[C500]

Bores will be measured in the next few days, but based on lack of wear in them and mileage on motor, we're not expecting it needs a re-bore. Will know for sure soon.

The intake makes such a big difference? May consider a new intake if it makes such a difference to the performance.

Thanks for the Cam advice, will investigate those. 

[69wannabe]

The comp 268 high energy cam would be a stride above stock or very close to a stock cam in your 440. My buddy had a close to stock 440 in his charger and had the XE 268 and it was a great sounding and mild camshaft. Anytime you go with a different cam than stock always get the recommended valve springs and retainer's and lock's so your cam will be matched to the springs. Lunati makes some good sounding small cams with good sound and driveability too but watch the lift on those since you can't go over a 510 lift unless you get the valve guides machined down so the retainers will not bottom out. The comp cams have a lower lift and that's why I like their cams for running with stock heads.

[C500]

The comp 268 high energy cam would be a stride above stock or very close to a stock cam in your 440. My buddy had a close to stock 440 in his charger and had the XE 268 and it was a great sounding and mild camshaft. Anytime you go with a different cam than stock always get the recommended valve springs and retainer's and lock's so your cam will be matched to the springs. Lunati makes some good sounding small cams with good sound and driveability too but watch the lift on those since you can't go over a 510 lift unless you get the valve guides machined down so the retainers will not bottom out. The comp cams have a lower lift and that's why I like their cams for running with stock heads.

Thanks for the reply, I'm learning as I go 

[Challenger340]

Hi Guys,

I have the 440 out of my 69 C500 and completely apart. Motor ran really strong when it was in the car. It's a numbers matching engine, and has done low mileage -65k un-documented. The bores and pistons are in good condition. Bores will get a hone. Crank has some wear and will get a grind. The cam doesn't appear to be the factory cam, and is going to be replaced with a new one.

I want to keep the factory look (have seen hemigeno's post) with factory HP exhaust manifolds, factory intake, heads, ignition (may go MSD 6AL later). Has a 750 Edelbrock carb. Will go new bearings, rings, lifters, springs timing chain (old one is quite baggy). Any advice please on a new cam and what else should be replaced with it. Suggestions on brands/part numbers welcome.

Don't want to go replacing a whole lot of stuff that doesn't need replacing, this is to be built for street use.

Cheers,

Dunk

I am going through a similar dilemma with mine right now ?
So I will ask you....
If the "Numbers Matching" Engine was still running "really strong when it was in the car", with low mileage(65K) ?
why are you pulling the Engine to rebuild ?

And if then.... this project is to increase or "enhance" the performance ?
Why would you not just put the C500 #'s matching original 440 Engine, "still running strong" off to the side, and do whatever you wish to another 440 candidate ?
As they are only "original" once is my rationale ?

[C500]

Hi Guys,

I have the 440 out of my 69 C500 and completely apart. Motor ran really strong when it was in the car. It's a numbers matching engine, and has done low mileage -65k un-documented. The bores and pistons are in good condition. Bores will get a hone. Crank has some wear and will get a grind. The cam doesn't appear to be the factory cam, and is going to be replaced with a new one.

I want to keep the factory look (have seen hemigeno's post) with factory HP exhaust manifolds, factory intake, heads, ignition (may go MSD 6AL later). Has a 750 Edelbrock carb. Will go new bearings, rings, lifters, springs timing chain (old one is quite baggy). Any advice please on a new cam and what else should be replaced with it. Suggestions on brands/part numbers welcome.

Don't want to go replacing a whole lot of stuff that doesn't need replacing, this is to be built for street use.

Cheers,

Dunk

I am going through a similar dilemma with mine right now ?
So I will ask you....
If the "Numbers Matching" Engine was still running "really strong when it was in the car", with low mileage(65K) ?
why are you pulling the Engine to rebuild ?

And if then.... this project is to increase or "enhance" the performance ?
Why would you not just put the C500 #'s matching original 440 Engine, "still running strong" off to the side, and do whatever you wish to another 440 candidate ?
As they are only "original" once is my rationale ?

Hi Challenger340....I pulled the engine because the car is going through a full resto - see my resto thread in the Aero cars section. I bought a gasket kit for it as it was leaking oil, new frost plugs, and while it was out, wanted to open it up and see if any work had been done to it, along with some maintenance - new bearings, rings etc. These things certainly needed doing. I had no way of knowing what work had been done to the motor, if any, without opening it up. After stripping the engine down, my mechanic thinks the mileage is pretty accurate. I'm not looking for a ton of extra horsepower, building it for street use/weekend cruiser.

I don't see the point in buying another 440 and putting the original block to the side when I can run the original 440 in the car. Besides, I don't have much room to store an engine.

A fully original car is pretty cool to have, but having an original, 'un-touched' engine (which mine was not documented to be, only "thought to be" from previous owner) in a restored body doesn't have much appeal to me.

I have also had the trans fully rebuilt.

[C500]

Bores and pistons have now been measured up. Max gap between pistons and their respective bores was 7 thou. Factory manual allows for up to 13 thou.

Bore 'round' was less. Taper through bores was minimal (can't remember the measurement right now). All pistons were less than 1 thou for 'round' and also for taper along piston. Original pistons will be going back in the holes. Block will be going in for hot dipping next. Crank machining, and some new rings, bearings, springs, cam.... Looking at going with the comp cams 268 cam.

