Six callers ahead of us Jimmy......

[TUFCAT]

they had it listed as principle driver. (I drive it Less than 400 miles/year).

I decided to get it covered under antique where it should be.

said because of photos, that my car was "used for racing" and they couldn't insure it.?

Said the "equipment" on car deemed it a "race car". ( roll cage= SAFER, big tires in back and hood scoop)

State Farm is NOT a good neighbor, you are NOT in good hAnds with Allstate, and Nationwide is NOT on your side. BEWARE  gentlemen....

Beware? ....because they finally caught up with you?  It wasn't your primary vehicle as you reported now you're bitchin' about it?    Basically you've been scamming them for all these years and its the insurance companies fault?

Should they just believe your story that the roll cage, tubbed wheel wells, built 440, and hood scoop make it safer for you and your family to get groceries and go to the mall?   Really Cooter....  .

Let's just say for instance you had a claim, they would find out sooner or later. Its my guess you'd be bitching like crazy if they didn't pay the claim on your "daily driver" primary car either.  

The other problem with guys like you who are underinsured, is when you expect companies to treat you like a king, (while believing every bullshit story you tell them).  This car is not your primary, never will be, and it should be insured for what it is....  

[Cooter]

Wow Tuff. Funny thing, I asked that very same thing when they kept after me to bundle all my antiques.
never mentioned anything bout roll cages. Big tires. Or hood scoops. Guess as long as they insured a slant 6 car back in 97, they just assumed it was sit a slant 6 car huh? They just assumed that if they informed me of their restrictions, that they wouldn't have made as much money off my ass??
btw: it was covered under FULL coverage (comprehensive for the geeks), and I asked if they came out and found the car in this condition, they would certainly cancel on me at that time. The phone went silent.
I'm from a small town in case you didn't know. Round here, we are like 'family'. My mistake.
Instead, my keen eye caught their coverage on one of the thousands of statements they sent me, and figured once pics of the car after about 15 years, wouldn't have changed one bit. Yeah, it was my fault as I've stated for being naive for thinking they had a good customers interest at heart.

Again, no biggie. They will get no more of my "Rich man's toy" money...

[TUFCAT]

Wow Tuff. Funny thing, I asked that very same thing when they kept after me to bundle all my antiques.
never mentioned anything bout roll cages. Big tires. Or hood scoops. Guess as long as they insured a slant 6 car back in 97, they just assumed it was sit a slant 6 car huh? They just assumed that if they informed me of their restrictions, that they wouldn't have made as much money off my ass??
Instead, my keen eye caught their coverage on one of the thousands of statements they sent me, and figured once pics of the car after about 15 years, wouldn't have changed one bit. Yeah, it was my fault as I've stated for being naive for thinking they had a good customers interest at heart.

Again, no biggie. They will get no more of my "Rich man's toy" money...

Cooter, you know I love you man. But Insurance policy is clear that if you modify an item you need to keep the insurance company informed.

Let's just say you add a diamond or two to your wife's wedding set, if their insurance company wasn't informed and there's a loss, you would only get what the original insured value was.....or they might not insure it at all.  just sayin.

[Cooter]

Wow Tuff. Funny thing, I asked that very same thing when they kept after me to bundle all my antiques.
never mentioned anything bout roll cages. Big tires. Or hood scoops. Guess as long as they insured a slant 6 car back in 97, they just assumed it was sit a slant 6 car huh? They just assumed that if they informed me of their restrictions, that they wouldn't have made as much money off my ass??
Instead, my keen eye caught their coverage on one of the thousands of statements they sent me, and figured once pics of the car after about 15 years, wouldn't have changed one bit. Yeah, it was my fault as I've stated for being naive for thinking they had a good customers interest at heart.

Again, no biggie. They will get no more of my "Rich man's toy" money...

Cooter, you know I love you man. But law is very clear on insurance if you modify the car you should keep the insurance company informed

I'm all but positive everybody here calls their insurance company FIRST thing after gettin a speed in ticket right??
I'm all but positive everybody that buys an aftermarket supercharger for their 2009 Charger/Challenger calls and faxes right over a copy of that 1000 HP @ rear tires dyno sheet....

