thank you for your service

[el dub]

NOW GO HOME. Anyone here do there time in the military from the late 60's to early 70's. Did you notice anything different from when you got out and the early 90's when those vets got out. I did not hear a lot of thank you's when I got out.  I was wondering what caused the media to start honoring these vets. And it got me to thinking. All of the vets, from then till now still have the same old problems when the thanks are over. Trying to get on with their lives with NO REAL SUPPORT. So the way I look at it, which is just my opinion and you may not agree with it is, its all a bunch of bull shit  generated by the govt who initiated the thank our vets via the media. What do you all think. Are our great veterans getting the support they need to continue on with there lives? I will tell you one thing. The va hospital in fresno has had one addition to the structure in the 50 years I have been paying attention. All the other hospitals in fresno, if not brand new, have at least quadrupled in size. So is saying thanks enough? Sorry for the rant, I am starting to question the govt a little to much with all the bs going on in the middle east and a sorry ass spook for president. Was he in the military?

[ITSA426]

No one said thanks back when I got out.  I got flipped off at SEATAC on my way to report for RVN.  A buddy of mine left his uniform in a trash can and changed into civilian clothes while passing through DEN on the way home.  It was a different time.  The media was able to bring some of the horror of war right into your living room every night, in living color, and people were becoming aware of what was really going on in the world.  But all in all I doubt it has much to do with the Commander in Chief.  If that were the case, Vet's services would have become legendary during the last administration.  I think the way Vets are treated is terrible for what we ask of them, but so long as we deny the real cost of our military industrial complex it isn't going to get much better.  If we brought back the draft the military might reflect a better representation of society, but that wouldn't necessarily give us the best soldiers.  War shouldn't be a career field, and we shouldn't go to war without giving our entire society an opportunity to participate, by either direct action, or by paying an immediate share of the whole cost.  Profit shouldn't affect our foreign policy.  Today's society doesn't sacrifice for our military policy and that leaves most people removed from the hard issues.  Too bad for that.  Sorry if it looks like I'm on a rant but I'm real tired of summer soldiers and sunshine patriots.

[Mike DC]

No one said thanks back when I got out.  I got flipped off at SEATAC on my way to report for RVN.  A buddy of mine left his uniform in a trash can and changed into civilian clothes while passing through DEN on the way home.  It was a different time.  The media was able to bring some of the horror of war right into your living room every night, in living color, and people were becoming aware of what was really going on in the world.  But all in all I doubt it has much to do with the Commander in Chief.  If that were the case, Vet's services would have become legendary during the last administration.  I think the way Vets are treated is terrible for what we ask of them, but so long as we deny the real cost of our military industrial complex it isn't going to get much better.  If we brought back the draft the military might reflect a better representation of society, but that wouldn't necessarily give us the best soldiers.  War shouldn't be a career field, and we shouldn't go to war without giving our entire society an opportunity to participate, by either direct action, or by paying an immediate share of the whole cost.  Profit shouldn't affect our foreign policy.  Today's society doesn't sacrifice for our military policy and that leaves most people removed from the hard issues.  Too bad for that.  Sorry if it looks like I'm on a rant but I'm real tired of summer soldiers and sunshine patriots.

[twodko]

I served in the Navy 70-76 as an aircraft wrench bender mostly
on museum pieces like scooters, Phantoms and especially Huey's.
Anybody remember the "Jesus nuts"? Nevermind, I digress.
Shitty time for vets and sad thankless homecomings.

The jackwagon politicians have very short memories..........
Vietnam-Iraq/Afganistan same same.

The difference now for vets is the national conscience feels
the guilt for treating us so badly back then and embraces
service members for who they are. Men and women in service
to thier country and it's people..........NOT the corporate government.
Those who have offered "thanks to me" since then, while thier intentions are good, doesn't mean squat.........
too little too late.

