Stock vs Restomod

hollywood1336 · January 21, 2015, 01:05:30 PM

I certainly appreciate the guys who keep their cars true to the factory original design. And I appreciate the amount of work that goes into restoring them to factory original and maintaining them.
Now that I am driving my car (and loving it), and people are seeing it, I find there are more people, young and old, who agree with the whole restomod approach I have taken with my car verses people saying I should have kept it stock, regardless of original engine. They agree that the classic body lines should remain untouched, but the convenience of the new engine, suspension and interior make the car more desirable and drivable to them. People always mention better reliability with the newer motors but I tell them that the same reliability can be achieved with the original motors. The original 318 out of my car ran like a sewing machine, issue free. Still, I find more people like the idea of a restomod than keeping it original. The young guys would love an old muscle car but don't want to deal with the nickel and dime issues and the older guys I meet love the comfort and handling the newer suspension and interior provides. I tell all of them the same reliability and comfort can be accomplished with the stock cars but they don't seem interested.
Although not for sale, I have been offered 90k for my car, by a guy who I know has the money. But, until he shows the green it's all here say. As I have previously mentioned, I am 52k into the car and if I had to do it again without the mistakes and being much smarter, I could do it for 45k.
An original Hemi car should be kept original, a piece of history. And I know there are those who wont agree but I have seen some RT 440 cars at shows I have been to where just the suspension has been upgraded to IFS with rack and pinion and they are still worth the same or more as a stock RT 440 car.
If you put a long bow and a compound bow with fiber optics in front of Robin Hood, which would he have chosen.
This is probably a touchy subject but how many have had their cars at shows or Rallies or at the corner malt shop and had people admire them but say they would prefer the old body with modern conveniences, engine, suspension, interior etc.

SRT-440 · January 21, 2015, 01:11:20 PM

I'm a restomod kinda guy too...I have a 6.1 in a 70 Plymouth. I have the same wheels, but was wondering what sizes are yours? Mine are 18x8 front and 18x9.5 in the rear, but don't look as big as urs. I like the low wide look but not getting it with my setup.

I noticed the SRT badge..what engine u running?

hollywood1336 · January 21, 2015, 01:44:14 PM

Hey SRT-440, I have the same size wheels front and back as you with 40 series tires. I also have the Bill Reilly front suspension which I slightly modified to get the lower stance. I'm running a 2001 Viper V10 with Tremc 6 speed.

SRT-440 · January 21, 2015, 01:54:22 PM

Cool..maybe it's cuz yours is lowered.

You have an amazing car!! Good job on stuffing the V10 and 6 spd in.

roger440 · January 21, 2015, 04:36:04 PM

Did mine stock, but love the restomod thing. Figured mine should stay stock. But if id had a 318 or similar "unspecial" car, it would have been modded.

G-man · January 21, 2015, 04:55:35 PM

Not sure what restomod actually entails but, from what I believe... keep the car from the outside looking like the muscle car that it is and change the insides (engine, suspension, gearbox etc) to give it modern performance/reliability.

That way you got a a very good car that looks like the original beast. Once bodies start getting played with, shaved bumpers and whatever else... they lose there 'muscle' like look and start looking more like a modern car. I always believed in doing up the inside of the car while retaining the Beast that covers it. Maybe that is what restomod is, maybe it isn't.

hollywood1336 · January 21, 2015, 05:13:38 PM

I think you hit the nail on the head. Once you mees with the original lines of the body you have entered into a completely different build. The original lines of any muscle car should remain the same, engine, suspension and interior, that's my definition as well.