[ws23rt]

Wow Tuff. Funny thing, I asked that very same thing when they kept after me to bundle all my antiques.
never mentioned anything bout roll cages. Big tires. Or hood scoops. Guess as long as they insured a slant 6 car back in 97, they just assumed it was sit a slant 6 car huh? They just assumed that if they informed me of their restrictions, that they wouldn't have made as much money off my ass??
Instead, my keen eye caught their coverage on one of the thousands of statements they sent me, and figured once pics of the car after about 15 years, wouldn't have changed one bit. Yeah, it was my fault as I've stated for being naive for thinking they had a good customers interest at heart.

Again, no biggie. They will get no more of my "Rich man's toy" money...

Cooter, you know I love you man. But law is very clear on insurance if you modify the car you should keep the insurance company informed

I'm all but positive everybody here calls their insurance company FIRST thing after gettin a speed in ticket right??
I'm all but positive everybody that buys an aftermarket supercharger for their 2009 Charger/Challenger calls and faxes right over a copy of that 1000 HP @ rear tires dyno sheet....

It's human nature to feel a bit of good when we get away with something.  It after all is payback for all the times we were stiffed.
I felt this way in my early days when I got over 85 traffic tickets.  My thoughts for the positive were along the lines of how many times I didn't get caught.

[TUFCAT]

Wow Tuff. Funny thing, I asked that very same thing when they kept after me to bundle all my antiques.
never mentioned anything bout roll cages. Big tires. Or hood scoops. Guess as long as they insured a slant 6 car back in 97, they just assumed it was sit a slant 6 car huh? They just assumed that if they informed me of their restrictions, that they wouldn't have made as much money off my ass??
Instead, my keen eye caught their coverage on one of the thousands of statements they sent me, and figured once pics of the car after about 15 years, wouldn't have changed one bit. Yeah, it was my fault as I've stated for being naive for thinking they had a good customers interest at heart.

Again, no biggie. They will get no more of my "Rich man's toy" money...

Okay, I still love you man....and there's no issues with you personally Big Lug    .....but, I do have something to say about your insurance problem.

I've gone on record to say I hate fakes so how can I approve of this?  The car was a basic /6 Dart insured for $30K. As much as a I admire you for that, you've got more than you've paid for plain and simple.  Sounds like you're gonna have to pay the piper going forward.  

Hey if I was the company insuring your slant six Dart for $30k, I'd be asking the same questions and requesting pictures (.....and frankly you would also).  

Its no biggie.  I just don't see why you're so pissed at the insurance company for doing a little bit of investigative work. You've received cheaper insurance for years, so you really shouldn't be complaining at all.

By the way we're all getting older..... and the older we get, the more honest we should be.  My two cents worth.  

[TUFCAT]

I'm all but positive everybody here calls their insurance company FIRST thing after gettin a speed in ticket right??
I'm all but positive everybody that buys an aftermarket supercharger for their 2009 Charger/Challenger calls and faxes right over a copy of that 1000 HP @ rear tires dyno sheet....I will agree that most people don't have money falling out of their asses to eagerly pay the penalties associated with tickets.  But on the same token, if my "modif

That's apples and oranges.

If my "1,000HP dyno sheet 2009 Charger/Challenger" in your example was involved in a collision or theft, I'd want to ensure it was covered 100% for everything possible...    

Cooter I realize you have a perfect driving record and that's not the issue....your main issue is that State Farm cancelled your Dart under their collector car insurance program because of its modifications.

[skip68]

I had Hagerty (think that's right spelling) on my charger with an agreed amount of $35k.  I told them I don't care if aliens came down and damaged or took my car I want it fully covered.   They needed pictures and any modifications done to it.   It originally had a 318 and was swapped to a 440.  They never said anything about it.   Kinda surprised me they didn't question anything about engine mods and I wasn't about to tell them either.   

[Cooter]

Wow Tuff. Funny thing, I asked that very same thing when they kept after me to bundle all my antiques.
never mentioned anything bout roll cages. Big tires. Or hood scoops. Guess as long as they insured a slant 6 car back in 97, they just assumed it was sit a slant 6 car huh? They just assumed that if they informed me of their restrictions, that they wouldn't have made as much money off my ass??
Instead, my keen eye caught their coverage on one of the thousands of statements they sent me, and figured once pics of the car after about 15 years, wouldn't have changed one bit. Yeah, it was my fault as I've stated for being naive for thinking they had a good customers interest at heart.

Again, no biggie. They will get no more of my "Rich man's toy" money...

