ATF wants to ban 223 AP ammo

[WINGMAN]

  Well gun folks. The new anti gun talk is the ATF wants to ban 223 Armor piercing ammo like SS109 or M855 green tip. There is already a run on the stuff and will hit a dollar a round soon .If you want some better get it now. (Wingman)

[TUFCAT]

sounds like a major investment opportunity for the person who wants protection.

But the major concern right now is for our police officers.  Hence the ban.

[redmist]

sounds like a major investment opportunity for the person who wants protection.

But the major concern right now is for our police officers.  Hence the ban.

Ehhh...

No....

SS109 will not defeat body armor. It was designed to accommodate the lack of velocity out of the shorter platforms being fielded today (MK18 Mod 0 and 1) With lack of velocity out of these shorter barrels, you would not get proper fragmentation out of the XM193 ammunition. M855 was developed with a 62 grain bullet, and a small steel insert to try and gain some damaging performance back for the lack of velocity. It actually performs more poorly against an armored target than standard XM193.

This is feel good crap pushed by people who know less than zero about the ammunition, or the application of it.

M855 was not the best performing ammo, but it was readily available, so it must be taken from you.

All my cop friends are pissed this is happening, as they should be.

[TUFCAT]

I feel good as long as our cops are protected.  

[redmist]

Our cops are more protected than anyone who is not a cop... It's been that way for a long long looooooonnnngggg!!!! time! 

Cops should be protecting our rights just as much as any other civilian. "Banning" inanimate objects to protect a specific title of people is not how this is suppose to work.

[twodko]

True that. Everything has been spinning out of common sense for
quite a while now. 

[Mike DC]

   
A huge percentage of the country is in favor of these kinds of bans.  We're doing it to ourselves.

[dyslexic teddybear]

   
A huge percentage of the country is in favor of these kinds of bans.  We're doing it to ourselves.

Some polls have showed that......and most often that's because the questions are asked in a manor to get the result desired.

I believe if the percentage is as huge as those with an agenda would like believed....it would have already happened by now.

[myk]

I feel good as long as our cops are protected.  

Do you honestly believe that even if ALL guns and bullets were banned tomorrow that cops would become "safe?"  That belief is the product of emotionally charged fantasy; criminals will kill cops with clubs, cars, rocks, bare hands, whatever; that's why they're criminals, and they will do as they will regardless of what the "law" says, and regardless of what they can buy off of store shelves.

Now instead of worthless "feel good" measures that will solve nothing, let's discuss facts:  The vast majority of gun crimes are committed by handguns and pistols, and to a lesser extent shotguns, not civilian based semi-automatic rifles, or as the ignorant American would call it, an ASSAULT RIFLE.  A cop or a civilian is more likely to be killed by a drunk driver or medical malpractice than by a firearm of ANY kind, and this is information that was compiled and verified by the government's own FBI.  

All this ban will do is further encroach on the 2nd Amendment rights of every law-abiding citizen in America.  This will not keep cops or anyone else safe, since criminals will continue to procure their weapons, bullets, drugs, women, whatever, through illegal channels that are beyond the scope of the law.  Keeping Americans from their constitutional right to obtain firearms and ammunition will not keep anyone safe, rather, it just makes it easier for criminals to pick on the defenseless who ironically are obeying the laws that criminals are ignoring...

[Todd Wilson]

 

[stripedelete]

I hear the NAW (National Association of Woodchucks) is pushing a ban on all 223.

[dyslexic teddybear]

I feel good as long as our cops are protected.  

Do you honestly believe that even if ALL guns and bullets were banned tomorrow that cops would become "safe?"  That belief is the product of emotionally charged fantasy; criminals will kill cops with clubs, cars, rocks, bare hands, whatever; that's why they're criminals, and they will do as they will regardless of what the "law" says, and regardless of what they can buy off of store shelves.

Now instead of worthless "feel good" measures that will solve nothing, let's discuss facts:  The vast majority of gun crimes are committed by handguns and pistols, and to a lesser extent shotguns, not civilian based semi-automatic rifles, or as the ignorant American would call it, an ASSAULT RIFLE.  A cop or a civilian is more likely to be killed by a drunk driver or medical malpractice than by a firearm of ANY kind, and this is information that was compiled and verified by the government's own FBI.  