G-man · January 21, 2015, 05:23:42 PM

Nice car btw

Memphis Mopar · January 22, 2015, 12:44:35 AM

Hollywood You have an awesome Charger, Also I love the color.

sixty-niner · January 22, 2015, 01:21:50 AM

I agree with the pro-touring movement, I see no reason to spend a ton of money to put a car to stock spec when the stock spec wasn't very good in the first place. I hate green but your car is AMAZING!!! I love the color.
it must be a blast to drive.
ERIK

Stegs · January 22, 2015, 07:13:11 AM

Quote from: hollywood1336 on January 21, 2015, 01:05:30 PM
I certainly appreciate the guys who keep their cars true to the factory original design. And I appreciate the amount of work that goes into restoring them to factory original and maintaining them.
Now that I am driving my car (and loving it), and people are seeing it, I find there are more people, young and old, who agree with the whole restomod approach I have taken with my car verses people saying I should have kept it stock, regardless of original engine. They agree that the classic body lines should remain untouched, but the convenience of the new engine, suspension and interior make the car more desirable and drivable to them. People always mention better reliability with the newer motors but I tell them that the same reliability can be achieved with the original motors. The original 318 out of my car ran like a sewing machine, issue free. Still, I find more people like the idea of a restomod than keeping it original. The young guys would love an old muscle car but don't want to deal with the nickel and dime issues and the older guys I meet love the comfort and handling the newer suspension and interior provides. I tell all of them the same reliability and comfort can be accomplished with the stock cars but they don't seem interested.
Although not for sale, I have been offered 90k for my car, by a guy who I know has the money. But, until he shows the green it's all here say. As I have previously mentioned, I am 52k into the car and if I had to do it again without the mistakes and being much smarter, I could do it for 45k.
An original Hemi car should be kept original, a piece of history. And I know there are those who wont agree but I have seen some RT 440 cars at shows I have been to where just the suspension has been upgraded to IFS with rack and pinion and they are still worth the same or more as a stock RT 440 car.
If you put a long bow and a compound bow with fiber optics in front of Robin Hood, which would he have chosen.
This is probably a touchy subject but how many have had their cars at shows or Rallies or at the corner malt shop and had people admire them but say they would prefer the old body with modern conveniences, engine, suspension, interior etc.

exactly how i want my car to look when im done...except in R6 Red

very well done!!

Paul G · January 22, 2015, 08:09:55 AM

I sold my 73 Rallye 440 car because it was a low number car, only 700 ish produced. I believe it should be kept original, just my opinion. Bought my 72 to modify a little. It was a 318 column shift car. Do what you like to a run of the mill car. Again, my opinion.

The first thing people will ask, "is it original"? Original cars are great, I am glad there are those who want to preserve the originality of these cars. They are doing a service for future generations. Curator of a future museum piece. Thats not for me.

I like to modify, improve, customize, without making large changes. Keep it looking original, but not.

RIDELIKEHELL · January 22, 2015, 08:31:33 AM

Too each their own but I like both but modern upgrades like suspension & brakes are a few mods I made. From anyone who has been in my car says it's nothing like a 68 Charger is as far as road manners. I have the same wheels as well...beauty of a Car man!

Challenger340 · January 22, 2015, 09:02:15 AM

BTW, great looking Car, you should be proud

Agreed, do what you want according to your own tastes with the non-collectable versions.

I had a 318 1970 Charger once, and I would not have hesitated making changes to it as well.
But to be clear.... it was a completely different animal to drive anyways, from my 1969 R/T in pretty much every respect. NOT just performance, I am talking handling as well.
And just dumping a 440 into the 318 body, while improving power, would only have made the handling worse.

In the R/T Cars... things like heavier Torsion Bars, Sway Bars, heavier staggered Leaf Packs out back all made the R/T's far better/stiffer than even their 383 brethren.
Still a "truck" around town no matter..... but at highway speeds I find my R/T really quite decent, whereas my 318 car would have floated / bounced / body rolled off into the ditch above 80.... if it could get there ?

hollywood1336 · January 22, 2015, 09:57:13 AM

The car handles very nice, flat around corners, possibly a little too stiff in the front so I may loosen the adjustments on the coil overs. Acceleration is brutal, engine revs at 1400 rpm at 70 in sixth gear. Had it up to 90 on the freeway and it was very solid.

chargerperson · January 22, 2015, 11:30:17 AM

I went with restomod on a 67 charger as the engine was not original, nor period correct and needed some work. After driving my 2009 Challenger RT, it seemed like a good idea to upgrade the 67 as a restomod. Going with upgraded brakes, suspension, 6 speed and 6.4L but retaining original appearance. Lone exception for the original appearance are the tires which had to be larger to fit the brakes.

hollywood1336 · January 22, 2015, 12:13:32 PM

Hey Chargerperson, post a picture of your 67, I'd love to see it.