Okay, I still love you man....and there's no issues with you personally Big Lug    .....but, I do have something to say about your insurance problem.

I've gone on record to say I hate fakes so how can I approve of this?  The car was a basic /6 Dart insured for $30K. As much as a I admire you for that, you've got more than you've paid for plain and simple.  Now you're just gonna have to pay the piper going forward.  

Hey if I was the company insuring your slant six Dart for $30k, I'd be asking the same questions and requesting pictures (.....and frankly you would also).  something musta got lost in translation.  I most certainly did NOT have it insured for $30k. I didn't expect to get anywhere near that for a car I'm selling for $13k obo. I DID state that I've paid them over $30k in 30 years. For basically, nothing but a tax to drive my junk.

Its no biggie.  I just don't see why you're so pissed at the insurance company for doing a little bit of investigative work. You've received cheaper insurance for years, so you really shouldn't be complaining at all.
They DIDN'T do any investigating. I sent the required pics. Let's not pretend I'm totally ignorant of insurance companies here as you would have others believe. The main reason I'm pissed is without any prior record, no actual proof of racing, I get a nice little cancellation letter before Xmas. That way I can't call anyone while I was really pissed off. Instead, I called my agent and demanded he explain why a customer of 30 years WITHOUT NARRY A SINGLE CLAIM, would be treated like the typical POS, douche that signed up and turns in a claim 6 months later of $30k. I was pissed because this is considered 'the norm' now.
By the way we're all getting older..... and the older we get, the more honest we should be.  My two cents worth.  

[Cooter]

I'm all but positive everybody here calls their insurance company FIRST thing after gettin a speed in ticket right??
I'm all but positive everybody that buys an aftermarket supercharger for their 2009 Charger/Challenger calls and faxes right over a copy of that 1000 HP @ rear tires dyno sheet....I will agree that most people don't have money falling out of their asses to eagerly pay the penalties associated with tickets.  But on the same token, if my "modif

That's apples and oranges.

If my "1,000HP dyno sheet 2009 Charger/Challenger" in your example was involved in a collision or theft, I'd want to ensure it was covered 100% for everything possible...    

Cooter I realize you have a perfect driving record and that's not the issue....your main issue is that State Farm cancelled your Dart under their collector car insurance program because of its modifications.

First off, it was not covered under "collector" insurance. 'Antique' insurance through State Farm is just basically Comprehensive,  that's cheaper due to mileage not being principal driver.

Oranges2oranges. Mods are mods. There are folks all over this country, many on this board who have daily's that have been modded performance wise. They are most certainly NOT calling up their insurance company about every single damn thing they are doing. Yet, they have no idea that come claim time, they stand a damn good chance of being denied. I'm just the first out the gate, therefore, it's easy to state "what's the big deal?"

I know the whereabouts of Rex's green GYC Charger and it's NOT with him. All over insurance type surprises. When it's in someone else's back yard, the rules of common sense change all of a sudden.

[bill440rt]

btw: it was covered under FULL coverage (comprehensive for the geeks)

First off, it was not covered under "collector" insurance. 'Antique' insurance through State Farm is just basically Comprehensive,  that's cheaper due to mileage not being principal driver.

This is interesting. I wonder what was covered under that "Comprehensive" policy. Because, by definition, Comprehensive is not "full" coverage. It's basically just that: Comprehensive. It covers against theft, vandalism, fire, flood, loss with an animal (deer hit), or act of God (tree falls on vehicle). What is NOT covered is collision (VERY important to have!). Other areas of concern are uninsured motorist, bodily injury, towing, etc etc. Comp & collision would have 2 separate deductibles.
Many collector car insurance policies have full coverage for comp & collision. Many include towing, BI, uninsured motorist, even spare parts in your garage are covered! With agreed value, you'll know what you're covered for in full amount.

Check into a few & read their policies.
Most will have separate policies for stock and modified/custom. Which, I find odd because especially with Mopars a stock OE-type resto can sometimes easily surpass in dollars a built-to-taste modified car.      I guess they see it as a higher risk with a modified or custom car. Modified policies will usually have a higher premium vs stock (in the case of American Collector's it does). Yes, they will ask questions and you'll have to supply them with pictures.
Good luck!

[Mike DC]

    
I agree with the side that the Dart no longer sounds very much like what the company believed they were insuring anymore.  A few mods are one thing but this was quite a bit over a long period of time.  