I would venture to say those coming back from the sandbox don't want
to be thanked either. They want and need help to be whole again.
They just want to come back to the world they left.
Unfortunately that world is gone for them like it was for us hence the awful fight to find
some semblance of what once was. Trying to reintegrate back into "home"
is often worse than being in the shit.
Of course there are veterans clinics and hospitals that are not stepping up
to do right by the returning vets but most if them are giving vets excellent care.
Again driven by national shame and guilt. It's still same same just a different generation.

Finally, in regard to the "spook" comment, it's the racist mentality like that that continues
to poison society and the minds of the young. If that's your attitude YOU are part of the problem
not part of the solution so stow it!  
Every president has pissed off large portions of society and always will.
If you are unable to respect the person because what they do/don't do,
respect the office.

[ITSA426]

I well remember the Jesus nut, and how it got to be called that.  I've got 20 years in military aircraft starting as a UH-1D, H and C and M/F crew chief/door gunner in Vietnam.  Hard to believe the Huey ever became obsolete.  It did its job so well.

I wanted to address the spook comment also but that doesn't even need to be acknowledged.  Sorrowful!  Some life lessons are learned the hard way.  Stow it indeed.

[nvrbdn]

well, I was in the air force in 74. didn't have to go to nam, but wore the ribbons. I was injured when I was taking an ejection seat out of a 105. fell 18 feet to the blacktop. the doc's weren't much back then. they missed several things about my injuries. I did get disability for some of the injuries. fast forward to a couple years ago. while being in pain I was at the v.a. hospital in st. Louis. they said that the two crushed vertabre in my neck that my regular doc found cant be thought about because my original report only says head and lower back. since they are spine, they can't be head. then when they did the lower back the doctor said he couldn't find anything, my pain is in my head. so they sent me home. I had to go to my doc again and he had asked for some x-rays and when the kid got done with them, he said to me "you ok? you must be in some real pain." I said, did you see something?  he said  well im not the dr. so he has to read them, but you have a bad spur. I said  is it hard to see?  he said  my grandma could see this one.  why wouldn't the v.a. dr. just say that a week earlier rather than say that my pain is in my head? I don't think they are on the side of the patient. plus the other dr. at the v.a. hospital told me it was a good thing they didn't notice the damaged neck back in 75 or they would have butchered me up and probably I wouldn't be able to turn my head at all. he knows it came from the fall, but says I have to go back and file a new claim and start all over.

[charge69]

I spent 4 years in the Marine Corps including 19 months in Vietnam as a crew chief and door gunner on a UH34-D. Actually made E-5 Sergeant in 17 months but, rate was pretty wide open in my field back then! Got shot down twice but managed to survive Vietnam with only a hernia which was operated on and repaired back stateside at an Army hospital (Ft. Leavenworth Army Hospital) as my base I was stationed at was so small it did not have a medical unit. The records of my surgery are lost in the ozone never to be found! Oh Surprise!
I did get Service-connected benefits for my hearing loss and tinnitus a few years ago as my service in Helos and jets (Aircraft engine mechanic) could be verified.
I worked for 12 years for the State of Texas helping vets thru the maze that benefits can be and am here to tell you it can be so daunting, a lot of vets would just give up! Everyone that applies should get help from a Service Organization. I was accredited all the way up to the Board of Veterans Appeals in Washington D.C. with the VFW, American Legion, Blinded Veterans of America, the State of Texas and a few other organizations.
Getting benefits for an injury or illness that happened during your military active duty is not as easy as most think. I cannot and will not go into details here but, .................... Get professional help if you can. The Service Organizations charge nothing to help you and have a better chance of success than you alone.

P.S.  When I returned home from Vietnam and, actually, any time I travelled by plane, I was always treated with respect but never thanked for my service!  That did not come about until much later when society decided it was "cool" to thank a vet! I thought it was nice but, "too little, too late".

[twodko]

I am grateful to share bitch sessions with you guys!

[nvrbdn]

I know what you are talking about with the lost records. I had a 2nd lt. tell me to go to the on base hospital to get my records for him. he was my psychiatrist due to my fall. when I brought them back he told me to make copies for him, me, and 1 to send to my parents house because my records would get lost when I went to be discharged. he was right. the hospital couldn't remember my treatment during my processing out. all the way until I dropped a copy on the commanders desk. thank you lt. tartansky. you saved me and I remember your name to this day.