Yatzee · January 22, 2015, 12:46:59 PM

I have been busy "retomodding" my ride but I have never done anything or tossed anything that would not allow the next owner to go back to original. I'm not saying that I have two of everything but I can't be far off.
This is my ride, my way, the way I like it (and I do) but I have a lot of respect for cars 50 years plus in age
and I've seen work done on many forums that is nothing short of bastardization of national jewels. I think
many people appreciate more modern brakes, lighting, suspensions but when it finally comes to selling the
beast, they always point out what is not original and request a lower price. Keep the spare parts and offer
them to make the car the way they want it, just like you did.

hollywood1336 · January 22, 2015, 01:07:35 PM

I had to cut the firewall on the car to get the Viper motor in. Viper motors are about 4.75" longer than standard v8's. In doing that I had to take out the wiper motor. Customizing another wiper motor in there will be part of the tinkering phase of the car, however, this car will never see the rain. Other than that, if someone wanted to return it to stock by removing everything I have done it is possible to do.
I'm a fit and finish guy, I love seeing original stock cars where the owner has paid attention to the fit and finish under the hood. This is the motor in my car, it was important for me during the installation to keep it clean and make it look like the car came with this motor from the factory.

chargerperson · January 23, 2015, 10:05:08 PM

Quote from: hollywood1336 on January 22, 2015, 12:13:32 PM
Hey Chargerperson, post a picture of your 67, I'd love to see it.

Hollywood
Car is still a work in progress but should be done in 8-9 weeks. I have car in restoration shop as work is beyond my skills. Car has some sentimental value so I decided to go with a nice comprehensive restomod restoration. Not very user friendly but a bunch of pictures are at the below link - select "show more" and there are a lot of pictures - perhaps a few too many sheetmetal pics but gets better at the end.

Other than engine compartment, paint job is not yet wet sanded so it will look better.

http://www.premierrestony.com/#!67-charger/c1mb7 have to copy and paste link as it will default to main page otherwise

Also attached a few of the pictures I took on Monday - had to compress them for size limit....sorry they are so small

1965gp · January 23, 2015, 10:28:46 PM

I love the look of the resto mod cars. I agree that keeping the original lines is important, but the subtle body mods that people walk by and have to ask if it's factory are very cool. I have upgraded the wheels/stance/brakes with a resto mod look on several of my cars but haven't taken the plunge for a modern motor yet. I don't really need it as most of my cars are now used for taking the kids to school or family outings. I kind of had my fill with drag racing and never really caught the Autocross bug.

If I was building one car - it would be done exactly like yours (but orange with a flag on the roof) - very nicely done.

el dub · January 23, 2015, 10:54:06 PM

This is probably a touchy subject but how many have had their cars at shows or Rallies or at the corner malt shop and had people admire them but say they would prefer the old body with modern conveniences, engine, suspension, interior etc.

No one has really said that to me. Its more like what color is that, who painted it, how much hp. whats it worth, stuff like that. just car guys talk. motor, whatever, you know. Your car is sweet. I painted mine the same color I think. People like that color, that's for sure. To me your car is a resto mod. which I think is a car restored with a modded drive train, engine, tranny, rear end. When you start doing trick interiors and modded body like shaved handles, this is custom work or a custom car. Just my 2 cents. correct if wrong.

G-man · January 24, 2015, 12:30:12 AM

When you don't care about what other people say but how you feel driving the car then modern upgrades, oldschool body is definitely the best.

I mean who 'really' wants to drive a car that you stink in because it has no air-con, who 'really' wants a car that you have to press the brake real hard and HOPE it stops before you run into someone, who 'really' likes to drive in a muscle car that turns like a boat around corners and who 'really' want's a car that is no faster than mums new grocery sedan?

