New Dash Pad Studs Too Short: Anyone Had This Issue Before?

[TexasStroker]

So...Another set back.  Since I know some will want background, I'll start there.  If you are just interested in what the problem is, skip ahead to the ** below.

I'm currently in the interior renovation stages for the Charger's upgrades.  Awhile back I ordered in a new dash pad from Classic Industries.  It looks great.  I have no clue who the manufacturer is (I tried to find this out before ordering).  This was actually a long process because when they'd launch their 20% off sales, the dash pad was always out of stock.  Needless to say, when things aligned I pulled the trigger and it looks great...I've even recommended it to a few folks inquiring here.  I made note that the studs were noticeably shorter, but I figured it would just make landing the speed nuts on a shade more difficult.

Flash forward to this past week.  I secured my sheet metal to cut out for the dash hat (long story) and it turned out great.  I was using the factory dash pad to mock everything up.  As a result, I made one final trim to make the fit really nice.  I was so pleased with how it turned out, I decided to file the edges (playing it very safe) and bust out the new dash pad to mock it up for a picture.

It was at this point I realized I had a serious issue.  The studs are too short to clear the metal frame of the dash.  As such, no speed nuts will be securing it.  Adding insult to injury the new dash pad seems to have less overlap, so the custom sheet metal piece I cut out and finely trimmed is now "too short" and leaves a section of dash exposed.  Luckily, I had to buy a 3'x8' sheet so I can cut another one out.  I am currently waiting on that in case my solutions can cinch it up, or will somehow manipulate the backside to a better fit.

**However, that brings us to the big issue here.  The studs are too short.  I don't know if I could cut down some of the foam backing and get a few threads thru or not, but I didn't shell out $200 for a "new" dash pad to have to modify it.  I thought some studs might be off (ie not line up with the factory mounting points requring me to "egg" out the dash frame), but I never imagined something as simple as repopping them with studs too short.  The easiest studs to assess are of course the center 2 that are found to the right and left of the factory radio.  They almost sit flush with the inside of the dash...obviously that makes installation impossible.

I had hoped I could secure a "stud extender" but have had no luck finding anything.  I can't use a hex coupling because it wouldn't clear the dash. 

I have thought of 2 options. 
1-Basically machining my own extension.  It would be a cylinder that is tapped for 12-24 and maintain as slim an OD as possible.  I would then hope that I could tighten it up and have it clear the dash frame.
2-Cut the current studs off and weld a 12-24 hex nut to the dash pad structure.  My fear here is that I could hurt the vinyl/foam.  Epoxy/JBWeld/LocTite is an option, but I'm not sure how it would hold up.
2.5-Try to drill out the studs and retap it to install some longer studs (really leery of this as I'm not sure what the manufacturer did)

Has anyone else run into this issue?  If so, what was your solution?  I am tempted to contact Classic and see what they have to say about it...I don't know if they'd let me return it or not.  I also don't know if anything they send out would be better, or have the same (or other) issues.  It looks great, but that means nothing if it can't be installed.  We are talking about fractions of an inch that are causing all this trouble.

On a positive note, I've had the "original" dash pad on and off so much, I can seat it with one hand, lol.

I will remeasure everything tonight.  If I remember right the factory studs are 5/8" long.  I hit them with the gauge today and have them pegged as #12 with a 24 thread count.  I couldn't find that info anywhere and thought some might need to know on down the road for their own restos.

[TexasStroker]

Just got home from work and ran out to the shop...

Factory studs measure just a shade under 5/8"

The "new" dash pad's studs measure an equal shade just under 3/8"

You can see where this could be an issue with 1/4" missing.  This is just really sad and imo a very unforgiving oversight.  I don't know if they were seated wrong in the mfg. process, or they were sent incorrect studs, or if they are all made this way.  All I know for certain is I need that 1/4" to clear the factory sheet metal and fasten the dash pad down correctly.  If I had to guess, I'd assume the factory used 3/4" studs and this mfg. uses a 1/2" stud.  The other side is blind to me, but it would likely make up the .125" or so on each.

[gtx6970]

Me personally, I would be on the phone with whom I bought it from.

Only 2 people making dash pads,, Legandary and PG Classics

Never used either one so I cant say which one is better

[TexasStroker]

Me personally, I would be on the phone with whom I bought it from.