Having said that, IMO insurance companies should be subject to punitive damages when they do ridiculous stuff.  Right now they have no incentive not to just resist paying anything to anyone, reasonable or not.  

Its no different than if Walmart routinely took your money at the cash register first, and then spent the next 6 months trying to deny you the merchandise, just because a percentage of customers would eventually give up and let them keep it.  Why is this legal?  

[Highbanked Hauler]

No one covers track use that I have ever heard of.  Hell, the tracks don't even cover track use, you sign a waiver before you enter the pits.

   Thats a given and always has been.  Unless it has changed an ins. co. state by state coverage can be different.  I have State Farm for street vehicles and homeowners ins. The funny thing is they wanted us  to include life ins. also but when they found out I was in Vietnam that stopped right there. The answer why they wouldn't cover me  could fill a book and I could have fought it but it would cost more than it was worth for what I'd get. Uck them.

[hatersaurusrex]

Remember - the goal of the insurance company is to make money, not to 'help you in your time of need'.   Their ads can be very effective in making you believe otherwise, but it's a business plain and simple.   We live in the digital age, where slick commercials and marketing campaigns are 10 times more effective at bringing in revenue than word of mouth.   I mean look at GEICO - they're humongous and they have a Cockney Gecko riding around on a sailboat and making jokes.   Somehow that gets people to say 'I want to insure my stuff with that company - the one with the funny lizard wearing a captain's hat'.  This is the world we live in.

If the company spends a crapload on advertising and agent commissions, then there's less money to pay out in claims before they take a profit.  They're always going to give priority to the thing that MAKES money for them - agents and commercials.   Once those are covered, they figure out how to tweak their claims out of what's left to keep the ship afloat and the company growing.  it's basic business.   Look at State Farm - a brick and mortar on every corner and craploads of ads with NFL quarterbacks and whatnot.    The money spent there is money saved when they deny your claim.

They're not stupid - they realize they're going to dick over a certain percentage of their customers but as long as this shell game brings in more net new customers and keeps them longer, then they'll keep doing it.

[bill440rt]

Remember - the goal of the insurance company is to make money, not to 'help you in your time of need'.   Their ads can be very effective in making you believe otherwise, but it's a business plain and simple.   We live in the digital age, where slick commercials and marketing campaigns are 10 times more effective at bringing in revenue than word of mouth.   I mean look at GEICO - they're humongous and they have a Cockney Gecko riding around on a sailboat and making jokes.   Somehow that gets people to say 'I want to insure my stuff with that company - the one with the funny lizard wearing a captain's hat'.  This is the world we live in.

If the company spends a crapload on advertising and agent commissions, then there's less money to pay out in claims before they take a profit.  They're always going to give priority to the thing that MAKES money for them - agents and commercials.   Once those are covered, they figure out how to tweak their claims out of what's left to keep the ship afloat and the company growing.  it's basic business.   Look at State Farm - a brick and mortar on every corner and craploads of ads with NFL quarterbacks and whatnot.    The money spent there is money saved when they deny your claim.

They're not stupid - they realize they're going to dick over a certain percentage of their customers but as long as this shell game brings in more net new customers and keeps them longer, then they'll keep doing it.

The goal of ANY company is to make money.
Corporations budget for advertising, but probably not at the expense of a lesser product. Coca-Cola has a HUGE advertising segment, yet it's still the same ol' Coke.

If you haven't noticed there is a fierce competition amongst insurance companies these days. Geiko, State Farm, Progressive, Allstate, Farmers, Liberty Mutual, etc all have big ad campaigns going on right now.   

[Cooter]

Thing is, I'm not stupid either. The whole thing that pissed me off was the fact that the underwriters just simply sent out a letter on Xmas eve. Knowing I couldn't get a hold of jack sh*t until after the first of year.

Kinda like when someone knows your gonna be pissed, if they call you. So, they send some impersonal text. Which pissed you off worse than if they hadda just called.

No biggie. I got better coverage,  went through Hagerty for antiques, and cost less per month.
I cancelled all policies with State Farm. Of course, companies need to make money. I get that, but what pissed me off is all they've done is make money off me. I know idiots that get a policy and 6 months later total a $40k car. Even when I tore up my junk when it WASN'T my fault, I never asked for a dime and they treat me like some schmuck that signed up yesterday?! Bullsh*t on that.