All this ban will do is further encroach on the 2nd Amendment rights of every law-abiding citizen in America.  This will not keep cops or anyone else safe, since criminals will continue to procure their weapons, bullets, drugs, women, whatever, through illegal channels that are beyond the scope of the law.  Keeping Americans from their constitutional right to obtain firearms and ammunition will not keep anyone safe, rather, it just makes it easier for criminals to pick on the defenseless who ironically are obeying the laws that criminals are ignoring...

Well put.

I'm all for a rational, factual discussion......and that's the opposite of a political discussion.

[twodko]

Myk,

Can you tell me a bit more about this procurement of women thing?
Sound like it migh easier than the process status quo. 

[TUFCAT]

Our cops are more protected than anyone who is not a cop... It's been that way for a long long looooooonnnngggg!!!! time!  

Cops should be protecting our rights just as much as any other civilian. "Banning" inanimate objects to protect a specific title of people is not how this is suppose to work.

"AP" means Armour Piercing.  

Hopefully technology used to protect our police officers has changed in recent years (for the better) because these bullets have been known to penetrate typical bullet proof vests worn by law enforcement.  

I realize the "bad guys" will also have the baddest bullets... with that being said, Police officers deserve necessary protection from military grade ammunition.

[el dub]

If the ATF wants to ban, they're going to. What can you do? Reload. that's it

[ACUDANUT]

So this SS109 ammo works best for longer barrels ? 

[redmist]

No, M855 works like crap in just about everything. And no... it doesn't defeat armor any better than anything else out there. It was simply made as an additional option for those shooting ammunition out of short barreled rifles. A standard XM193 will penetrate armor out of a barrel that will give it the velocity to do such.

"Armor Piercing" does not have to "Pierce armor" in any form or fashion to fall under the definition of armor piercing.

18 U.S.C., § 921(a)(17)(B)

A projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

A full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.


Mike, you are way wrong if you think "The majority of the country" wants these bans. That's simply not the case, I am sorry. The majority of the country doesn't even have the information to make an informed decision on this ammunition. It's simply put as "armor piercing" and for the children, because cops, and also think of the animals! and all the mouth breathers eat it up.

[redmist]

   
A huge percentage of the country is in favor of these kinds of bans.  We're doing it to ourselves.

Some polls have showed that......and most often that's because the questions are asked in a manor to get the result desired.

I believe if the percentage is as huge as those with an agenda would like believed....it would have already happened by now.

Poll question: Do you support the limiting, and or banning of deadly high grade military assault armor piercing rounds, to protect cops, children, and yourself from death around every corner?

Mouth Breather:  What?? Hell yes I do!!!  Ban all the things!



Poll question: Do you support the reclassification of XM855 green tip as defined under 18 U.S.C., § 921(a)(17)(B) based solely on the arbitrary composition of the round, and not it's actual performance as a viable armor defeating projectile, thus banning it from sportsman, hunters, target shooters, competition shooters??

Mouth Breather: What??  I like turtles. Whats an XM855?

[twodko]

Hey, I'm a mouth breather.  Allergies play hell with my nose. 

I also have a sufficient array of weapons, ammo and experience.

What makes me truly dangerous and a threat to society is........

I own a MOPAR! 

[twodko]

¥£€

[redmist]

Here.....


Watch this.

It explains exactly what I am getting at 100%

The banned ammo is LESS of a threat than standard 55 grain ammo out of the same gun on an AR500 plate.

The banning of green tip is nothing more than the ATF trying it's best to make it harder for you and me to shoot. Nothing more. I guarantee the ATF is fully aware of how M855 performs as shown in the video.

"Always think forfeiture."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMYkEMhPsO8

[el dub]

Once something is taken away, you don't get it back. That's why gun nuts vote no on everything. For a good reason. 

[dyslexic teddybear]

 


It's always one step at a time "for the children".



No one for increasing restrictions.......can ever explain how more laws and restrictions affect those that ignore laws and restrictions.

[TUFCAT]

.....can ever explain how more laws and restrictions affect those that ignore laws and restrictions.

Absolutely.  A "ban" would only limit legal sales....which has absolutely zero effect on criminals obtaining or possessing this stuff.

[TUFCAT]

Here's an effective weapon...