Only 2 people making dash pads,, Legandary and PG Classics

Never used either one so I cant say which one is better

That's my plan...I had hoped what I described was a common item, but apparently it isn't.  I placed a stock order yesterday at work and my main hardware supplier jumps from #10 to 1/4" so I wasn't even able to order some rod.  I have some 1/4" tubing I will take home tonight and see how it clears the dash.  I'll have to see if I have a 12-24 tap.  I'm also going to measure the "forward" section of the pad itself...from the crown towards the glass...not sure it isn't shorter too.

[TexasStroker]

I suppose I should add that this is a 69 Charger and this is the pad in question: http://www.classicindustries.com/product/mopar/parts/mb529100.html

[oldcarnut]

You may have said this already and I didn't get the cylinder comment right but what about getting hex stock, drill/tap for the stud threads, then turn down part of the OD of the hex stock small enough to clear through the frame hole while leaving the other hex end long enough to wrench on.  sorta a nut extension instead of a stud extension  .

[TexasStroker]

I saw some barrel nuts, but think that would be too big for the dash frame.  I might pick one up tomorrow and see how the clearances are.  It might turn out to be easier than trying to tap tubing.  I think the 1/4" tubing I have could thread on, but I haven't gotten to see if I have a tap and then check it.

My biggest issue is going to be getting whatever I do to clear the dash frame...obviously I want to keep the modifications to the dash pad.

If I find something that works as an extension AND clears, I am half tempted to keep the rod stock long and have it extend past that awkward inset of the frame where you have to go in with extensions etc.  I won't really have anything on the RH to interfere with...LH side about the instrument cluster might need to be flush with the fame.  I figure if I have to go to a lot of trouble to make something work, I just as well make it work really well.

Other option is of course if Classic tells me this is a freak incident and they want to send out a correct one.

[gtx6970]

look at something called a a binding post , sometimes called a  coupling nut.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#binding-posts/=vry7hn

[oldcarnut]

Yep a coupling nut with one end turned down to fit the frame is what I was referring too .  There's several things in that catolog that could be used 

[TexasStroker]

I'd ran across the binding posts...had a few at Lowe's...just all #8 and #10. 

The best news is I got a call from Classic and they are going to pull a few in stock and measure them.  They are thinking I just got one that had the studs pressed in too far.

Once again, above and beyond expectations.   I'm hoping they report back they all clock in at 5/8" and I just have a lemon. 

For now, I'll hold off on investing in possible extension solutions.

[oldcarnut]

If ya can't get it straight let me know and maybe I can
fan up some for you.

[TexasStroker]

If ya can't get it straight let me know and maybe I can
fan up some for you.

Cool, thanks!  Our machinist was pretty excited about it when I ran it by him the other day, lol.

I'll get some time this weekend and try to see what size tubing I can fit in the dash frame and what not...I figure I've thought enough about it, I should at least find a solution...might help someone else out in the future.  It seems #12 is the most likely to not be stocked by hardware stores...go figure.

Classic said they have a new pad that is much more true to original, but of course costs more...I think I'll wind up going that route.  I'm still not sure this one covers as much forward area as the stocker...I'll try to remember to measure each one this weekend..I currently have my stock pad in the office at work.  It really is a nice looking pad, just has this mounting issue.

[TexasStroker]

Just an update (eh, more of a rant I guess) for anyone following along, or who will be in the same boat.

Classic Industries has agreed to take this pad back, but I held on to it while investigating other options.

Legendary had a 20% off sale over the Valentine's weekend and I saw they had the "new" $450 pad.  I cringe at that price (this is a seriously simple dash pad), but figured it was worth it to have something that would fit and allow me to progress on the interior and get to the exterior (grill install etc.).  I called them since I didn't get a response to my e-mail.  I dealt with a really nice guy who told me up front that they had some issues in this run of their dash pads where people reported installing them and then cinching them down with the speed nuts only to see the pad "pop up" from the frame.  I still don't know how this is possible on a 12-24 stud, but if the mfg. admits it, it must be an issue.  I asked if they were just lemons, or the issue hit the entire run of pads...He checked and they still had some.  It was late Friday when I called, so he said that he and a tech would test fit the pad on a Charger for me.