Until the average public redefines their importance by demanding companies like these at least treat their customers like they 'claim'(pun intended), this will continue to be the 'norm'. Well, I see guys here posting bout how if their car was treated like that, or if that happened to them they'd do this, etc. Yet, when one does expect more, all he gets is "that's the norm dumbass.did you think you were special or something???"

Well......yes, yes I did. I'm the minority when it comes to insurance. I deserved better.

[ws23rt]

The only way I see us (the consumer) getting what we pay for is to keep shopping for the company that want's our business and would like to take it away from the others.
The fact that many of us have been with one company for 20 or 30 years does tell our part of the story.
And how would we know how we will be treated until we have a claim? ---conversations like this.

[1974dodgecharger]

so they DENY ALL HELLCATS NOW??

[Ghoste]

I also love how they inspre "loyalty" by lowering your premium a little after being with them for X amount of time.  And then make one claim, or like Cooter no claim at all, they fire your rates up or they just drop you.  One response seems a tad more extreme than the other.
Hmm, maybe the lower rate isn't a loyalty reward, maybe the up front one is a money grab to get as much as they can before they drop you or you go elsewhere for better.

[skip68]

Insurance should be based only on four things.   You're age, your experience, your driving record and the vehicle.   After a certain age (say 40yrs) it should be strictly based on your record.   If you make it through your teens, 20's,and 30's with no accidents, no claims and have a good DMV record the chances are slim to none that you're going to become a risk.   Like cooter I've never filed a claim and at 45 years old with a good record it's not likely I'm gonna start crashing cars or motorcycles and filing claims.   The whole insurance game is about the level of risk a person is to insure.   So guys like myself, cooter and many others should be considered low risk no matter what we're driving.   So why would state farm give me a motorcycle quote that almost matches my 18 year old no experienced sons?      I've been riding motorcycles/ race bikes for almost 30years and am extremely experienced.   I was and am very confused with them.   You'd think they'd love to take my money.    I told the lady something's not right and do it again.   She came back with the same numbers.  I asked how is this possible, what's the issue?   She said it's the type of motorcycle.   

[John_Kunkel]

Bottom line is, some people misrepresent the cars they are trying to insure. The masses shouldn't be expected to know all the nuances in the insurance industry but it should be obvious that things like non-factory roll cages and big meats disqualify a muscle car from the "Antique" classification.

[TUFCAT]

This concept of under-insuring valuable items may be common to some.... but I don't subscribe to the notion.

I want my stuff insured 100% with everything up to date. Risk is the reason insurance exists in the first place, and that's not a burden I'm willing to carry on my shoulders....

Here's an example of a risk.  Let's say you remodeled your home, basement, or even garage.  You should want your insurance company to know about any changes that increased your home's value to protect yourself from loss.  Sure you're going to pay more,  but you'll also be getting more.  

When people say they got "screwed" by insurance, they most likely got exactly what their policy covered.   Insurance companies are not obligated to do anything more than make you whole.  You're covered according to your policy limits for the coverage you paid for. So if your policy wasn't up to date (or didn't cover what you thought it should), it probably wasn't the insurance company's fault.  

In defense of the consumer, I agree not all insurance companies are "easy to deal with".  That's why you have to shop around, pay attention, and get all the facts before deciding on the best policy.  

When it comes down to insuring you valuables, cheap is usually no good.....and good is usually not cheap.  

[bill440rt]

Great points, Tuffy. 

I hear it all the time. "The insurance company isn't even covering my f**king rental!!" 
Meanwhile, they don't even have rental coverage on their policy. 

[TUFCAT]

Great points, Tuffy.  

I hear it all the time. "The insurance company isn't even covering my f**king rental!!"  
Meanwhile, they don't even have rental coverage on their policy.  

Plus, there's an estimated 40 Billion dollars lost by consumer fraud/insurance scams each year.....that's $400 and $700 per year in the form of increased premiums (non-heath care related).

[bill440rt]

Great points, Tuffy.  

I hear it all the time. "The insurance company isn't even covering my f**king rental!!"  
Meanwhile, they don't even have rental coverage on their policy.  

Plus, there's an estimated 40 Billion dollars lost by consumer fraud/insurance scams each year.

You mean like when a person has, say, a vehicle used for commercial purposes but insured as a regular vehicle?