I mean, sure that is what we 'drive' (as I just described a stock Charger) but in reality, if money was not an issue etc, im pretty sure everyone sane would rather better brakes and modern performance over rubbish ones. Thats how people are. We spend to have better, not worse. So if the option was there, im pretty sure we would all have a good performing/stopping charger.

Of course, not everyone is sane and some would rather say "But I rather have crap brakes" "I rather have rubbish suspension"... we cant help these people.

Mike DC · January 24, 2015, 12:40:39 AM

QuoteI mean who 'really' wants to drive a car that you stink in because it has no air-con, who 'really' wants a car that you have to press the brake real hard and HOPE it stops before you run into someone, who 'really' likes to drive in a muscle car that turns like a boat around corners and who 'really' want's a car that is no faster than mums new grocery sedan?

I mean, sure that is what we 'drive' (as I just described a stock Charger) but in reality, if money was not an issue etc, im pretty sure everyone sane would rather better brakes and modern performance over rubbish ones. Thats how people are. We spend to have better, not worse. So if the option was there, im pretty sure we would all have a good performing/stopping charger.

If that was true then there wouldn't be nearly as much money invested in stock/stockish restorations. LOTS of people spend equal or greater money as it would take to make upgrades just fixing up the stock parts (knowingly). Some are worried about resale, others like the idea of a stock resto, but quite a few have simply grown to love these cars for their quirks, the good and the bad.

Ghoste · January 24, 2015, 08:53:11 AM

Quote from: G-man on January 24, 2015, 12:30:12 AM
When you don't care about what other people say but how you feel driving the car then modern upgrades, oldschool body is definitely the best.

I mean who 'really' wants to drive a car that you stink in because it has no air-con, who 'really' wants a car that you have to press the brake real hard and HOPE it stops before you run into someone, who 'really' likes to drive in a muscle car that turns like a boat around corners and who 'really' want's a car that is no faster than mums new grocery sedan?

I mean, sure that is what we 'drive' (as I just described a stock Charger) but in reality, if money was not an issue etc, im pretty sure everyone sane would rather better brakes and modern performance over rubbish ones. Thats how people are. We spend to have better, not worse. So if the option was there, im pretty sure we would all have a good performing/stopping charger.

Of course, not everyone is sane and some would rather say "But I rather have crap brakes" "I rather have rubbish suspension"... we cant help these people.

I guess I'm one of those people then but don't worry about not being able to "help" me, I don't need or want it.

Cncguy · January 24, 2015, 01:01:09 PM

I'm sure of the benefit of reliability, but do you get better gas mileage with the newer engines, in an old car?

G-man · January 24, 2015, 06:07:26 PM

Quote from: Ghoste on January 24, 2015, 08:53:11 AM
I guess I'm one of those people then but don't worry about not being able to "help" me, I don't need or want it.

It's ok Ghoste,

You were always special

Ghoste · January 24, 2015, 09:50:45 PM

Now you sound like that court appointed therapist they keep making me see.

Mike DC · January 24, 2015, 11:40:43 PM

QuoteI'm sure of the benefit of reliability, but do you get better gas mileage with the newer engines, in an old car?

Depends how far you take the retrofit. Newer cars have tall axle gearing AND overdrive gears. Fuel injection too.

If run a modern 6.1L Hemi retrofitted with carburetor & distributor, an old 727 trans, and a 3.91 axle gear . . . the mileage is going to suck just like an old motor.

Modern aerodynamic bodywork helps at 70+ mph but it has very little impact at 40-50mph.

MxRacer855 · January 25, 2015, 01:04:43 AM

Beautiful car! I'd love to see more of this one.

