1968 440HP trans vs the 3832bbl transmission

[StockMan]

I picked up a 727 trans from a 1968 charger R/T.  It likely could use a rebuild but I know it works as is. 
Has anyone had any experiences using the heavy duty trans as compared to the lower performance 383 trans?
I've heard in a number of places that the 440HP trans has a much more rigid shift and shifts at higher RPMS, even more so than one would be able to get out of the 383 trans with adjustments.
I understand that its build with some heavier duty components as well, like the planetaries.
I have a 1968 3832bbl trans in the car now, that's had the line pressure bumped up a bit.  It shifts with a bit of stiffness, but I'd like to try this HP tranny if it will make any positive difference.
Thanks

[Cooter]

It truly boggles the mind how a simple "HP" Stamping can create a whole mess of misinformation like four bolt mains, forged pistons, higher compression, and thicker cylinder blocks, etc.

Only way to tell if that "R/T" trans is ANY, if at ALL, different is to open it up.
many times, it's nothing but a little higher revving gov. And four gear planets.

[c00nhunterjoe]

I picked up a 727 trans from a 1968 charger R/T.  It likely could use a rebuild but I know it works as is. 
Has anyone had any experiences using the heavy duty trans as compared to the lower performance 383 trans?
I've heard in a number of places that the 440HP trans has a much more rigid shift and shifts at higher RPMS, even more so than one would be able to get out of the 383 trans with adjustments.
I understand that its build with some heavier duty components as well, like the planetaries.
I have a 1968 3832bbl trans in the car now, that's had the line pressure bumped up a bit.  It shifts with a bit of stiffness, but I'd like to try this HP tranny if it will make any positive difference.
Thanks

After all these years, you have no way of knowing what parts are insde of either trans. You would have to dissassemble them and see what parts are inside. On a street car, i doubt you would see any difference in performance, even if this "hp" trans is beefed up a bit.
   

[Challenger340]

This could be a really interesting thread.... to find out if there were actually any differences ? and if so... just what the differences were between those identified on the Build Sheets/Fender Tags as HD 727 Transmissions and NON ?

I think John Kunkel would know ?... if anybody does he will !

I haven't been inside a 727 in 30 years, and once I found a "good guy",  I then just let him do mine as I was just too busy everywhere else.

From my own very limited Tranny guy skills or memory though, seems to me:
* Planetary's ? 4 pinion frt and rear for some reason ?
* front Drum was deeper/heavier where a guy could get more packs in without re-machining the snap ring groove ?
* But I can't remember the differences(if there was any?) in things like the Valve Body's, Governor etc., etc. ?
All we ever did was flip the Governor Valve around backwards and screw the throttle pressure basket full up and PRESTO = full manual shift.
between that and re-clutch with soft seal kit.... worked for me = Bunyak racing trans goof !

[Mopar Nut]

 

[John_Kunkel]

A 383-2 trans would have a lower clutch count, lower ratio band lever, lower RPM governor and lower pinion count (not the big issue everybody makes it) but, as hunterjoe observed, after 45+ years you'll never know what's inside until you open it up. Could have been upgraded years ago.

[StockMan]

Thanks for your responses.

[StockMan]

It truly boggles the mind how a simple "HP" Stamping can create a whole mess of misinformation like four bolt mains, forged pistons, higher compression, and thicker cylinder blocks, etc.

I'm not understanding how this has anything to do with my tranny question, but thanks?

[c00nhunterjoe]

It truly boggles the mind how a simple "HP" Stamping can create a whole mess of misinformation like four bolt mains, forged pistons, higher compression, and thicker cylinder blocks, etc.

I'm not understanding how this has anything to do with my tranny question, but thanks?

I beleive that what cooter is getting at is the same thing i took from your origonal post.
- you bought a used, "in need of rebuild" as you put it, "Hp" 727 and want to put it behind your 383 to see if it will run better then your "subpar" "low performance" 727. Even though you stated that your current 727 has been worked on, you think that just because the one you just bought is stamped HD and was behind a 440. This common misconception is the same as those who feel that early 440s are junk and you have to find special casting numbers to get a good one.
  As i had said before, To put is simply, no, you are not going to see any difference IN YOUR CAR from one to the other. In fact, the one in your car now will probably feel better then the "HD" one you just bought.