[ITSA426]

Carl, I took your earlier advice about my case and, working with my rep, got a favorable decision on part of my case.   Part is still in limbo and I am working on an appeal for part of it.  I think the VA has been reasonable so far but incredibly slow to work with.  Perhaps congress can speed them up by cutting funding and maybe close another office or two.  Learning the system is incredibly laborious but I have pretty good documentation.  All in all a lesson in cynicism.  Maybe I'll get a brand new Chinese made American flag to fly in my front yard.

I love the sound of radial engines but can't imagine them practical in helicopters - or tanks.  Lesson for anyone reading this is document, document and document, even if it doesn't seem important at the time.  One issue I'm dealing with right now is over my comments an investigating officer deleted from a report because he didn't think them relevant to the report.

Long as we're here, does anyone know the difference between a fairy tale and a war story?

[el dub]

I do. Your government is a fairy tail.

[ITSA426]

My government???

[el dub]

Yes, if you live in America; Twodko, you should have just said STFU but maybe you are more pc than me. Je suis Charlie.   I didn't mean spook, I meant muslem.    He is a sorry ass in my book and did nothing for the middle class along with every president before him going back to 1965; but he is doing a hell of a good job if your poor. And I hear he is going to try and tax the rich.  That should create a new voter base for the next president who will be a woman if the media has anything to say. And they do. You know Hilary and bill have a net worth of 68 million being a pol. awesome. But anyway, when the race riots start you just run out there with your hands in the air and find out if anybody really likes us old honkeys.

[twodko]

Just my opinion but.........

We haven't had a "for the people, by the people" government
since the end of WW2.....quite possibly well before that.

By the end of WW2 the military industrial complex WAS the government
in this country. Read........corporate America.

The official government figure heads from the state level on
up are nothing more than big money, corporate driven, lobbyist directed
"bought" officials. I'm not a conspiracy theory zealot but gentlemen
this is the shadow government.
Money is government. The office of the POTUS is bought and paid for
by big money donors. Same same on down the line.

It's a shit sandwich they've been feeding us for decades.

[twodko]

Yes, if you live in America; Twodko, you should have just said STFU but maybe you are more pc than me. Je suis Charlie.   I didn't mean spook, I meant muslem.    He is a sorry ass in my book and did nothing for the middle class along with every president before him going back to 1965; but he is doing a hell of a good job if your poor. And I hear he is going to try and tax the rich.  That should create a new voter base for the next president who will be a woman if the media has anything to say. And they do. You know Hilary and bill have a net worth of 68 million being a pol. awesome. But anyway, when the race riots start you just run out there with your hands in the air and find out if anybody really likes us old honkeys.

Sir, STFU is not the way I speak to people.......has zip to do with being PC.
I respect the opinions of others but also speak mine clearly without ambiguity.
Je suis Charlie indeed! Good bless him and all the other poor souls slaughtered that day
by Muslim radicals. That's muslim not Muslem by the way.
Being PC, which doesn't mean much to me, has nothing to do with
distinguishing between the followers of true Islam and those who twist the words of
the Quran to justify the merciless slaughter of innocents in the name of God and thier
insistence that the world will be a better place under strict Sharia law.
Throughout history many have perpetrated crimes against humanity in the name
of God. Same same these radical bozos.

The media in this country is a shameful sensationalist bastardization of what was
once journalism. No question there. The only way to get any true idea of what's
really going on is to read, read, read every source of current events one can find and
even then it's a crap shoot as to what the true geopolitical picture is.

Whomever gets elected next or even in my lifetime is irrevelent because they will
have bought the office just like those before them.
There will be no race riots, there will be class riots.

IMO the real horror of it all is that a full on revolution is the only path to change.
The reality of that is revolution will never be an option because we, the population,
won't stand a chance against the corporate forces that will be brought to bear against us.
Ultimately the most dangerous enemy is each other.