Jeff

hollywood1336 · January 28, 2015, 01:02:04 PM

Most of my driving has been locally while I prove out the reliability of my car. I have had it on the freeway for a limited time at 70 mph. With the 3.73 rear axel and 6 speed tremec the engine runs at about 1450 RPM in sixth gear at that speed. Had a short burst up to 90 to overtake someone and it felt rock steady. Once I take it for a longer drive I will give feedback on gas mileage but I'm betting at 70 with that RPM I should see 18-20 on the freeway. I will be very happy with that out of V10 motor.
Round town is a completely different matter!

hatersaurusrex · January 31, 2015, 01:21:33 PM

Quote from: Mike DC (formerly miked) on January 24, 2015, 11:40:43 PM

If run a modern 6.1L Hemi retrofitted with carburetor & distributor, an old 727 trans, and a 3.91 axle gear . . . the mileage is going to suck just like an old motor.

Why in the world would anyone want to do this though? I just don't get the appeal. I'd put a new hemi in a car if it still had all the goods on it (trans, ecu, etc), but putting a carb/dizzy on a newer motor just nerfs all the performance features like varable valve timing, hot ecu, etc. You're taking something new and making it old. - the opposite of cool. For my money, give me a 440 and put all the new goodies in it - way cooler than saying 'I butchered a 6.1 Hemi'.

JB400 · January 31, 2015, 01:47:55 PM

I think the term you're looking for is called retro, and yes, it is cool. We wouldn't have the current Challenger if it wasn't. There are trade offs for the look of course, as you mention. It's just a matter of which is more important, looks or performance

Mike DC · January 31, 2015, 02:00:55 PM

QuoteWhy in the world would anyone want to do this though? I just don't get the appeal. I'd put a new hemi in a car if it still had all the goods on it (trans, ecu, etc), but putting a carb/dizzy on a newer motor just nerfs all the performance features like varable valve timing, hot ecu, etc. You're taking something new and making it old. - the opposite of cool. For my money, give me a 440 and put all the new goodies in it - way cooler than saying 'I butchered a 6.1 Hemi'.

Well, I didn't say lots of people would want to do it. Just making an example.

RamZCharger · February 05, 2015, 04:27:33 PM

My 6.4 that somehow landed on BangShift . . .

MxRacer855 · February 05, 2015, 10:38:27 PM

Looks great!

hollywood1336 · February 06, 2015, 11:59:53 AM

very nice, the newer motors look so clean in the Charger engine bay, much cleaner and less cluttered than they look in the cars they came out of. I can get my hands on any part of the motor in my car for maintenance.

el dub · February 06, 2015, 03:33:54 PM

Hollywood, how did you register your car in Calif ? Was it very hard. When you smog it, it's as a v10 or what? Did you have to jump through a lot of hoops? Sweet ride. just curious. thanks

hollywood1336 · February 06, 2015, 04:12:43 PM

Hey El dub, 73' and older cars are smog exempt, so no smog required. The law used to state that any car over 25 years was smog exempt but still had to retain the original engine and smog equipment as installed from the factory. But 73 and older cars are considered antiques and do not have to be smogged.
Technically, even the pre 73 cars, if fitted with a smog pump are supposed to retain them legally, however, the police never bother with the old muscle cars. I've only ever seen one guy pulled over for noise. If you get down to the small writting, I'm sure I have violated some California law by putting the Viper motor in there, but again, the cops never bother the muscle car guys.
I'm sure in the end though, the Viper motor that's in it now runs cleaner than the 150k 318 that came out of it.

Nacho-RT74 · February 06, 2015, 08:26:38 PM

I think there is a middle line between the stock resto amd a resto mod, and is an upgrade resto... Meaning with this, a stock system but upgraded performance parts... Such as ign system, touchs on original engine, better brakes MADE for the stock parts ( drilled/slotted rotors, HiPo pads, but on stock spindles and calipers ) and stuff like that. Replacement parts for the stock assembly.