[StockMan]

It truly boggles the mind how a simple "HP" Stamping can create a whole mess of misinformation like four bolt mains, forged pistons, higher compression, and thicker cylinder blocks, etc.

I'm not understanding how this has anything to do with my tranny question, but thanks?

I beleive that what cooter is getting at is the same thing i took from your origonal post.
- you bought a used, "in need of rebuild" as you put it, "Hp" 727 and want to put it behind your 383 to see if it will run better then your "subpar" "low performance" 727. Even though you stated that your current 727 has been worked on, you think that just because the one you just bought is stamped HD and was behind a 440. This common misconception is the same as those who feel that early 440s are junk and you have to find special casting numbers to get a good one.
  As i had said before, To put is simply, no, you are not going to see any difference IN YOUR CAR from one to the other. In fact, the one in your car now will probably feel better then the "HD" one you just bought.

Thanks for clarifying, sorry, I wasn't clear in my post either, I don't have a 383, I have a fresh 68 440 magnum in the car now, with the 3832bbl tranny behind it, that I feel could feel a bit better.
I'm going to take the advise provided, take it apart, see what I have, maybe freshen it up and see how it works.  But if there will be no difference, I guess really it likely wouldn't be worth the hastle.

Thanks.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Alright, could you elaborate on why your transmission doesnt feel good? Or could feel better?
  Another misconception that i see all the time with the 727 is that its not right unless each shift is neck snapping. This is so far from correct. The ideal shift, even on full race versions, is a quick, positive "bump" if you will. If it jerks and bangs into gears, you are doing nothing more then wasting energy and putting undue stress on your transmission.

[StockMan]

From 1st to 2nd its a fairly solid 'Bump', maybe because the line pressure was upped a bit.  And if I launch off the line hard, or when it kicks down from 2nd to 1st, it feels almost like there's a slight bit of 'Chatter' which I know is likely not a good sign.  If never used to do this with the 3834bbl I had in the car.  This 440 has way more pull than the 383, which brings me back to the HP tranny, maybe the heavier duty unit will be what I need in the end... Thanks.

[John_Kunkel]

On many occasions I've had people bring me low-performance cores like the 383-2 to beef up...the only item I have to physically change is the band lever and we're only talking $20. Extra clutches can be added without changing drums, (I have a lathe but some don't) and the weak governor can be offset by a good reprogramming kit like the Transgo TF-2.

What I'm trying to say is it doesn't cost that much more to upgrade during a normal performance overhaul unless one specifies expensive components (like bolt in sprags, 4-gear planetaries, etc) that aren't really needed in most cases.

[StockMan]

On many occasions I've had people bring me low-performance cores like the 383-2 to beef up...the only item I have to physically change is the band lever and we're only talking $20. Extra clutches can be added without changing drums, (I have a lathe but some don't) and the weak governor can be offset by a good reprogramming kit like the Transgo TF-2.

What I'm trying to say is it doesn't cost that much more to upgrade during a normal performance overhaul unless one specifies expensive components (like bolt in sprags, 4-gear planetaries, etc) that aren't really needed in most cases.

Your making me think now.  Even with my stock 440 I don't suppose I would be stressing even the 3 gear planets.  And the 383 trans has been functioning, not sitting for 20 years.
Well I bought the 440 trans already (50 bucks), so I'll pop it apart, see what we have...with both trannys being 68, many if not all of the parts should be interchangeable which is a plus to.

Thanks

[John_Kunkel]

What people fail to accept is that the weak spot in the planetaries isn't the pinion count, the weak spot is the splines in the aluminum front planet carrier...this is where 99.9% of failures occur. The 3-pinion planet carrier is actually stronger in this area and there is less parasitic loss as the pinion count decreases.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Yup. The early ford e4od's used an aluminum planetary as well and my diesel tore the splines out of 2 of them before i swapped to the 4r100 steel unit. Torque and traction is an impressive union

[StockMan]

What people fail to accept is that the weak spot in the planetaries isn't the pinion count, the weak spot is the splines in the aluminum front planet carrier...this is where 99.9% of failures occur. The 3-pinion planet carrier is actually stronger in this area and there is less parasitic loss as the pinion count decreases.

Interesting, thanks for the good insight.