As promised, he called back Monday and told me the test fit all the pads they had and they all popped up.  I asked if I were to order one and wait the 4-5 weeks if it would have the same issue and he said that it would.  From what I understand they are now going to try and figure out what is causing this issue and fix it from there...

One other thing he told me was that their pads did fit correctly.  I mentioned the studs, and he said there pads had longer studs and were in fact longer overall...This is when the light bulb went off in my head...

I got out tonight after work and pulled the "new" pad back out...put it on the dash...confirmed the studs were still too short in a few of the slots and THEN slid my A-Pillars into place.  You know the "hugging" effect the A-Pillars have on the dash pad?  Yep, it was more of a butt up against effect with this new one.  Instead of the A-Pillars wrapping around that slimmed down end piece they just kind of touch.  In addition to the studs being too short, the pad itself is too short left to right    It may be an 1/8" or so +/- but I would call it 51 1/4" vs 51 1/2" (aftermarket vs factory).

I'd hung on to it thinking I could still machine the custom extensions...now I am left with the realization it won't do me much good to spend time designing and machining parts to extend the studs when the pad doesn't fit left to right.

For what it is worth, the factory holes in the dash are 3/8" in diameter except for Hole #4 (going left to right).  It is a vertical slot, that I assume is kind of the indicator for the pad install.  I'm pretty sure I'd have to drill it to go up to 1/4-20.

So, I will likely be sending the "new" pad I've got back to Classic since I can't fix the length issue.  I have no clue how long Legendary will be down and I've got no other leads outside of trying to recover this pad.

I am at the point where I am considering three things:
1-Trying to recover the factory pad myself
2-Seeing if an outfit like Just Dashes has a core they'd sell (I'm keeping mine...no clue what the charges are for their work)
3-Picking up an ABS cover and trying to cover it in vinyl
--On the Duster, I'm fine with a plastic cap...I wanted the Charger to have "soft trim" tying in the upper door panel pads etc.  And yes, I'd much rather put the $75 towards a proper dash pad, but there doesn't seem to be one available.

Has anyone successfully recovered their own dash pad?  Any tips?

Similarly, has anyone picked up a "dash cap" and been happy with it?  The way this is going, I can see me ordering one in and finding it is 1/2" too long, and 3/8" too short or something ridiculous.  Imo, you don't repop parts if they don't fit.  Universal stuff, sure...tell me to make it fit a Chrysler product.  Make/Model Specific?  I consider that inexcusable.

The whole interior upgrade is kind of on stand still due to the dash pad.  I need it to make sure my custom dash cover fits, then button down so I can install the gauge cluster, heater controls, glove box liner etc.  If anyone has had their car restored recently and you didn't do the work yourself, just know that gap between the A-Pillars and dash pad looks funny because it is and be warned your pad is likely held on by 2-3 of 6 speed nuts.  I suppose on the bright side, Classic and Legendary have both been nice and pleasant to deal with...just wish I had a pad that would fit.

[VegasCharger]

I had mine recovered for my 68 Charger(pics below). Not perfect but it works for me. If you're going concours resto this would NOT pass. Some wrinkles at the A/C Heater control area although I think the control will cover it up. Then again I'm aiming for a daily driver status when I'm done. I had a local upholstery shop do it, cost me $60.00 using their material. The lighting in these pics don't show the true shade that it is in real life. It's more of a darker black shade.

I have a 69-70 dash pad core if you go that direction

[TexasStroker]

That looks good to me...especially since I know it would fit L-R AND have studs that allow it to be mounted.

I'm going to check in with a local guy soon...I don't want to ship my factory pad across the country to be recovered...I've seen to many threads where people had issues.

[cdr]

ULTIMATE RIDES in El paso texas does them, I have no experience with them.

[TexasStroker]

ULTIMATE RIDES in El paso texas does them, I have no experience with them.

Well, that is at least a bit closer to home...I'll try to research them...Thanks!

[TexasStroker]

No progress on my end, but I meant to post this...

I saw the Auto Trader General Lee commercial last week and paid extra attention to it...At 0:09 you can see the huge gap between the pad and A-Pillar trim.  Later in the clip (0:41 for example), you can see that the pad has also arched up in the middle of the dash.  Whatever pad is on that car seems to have have both symptoms from both manufacturers!

You can see it here:

http://youtu.be/1XonxZvXEPE?t=9s