EVERYTHING able to get it backwards

el dub · February 06, 2015, 08:30:39 PM

Quote from: hollywood1336 on February 06, 2015, 04:12:43 PM
Hey El dub, 73' and older cars are smog exempt, so no smog required. The law used to state that any car over 25 years was smog exempt but still had to retain the original engine and smog equipment as installed from the factory. But 73 and older cars are considered antiques and do not have to be smogged.
Technically, even the pre 73 cars, if fitted with a smog pump are supposed to retain them legally, however, the police never bother with the old muscle cars. I've only ever seen one guy pulled over for noise. If you get down to the small writting, I'm sure I have violated some California law by putting the Viper motor in there, but again, the cops never bother the muscle car guys.
I'm sure in the end though, the Viper motor that's in it now runs cleaner than the 150k 318 that came out of it.

MxRacer855 · February 06, 2015, 09:55:59 PM

Quote from: Nacho-RT74 on February 06, 2015, 08:26:38 PM
I think there is a middle line between the stock resto amd a resto mod, and is an upgrade resto... Meaning with this, a stock system but upgraded performance parts... Such as ign system, touchs on original engine, better brakes MADE for the stock parts ( drilled/slotted rotors, HiPo pads, but on stock spindles and calipers ) and stuff like that. Replacement parts for the stock assembly.

EVERYTHING able to get it backwards

I agree!

I love all 3 options. Mine will be right in the middle. Wilwood brakes/calipers, Reilly Motorsports coil over shocks and 4-link system, power steering and ac (on a non-ps/ac car), and a few other things, but it will still look like a classic Charger on the interior/exterior.

Anyway, great cars guys!

Jeff

Wicked72 · February 09, 2015, 01:29:24 PM

Amazing car. I love stock cars but I will never own anything special since it would be a travesty to make it a resto mod. Now my standard 72 charger..Its on and my budget is the limit...oh wait i guess it will be stock to

jk

hollywood1336 · February 09, 2015, 04:24:06 PM

I my opinion, the Dodge Charger, especially the Gen 2's, inside and out, is one of the most beautiful cars ever built. The lines and styling for the day were way ahead of it's time. Had my car been an RT car, I would have struggled changing anything from stock.
I have included a picture of the interior of my car, my daughter added the skull and X-bones so they may have to go. The carbon fiber came from a company my brother works at. I still have to add the covers on the bottom half of the dash under the carbon fiber, they will just be black.

TexasStroker · February 09, 2015, 11:14:56 PM

Quote from: hollywood1336 on February 09, 2015, 04:24:06 PM
I my opinion, the Dodge Charger, especially the Gen 2's, inside and out, is one of the most beautiful cars ever built. The lines and styling for the day were way ahead of it's time. Had my car been an RT car, I would have struggled changing anything from stock.
I have included a picture of the interior of my car, my daughter added the skull and X-bones so they may have to go. The carbon fiber came from a company my brother works at. I still have to add the covers on the bottom half of the dash under the carbon fiber, they will just be black.

Nice...is that a full on custom console, or something you plucked from the aftermarket?

hollywood1336 · February 09, 2015, 11:29:27 PM

Full custom dash. I could never find anything aftermarket that looked good.

TexasStroker · February 10, 2015, 01:27:10 AM

Quote from: hollywood1336 on February 09, 2015, 11:29:27 PM
Full custom dash. I could never find anything aftermarket that looked good.

Ha, I could tell that...I was actually asking about the center console. I'm thinking it looks custom too though.

I'm planning on building one up to the lower dash and then extending it forward to house speakers...similar to yours, but a bit bigger.

Love the car!

Ghoste · February 10, 2015, 06:31:33 AM

hollywood, if your daughter added the skull and crossbones, you CANNOT take it out.

hollywood1336 · February 12, 2015, 12:49:14 PM

Yea, I know Ghoste, that's why it's still there. I went in the house to get a drink and when I came back out into the garage she had put it in. I didn't actually notice it because in cenrtain light it's hard to see. I took it to a small gathering and someone said something about it. My daughter said it looked cool.

chargerperson · February 14, 2015, 05:16:06 PM

Picture of 69 Charger where my 67 is being restored. They plan to make a restomod including a custom interior and a few minor body modifications: removing the door handles and side marker lights. I personally would have kept the handles. Car will likely be similar to mine: 6.4L, RMS suspension, new brakes, etc. Difference being I am going with original interior, no body modifications

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