Why spend 12K on a stroker

[ACUDANUT]

You could have the real deal, a 426 Hemi for the same price.  WTH

[JB400]

Not everyone can pony up that much in one hit.

[moparnation74]

In my past life, I was a numbers kind of guy in relation to horsepower.  Currently, I would rather have the elephant versus a stroker.  However, there will be opinions all over the place.

[Ghoste]

Depends on your wants too, that stroker will spank the Hemi and be cheaper to maintain if that's your bag.  Also to be fair 12k is running to the high side for a stroker and the low side for a Hemi.

[myk]

Depends on your wants too, that stroker will spank the Hemi and be cheaper to maintain if that's your bag.  Also to be fair 12k is running to the high side for a stroker and the low side for a Hemi.

Exactly.  If someone absolutely MUST drink the Hemi Kool-aid then so be it, but there are cheaper, arguably better alternatives to an elephant...

[69wannabe]

I would love to have a 528 hemi myself. 600 horses would be nice to drive around with I believe but I think you would have about 20 grand in it by the time it was all said and done. With that said a good 500 inch stroker wedge can be pieced together for around 6 to 8  grand depending on what heads you go with and can make 500+ horses with even a mild build. Hemi is king no doubt but the 426/465 is kind of a let down considering a well built 440 can kick them numbers out, I would rather do a 472 or a 528 where the numbers are in the very nice hp range. Alot of opinion's to be said of this subject but the money range is the biggest hold up when it comes to a hemi. 

[Ghoste]

I'm going to be putting a Hemi in mine in a year or so. 

[flyinlow]

Do you think the Eddy Hemi heads will change the game?

[Mike DC]

  
Hemis are pretty damn heavy.  Not only the Hemi heads & valvetrain but also the block situation - it's probably going to be a repro Hemi block (extra metal everywhere) versus a used stock 440 block.  Grand total difference between a repro iron Hemi w/alloy heads, versus an old iron 440 w/alloy heads . . . that could be 120 lbs easy. 

Imagine driving around with an extra 904 tranny chained in place on top of your hood.  You can throw horsepower at the problem in a straight line but nothing fixes the handling/braking downsides. 

[redmist]

I made 500 HP on a basic 30 over 440. I am nowhere close to 12K into my motor. I think you would have a real basic 450 HP Hemi at 12K???

[Aero426]

The only Hemi you can buy for 12k these days is one you will have to put more money into.   

[1974dodgecharger]

The only Hemi you can buy for 12k these days is one you will have to put more money into.   

or get lucky, lol...my buddy in Texas found a HEMI 426 year of 69 and rebuilt with price, built sheet, etc..he got it for 12k himself complete direct drop in with dizzy, carbs, etc...yeah he got lucky.

[Cooter]

The ONLY reason this is even a possibility at all of being discussed imo, is dollars vs performance.
stroker wedge has hemi beat all way round the horn. The ONLY thing (ironically) that supposedly makes the Hemi so many of these dollars, was the legacy of performance.
Myself, I'd much rather be outrun by a Hemi, than in a Hemi. Because that 40 years of performance coat tails that engine's followers have been riding is a double edged sword.

There are $5k turbo LS (325 c.I.) engines that will crush a $20k 528 Hemi, and can be driven every day.
face it, no matter how you wanna look at this, the entire thread is based on a  performance.
The famed Hemi was, is, and will continue to be a rich man's toy.

[RIDELIKEHELL]

I made 500 HP on a basic 30 over 440. I am nowhere close to 12K into my motor. I think you would have a real basic 450 HP Hemi at 12K???

ditto

[Mike DC]

  
Mopar spent millions creating the 426 Hemi in 1964.  They did it at the height of the Max Wedges' success.  

The first rich man didn't get a toy 426 Hemi in a street car until Bill France forced it in 1966.  That was two years, one winning season, a bunch of records, and one boycotted season, after the Hemi started winning races.  


I think it's fair to say the gen-2 Hemi was more than just a rich man's toy.    

[Cooter]

Assuming we were referring to street hemis....
Anyone racing back in 1962-64 had some form of independent wealth as everybody woulda been doin it.
and to buy or get hands on one of the first race hemis imo, one had to have money.
That MUST surely be why the Hemi was an $800.00 option then. Which back in 66-71 was a sh*tload of car payments.
That must surely be why the new Hellcat with it's hemi costs so much.
That must be why the Hemi costs $20k just to own. Even though it doesn't cost anywhere near that to produce.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[Mike DC]

  
I'm not saying it isn't expensive.