[bull]

Finally, in regard to the "spook" comment, it's the racist mentality like that that continues
to poison society and the minds of the young. If that's your attitude YOU are part of the problem
not part of the solution so stow it!  
Every president has pissed off large portions of society and always will.
If you are unable to respect the person because what they do/don't do,
respect the office.

I may agree with you regarding the word he used but I certainly understand the sentiment. Our sitting POS couldn't  be bothered to attend the funeral of Chris Kyle, lower the flag to half staff or even make a written statement when he was killed but he'll get all sentimental about some useless wannabe cop-killing rapper that dies. We can respect the office but we don't have to respect the puke residing there.

[ITSA426]

I think now that we have dropped to anger and name calling it's probably time to just put a dignified lock on this thread. 

[bull]

That doesn't anger you at all? Does it maybe make you stop and wonder a little? Just curious.

[charge69]

To Bull:  yes, it angers and frustrates me to think the President would react the way he has on both situations! I, long ago, lost respect for the man and this just adds fuel to the fire.

To ITSA426 :   Glad you got help with your claim and that "Wheel of Justice" turns ever so slowly, but it does turn.  Don't let it frustrate you into giving up.

The old 9-cylinder radial with 1820 cu. in. in my chopper (UH-34D) was a noisy, rattling, vibrating, scary engine but, they were actually pretty reliable! Complex as they were, they seemed to run pretty well! Bye the way, that engine had a "total loss" oiling system!  Try that today with EPA regs!

[twodko]

Finally, in regard to the "spook" comment, it's the racist mentality like that that continues
to poison society and the minds of the young. If that's your attitude YOU are part of the problem
not part of the solution so stow it!  
Every president has pissed off large portions of society and always will.
If you are unable to respect the person because what they do/don't do,
respect the office.

I may agree with you regarding the word he used but I certainly understand the sentiment. Our sitting POS couldn't  be bothered to attend the funeral of Chris Kyle, lower the flag to half staff or even make a written statement when he was killed but he'll get all sentimental about some useless wannabe cop-killing rapper that dies. We can respect the office but we don't have to respect the puke residing there.

We're on the same page Bull.

Tom

[el dub]

Yeh it got a little off topic there from the word spook. Thing is I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks and I know the difference between a black man, a nigger, and a spook. BTW Twodko, je suis Charlie is not a person. Its the French equivalent of our first amendment. Remember that one? Freedom of speech. You know what today is right.  Martin Luther didn't get where he was by saying its to hard, I can't do it. Class wars? What classes are those? The black race has gotten where it is by having a few riots. They are not scared. And they achieved some of their goals that way because guess what? The media was involved.
Our constitution  was written how long ago? It isn't due for a few changes. All those asshole pols talk about change, but it will be change that cost you money. Change for the better? Oh, cheap gas. How long? Not. How  much money do we owe a communist country. Who back when I was younger, were our enemies.  I'm confused on that one. How about Cuba? Next? I am a firm believer in that you need violence to affect a change nowadays. Or something else that has that kind of leverage. And I know for sure our vets need our help. So, sorry if I offended somebody with a poor choice of words. Oh well, maybe liven up the forum a little bit, eh. BTW its the Pats and Seahawks in a week or two.

[Mike DC]

Oh, cheap gas. How long? Not. How  much money do we owe a communist country. Who back when I was younger, were our enemies.  I'm confused on that one. How about Cuba? Next?

We get cheap gas.  You disregard that and only look for indirect downsides.  

If we had unusually high gas prices right now, would you be brushing off the price & praising it for the indirect benefits?  LOL.

I am a firm believer in that you need violence to affect a change nowadays. Or something else that has that kind of leverage.

Like having some riots?  

[AKcharger]

I was in the Air Force once...hooray for me! 

[el dub]

Oh, cheap gas. How long? Not. How  much money do we owe a communist country. Who back when I was younger, were our enemies.  I'm confused on that one. How about Cuba? Next?