Dunk

[ws23rt]

Hi Guys,

I have the 440 out of my 69 C500 and completely apart. Motor ran really strong when it was in the car. It's a numbers matching engine, and has done low mileage -65k un-documented. The bores and pistons are in good condition. Bores will get a hone. Crank has some wear and will get a grind. The cam doesn't appear to be the factory cam, and is going to be replaced with a new one.

I want to keep the factory look (have seen hemigeno's post) with factory HP exhaust manifolds, factory intake, heads, ignition (may go MSD 6AL later). Has a 750 Edelbrock carb. Will go new bearings, rings, lifters, springs timing chain (old one is quite baggy). Any advice please on a new cam and what else should be replaced with it. Suggestions on brands/part numbers welcome.

Don't want to go replacing a whole lot of stuff that doesn't need replacing, this is to be built for street use.

Cheers,

Dunk

I am going through a similar dilemma with mine right now ?
So I will ask you....
If the "Numbers Matching" Engine was still running "really strong when it was in the car", with low mileage(65K) ?
why are you pulling the Engine to rebuild ?

And if then.... this project is to increase or "enhance" the performance ?
Why would you not just put the C500 #'s matching original 440 Engine, "still running strong" off to the side, and do whatever you wish to another 440 candidate ?
As they are only "original" once is my rationale ?

Hi Challenger340....I pulled the engine because the car is going through a full resto - see my resto thread in the Aero cars section. I bought a gasket kit for it as it was leaking oil, new frost plugs, and while it was out, wanted to open it up and see if any work had been done to it, along with some maintenance - new bearings, rings etc. These things certainly needed doing. I had no way of knowing what work had been done to the motor, if any, without opening it up. After stripping the engine down, my mechanic thinks the mileage is pretty accurate. I'm not looking for a ton of extra horsepower, building it for street use/weekend cruiser.

I don't see the point in buying another 440 and putting the original block to the side when I can run the original 440 in the car. Besides, I don't have much room to store an engine.

A fully original car is pretty cool to have, but having an original, 'un-touched' engine (which mine was not documented to be, only "thought to be" from previous owner) in a restored body doesn't have much appeal to me.

I have also had the trans fully rebuilt.

I agree with not seeing the point in setting the original engine aside.  Would this be for the next owner?  Would they not have the same question?
When an owner finally has the original engine rebuilt and ready to run would it sit in a car that doesn't run?

[ws23rt]

I have a situation where I pulled the original engine from my C500 at a time when I didn't know about the vin number on it.
I rebuilt an engine from a 70 charger rt  which is in the car now.
The original was running kinda rough and used a bit of oil. I found it to have a burned exhaust valve but otherwise is sound.
As to counting on the engine bores to be good? I will have an engine builder clean the bores to find out. In my case the engine has 120K on it from unknown history.

[C500]

Hi Guys,

I have the 440 out of my 69 C500 and completely apart. Motor ran really strong when it was in the car. It's a numbers matching engine, and has done low mileage -65k un-documented. The bores and pistons are in good condition. Bores will get a hone. Crank has some wear and will get a grind. The cam doesn't appear to be the factory cam, and is going to be replaced with a new one.

I want to keep the factory look (have seen hemigeno's post) with factory HP exhaust manifolds, factory intake, heads, ignition (may go MSD 6AL later). Has a 750 Edelbrock carb. Will go new bearings, rings, lifters, springs timing chain (old one is quite baggy). Any advice please on a new cam and what else should be replaced with it. Suggestions on brands/part numbers welcome.

Don't want to go replacing a whole lot of stuff that doesn't need replacing, this is to be built for street use.

Cheers,

Dunk

I am going through a similar dilemma with mine right now ?
So I will ask you....
If the "Numbers Matching" Engine was still running "really strong when it was in the car", with low mileage(65K) ?
why are you pulling the Engine to rebuild ?

And if then.... this project is to increase or "enhance" the performance ?
Why would you not just put the C500 #'s matching original 440 Engine, "still running strong" off to the side, and do whatever you wish to another 440 candidate ?
As they are only "original" once is my rationale ?

Hi Challenger340....I pulled the engine because the car is going through a full resto - see my resto thread in the Aero cars section. I bought a gasket kit for it as it was leaking oil, new frost plugs, and while it was out, wanted to open it up and see if any work had been done to it, along with some maintenance - new bearings, rings etc. These things certainly needed doing. I had no way of knowing what work had been done to the motor, if any, without opening it up. After stripping the engine down, my mechanic thinks the mileage is pretty accurate. I'm not looking for a ton of extra horsepower, building it for street use/weekend cruiser.

I don't see the point in buying another 440 and putting the original block to the side when I can run the original 440 in the car. Besides, I don't have much room to store an engine.

A fully original car is pretty cool to have, but having an original, 'un-touched' engine (which mine was not documented to be, only "thought to be" from previous owner) in a restored body doesn't have much appeal to me.

I have also had the trans fully rebuilt.

I agree with not seeing the point in setting the original engine aside.  Would this be for the next owner?  Would they not have the same question?
When an owner finally has the original engine rebuilt and ready to run would it sit in a car that doesn't run?

Next owner? I'm doing this work for me, no plans to sell. Hope to have the car running by the end of the year

[ws23rt]