1966 440 stock build ..... numbers

[Paul G]

What would be the horsepower and torque numbers on a stock build 66 440? It has an over bore but other than that stock. How well does the bottom end accept heads cam upgrqdes?

[BSB67]

Factory called it 350 hp.  That is more than a little optimistic.  Probably more like 280 hp
and
Generally, stock rebuilds are done on a budget, and then make even less.  Typical sub-par cylinder head work, sunk valves, and the popular 0.040" thick gasket will suck another 30 hp away.

All of the bottom ends are the same.  It will be more a function of the quality of the rebuild.  If the rebuild was decent, due what you want with cam and heads, but don't go much above 5800 rpm.

[Challenger340]

What would be the horsepower and torque numbers on a stock build 66 440? It has an over bore but other than that stock. How well does the bottom end accept heads cam upgrqdes?

If it has had an "overbore" ? You can assume NEW Pistons were added to fit that overbore, and the "stock height" ones trashed ?

All bets are off..... without KNOWING FOR SURE...... the "Compression Distance" of the Pistons used, before you can assess compatibility of any Cam/Head upgrades, or how well it will perform.

Read here;
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,115564.0.html

[Paul G]

This guy wants to get rid of this engine bad. $1000 takes it home. He has all the receipts for machine work and the machinist is still in business. So he tells me. Hmm.......

[Paul G]

He tells me it was rebuilt a few years ago and never ran. He claims a $5000 rebuild bill.

[Paul G]

It never ran because he cant get it to run. Speaking of run, that's what the first machinist did was run before finishing the engine. Another guy (machinist?) put it back together for him and installed it in a 65 Imperial. That's where it sits. He says it will crank but wont start. Wants me to come and have a look at it.

Cam timing off?

Dizzy 180° out. Or not turning?

No spark?

No fuel?  

After this phone conversation today I am not sure if he wants me to buy it from him or fix it for him?

[myk]

Ugh.  I'd run too, away from this seller.  Like someone said earlier you don't know what's in that thing for sure and all bets are off.  Now it's build history was problematic too?  And I'm sure he'd like for you to come over and sort it out.  Once it starts to run he'll try to sell it for more money...

[Paul G]

My first thought is to just walk away. But, If it is an easy fix and a decent engine??? Then again if it is something simple.... I wont be able to "not" tell him. I couldn't do that to anyone. Again...Hmmm

I keep thinking that a piston swap, heads and cam can make a nice engine. If it is not SCREWED inside?

[Ghoste]

So go look at it and see if you can spot the problem without actually getting it to run, tell him its useless its just a POS and he got ripped off.  Offer him a few hundred bucks for his trouble telling him that you hope there could be a few useable parts in it for you.

[Paul G]

The real scoop. The seller of this magnificent diamond in the rough freshly rebuilt 66 440 goes by the names, Imperial Johnny, Junkyard Johnny, Nicholson, among other aliases. He is a known crook who will steal the shoes off your feet as your running away.

Good thing I did a little inquiring with some club members last night.

[don duick]

according to rick Erenberg from Mopar Action avoid 1966 440 blocks they are not as strong as 67 onwards

[el dub]

If he is a known crook set him up.

[Cooter]

So go look at it and see if you can spot the problem without actually getting it to run, tell him its useless its just a POS and he got ripped off.  Offer him a few hundred bucks for his trouble telling him that you hope there could be a few useable parts in it for you.

And Mechanics have no scruples. .......

[ODZKing]

One thing to keep in mind that I don't believe anyone has mentioned in the thread Paul, is that 440's were not available in B bodies until 67.  Any 440 would have come from a C body in 66.
So I can see why 67 and up were the ones to look for.

[BSB67]

according to rick Erenberg from Mopar Action avoid 1966 440 blocks they are not as strong as 67 onwards

Why?

[BSB67]

One thing to keep in mind that I don't believe anyone has mentioned in the thread Paul, is that 440's were not available in B bodies until 67.  Any 440 would have come from a C body in 66.
So I can see why 67 and up were the ones to look for.

Why?  Are you implying that the body style dictated the quality of the casting?

[ODZKing]

I'm not sure why they didn't offer it in anything but C bodies ... and Chryslers at that.  Not even Monaco or Polara from what I'm reading in the data books.

Then in 67

 

[Ghoste]

I think they were still maybe just gearing up for the whole "street" horsepower game.  There was no GTX or RT yet and the Charger was still feeling its way around as a Thunderbird competitor big enough to be used at NASCAR.  (that is to say a Hemi shell in a big body)  Remember its marketing was as a "personal luxury" car not a supercar (supercar still being the name used for muslcecars at the time).  The GTO was still a new invention to the Detroit execs and GM and Ford weren't putting anything that big in the intermediates yet so the Chrysler intermediate of 1966 was already a size and horsepower king with the Hemi available.  There was no reason to put the 440 in yet.  As it was, when they did so in 1967 it was such a jump in cubes over the competition that it was seen as a bold and crazy thing to do.

[stripedelete]

I think they were still maybe just gearing up for the whole "street" horsepower game.  There was no GTX or RT yet and the Charger was still feeling its way around as a Thunderbird competitor big enough to used at NASCAR.  (that is to say a Hemi shell in a big body)  Remember its marketing was as a "personal luxury" car not a supercar (supercar still being the name used for muslcecars at the time).  The GTO was still a new invention to the Detroit execx and GM and Ford weren't bigging anything that big in the intermediates yet so the Chrysler intermediate of 1966 was already a size and horsepower king with the Hemi available.  There was no reason to put the 440 in yet.  As it was, when they did so in 1967 it was such a jump in cubes over the competition that it was seen as a bold and crazy thing to do.

I agree.  I have always considered the 66 to 67 Coronet to be a good example of Chrysler's muscle car evolution.
The 66 Coronet 500, badged 383 4 barrel, was the precursor.  The 1967 Coronet R/T was "both feet in the water".

Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but, those two years, for that particular model, always struck me as the fish with feet and the one that walked on land.

[Steve P.]

You don't sound very "SOLD" on the idea of buying this engine anyways.. Your gut is typing and what I am reading is that you know you should stay away from anything this guy has to offer..  At best, you get your hands on the receipts and go talk to the machinist that did the work. Then decide from that point if you want to get it running.. If the motor was put together correctly it should be easy to fire up. but I would make damn sure it is the SAME engine this shop built and I'd look at everything I could before spending a cent..

On the other end you are out a grand and some work and have a boat anchor.

I went through this same thing a few years back. I ended up with a car and motor that I really didn't trust any of. I pulled the motor apart and sent it to be machined. Sold the body and everything I have kept from that deal I have gone through.. Still have to go through the tranny and NO, I do not trust it either.. 

[Paul G]

I probably should have stated up in "reply #9" that I am no longer interested. The seller is a scam artist who rips people off world wide, or so I was told by a local club member who got burned by him.

His "yard" is in an area not zoned for his so called Business. The local authorities have been on him for a while. He has been known to sell good looking parts over the internet to people over seas, then send them junk or nothing at all. I was told he will have a car in his yard to be doing some work on it for someone, swap out there good looking parts, chrome or polished pieces, etc. for poor condition parts that he can easily resell.

I could have pulled his chain for a while and jerked him around, my time is more valuable than wasting it on a douche bag. He never called me back about that engine again. If he had I would have continued to lead him on. He probably sensed I was a "cold fish". He probably looks for easier prey.