We get cheap gas.  You disregard that and only look for indirect downsides.  

If we had unusually high gas prices right now, would you be brushing off the price & praising it for the indirect benefits?  LOL.

Don't know what your laughing at but the gas goes down, the food goes up> I believe we have enough gas in this country to have cheap gas prices for a long, long time.  It would also create many, many jobs. And not a bunch of minimum wage jobs which is what obumfuck wants so we can be part of the new world order. Who the fuck wants to be part of the new world order. Not me. I want to be part of the United States order.
       If you think this nation is going forward in the right direction I'm happy for you. I don't think it is and am unhappy.

I am a firm believer in that you need violence to affect a change nowadays. Or something else that has that kind of leverage.

Like having some riots?  

Do YOU not think riots accomplish anything. Heard of Frergison Mo. Those little riots caused every police force to buy a camera for every cop in America. How much do you think that cost? Was it in the budget? I know those cops have more power and money than they ever had in recent history. Why were these cops not already wearing cameras. With all the stinking lawyers in this country why were they not already wearing them to cover their asses. I know why, because we think cops are always telling the truth and are not liars. Because that's what your mon and dad taught you. Ha Ha. But, ask black people or any other minority if that's true. Every riot in this country since the 60's has caused change. So yes, I think violence works. We are violent by nature don't forget. WWI, WW2, violence. Terrorists in france caused them to change what they do in the paper. Eat crow with this modern society. But those frenchies are used to eating crow as they are the epitome of liberal. So, when you bend over for terrorism, you are going to get it in the shorts.
       Did you notice in the Phillipines the pope brought out six million people to see him. Do you think you could get six million americans to stand up at one time and say NO MORE. In a pigs ass. But, you could get six million blacks to stand up and unify. So, yes, I think violence does work. If not violence then another form of leverage or a force multiplier that is just as strong as violence.
        What I would like to see. Six million men standing together at the main VA CLINIC in Washington dc, with guns if need be. AND ORDERING CHANGE. Imagine what would happen if every person in America said we are not paying taxes unless the change comes. Nothing would happen to anyone as there is not  enough jails to put us all in. Yet.


       

[twodko]

Violence to effect societal change breeds anarchy. Anarchy would bring about the collapse of society as we
know it this country. Consider all of the recent riots for "social change". Those whose voice needed to be heard
the most we're far overshadowed by those who could have cared less about the issue. These "throw away" people see it as little more than a vehicle to destroy public/private property, steal and assault people.
Peaceful, constant nationwide "in their political faces" pressure will bring about positive change faster than
burning down properties, stealing and then crying foul.

As far as cops always telling the truth or anyone else for that matter........everybody lies and everybody
is racist to one extent or another. I believe the majority of lawyers are far more inclined to further the agenda of the ultraliberal minority over the wishes of the majority.
Because of this state and federal monies should have been spent for body cameras to protect the LEO's and civilians a long time ago. The technology has affordably existed for quite a while now.
Of course law enforcement has more power than ever before but this isn't Mayberry RFD either.

The terrorist actions in France have only redoubled the French resolve to protect their rights to free speech. The jihadis have not forced the French people to capitualte at all. If the French are an epitome of anything it is a philosophy of "Live and let live" within the rules society has put in place for the benefit of everyone. Also like most western countries the French fiercely protect the civil rights of people while at the same time carrying a very big stick. Again like most western countries they use great restraint in the use of that big stick........as a civilized society should. It's also true that no country makes all the right choices all the time.
Evidence of this in our country is the decision to lay waste to our immigration laws. Asinine decision to be sure.
People in this country illegally have broken our laws and are bleeding our social services dry. These same people also do the jobs lazy Americans won't. There should be an efficient path to citizenship for the millions of illegals already here........with background checks, no criminal activity and functioning as productive people. Those who are here to leech off the generous nature of the United States, commit crimes etc should be deported with prejudice. No question.

Condescension, vitriol and hatefulness are not supporting much less validationing your arguments.