I'm saying the expense was a drawback, not the reason for its invention.  



Mopar was selling loads of Hemis in the 1950s because it's a better design.  It wasn't a buzzword until they made it one.  GM & Ford knew it too but 7-liter wedges were cheaper to produce than 6-liter Hemis.  Mopar spent several years offering a better design but it didn't sway enough buyers.  So Mopar reverted to bigger wedges in the 1960s for the same reason GM & Ford were doing it.  

Then in late '63 when Mopar wanted to make a serious power increase for that bigger wedge, they slapped a set of Hemi heads back onto it.  Even charging customers an extra $800 didn't make the 426 Hemi a cost-effective program.  It took Bill France to push them into selling it at all, and they dropped it again as soon as the horsepower war was peaking in '71.  They were working on the cheaper ball-stud Hemi compromise at the time.


The history paints a pretty clear picture:

Wedge = cheap.  

Hemi = powerful.


-------------------------------------------

As for the modern gen-III Hemi?  

Car guys are all convinced it was a buzzword for marketing.  But the fact is Mopar was surprised by the response they got to the 'Hemi" reintroduction.  Some fans at the company had to initially lobby hard just to get Mopar to paint the new Hemis orange.  It was a great marketing tool but they stumbled into it.   (4-5 years later they still didn't predict any demand for a retro-looking 2dr muscle car, remember?  The top brass was clueless.)

Mopar probably went back to the Hemi design 15 years ago because of emissions reasons more than anything else.  The 360 Magnum was powerful but it had the emissions & gas mileage of about a 460 Magnum.  Mopar wanted a fresh powerful motor with a big bore size and that meant the combustion chambers had to be designed WELL.  Every company is spending far more on engines than they did 50 years ago so the Hemi's increased cost was less of a factor than it once was.

[Ghoste]

I agree Mike. 

[Cooter]

All this,  and still a rich man's toy. Argue all you want....

[Ghoste]

These are ALL rich mans toys.

[Cooter]

Not all of em. Just some....

[Scaregrabber]

If Mopar hadn't built the Hemi starting in 64 there would be no Mopars in the record books of MASCAR and NHRA today. Both NASCAR and NHRA legislated the Hemi out of competition so the favoured GM and Ford could win. No Mopar wedge has ever been factored out of competition because it took a Hemi to beat the GM and Ford offerings, the Wedge couldn't keep up.
Today there are aftermarket parts (especially heads) so the wedge is a bit better than it was when it was truly needed, but it didn't have it back then.
Ronnie Sox never could have won even one Pro Stock race if he had to run a wedge, Petty never would have been able to run 175MPH in 64 with a wedge. But I guess some of you guys don't like cold hard facts.

Sheldon

[Mike DC]

  
Exactly.  The wedges are great motors and they have done a lot to convert people to Mopar in real world experience.  But that four-letter word put Mopar in the record books.  



I agree with Cooter that the wedges weren't always rich mens' toys.  But pretty much all muscle cars are rich mens' toys today.

These cars stopped being truly working-class toys when the local pick & pulls ran dry of them in the early 1990s.  They were only cheap when the whole country was buying the same basic platforms & mechanicals.  That diluted the engineering costs & provided an endless supply of cheap used parts. 
   

[1974dodgecharger]

I hate mopar now...when you think about it...why does it even exist....BOOOOOOO

[Cooter]

Sometimes, it's just like trying to explain reality TV to people who actually believe if is reality.

The Hemi didn't single handedly make or break Chrysler imo. the 383's/440's/440+6's, in the heyday of performance sold three times as many to the average Joe street racing. Mostly,Only the doctor's/lawyers/etc. Down the block got brand new Hemi Cuda simply because of the cost. Today, it's a different story all together. You have morons who can't pay for what they have attempting to purchase new Hellcats.

Many will tell you while records at the track with hemis are nice, street racing one against your buddies 440+6 road runner was a gamble at best. Same 'll story. Living off 40 years of coat tails about the baddest on the block, when many times today, the hemi guys refuse to run it for fear of "hurting their investment"...

Meanwhile, the wedge counterparts are being bought, stroked, nitroused, and turbo without fear if popping a $35-40k hemi.
A Charger body can be had in rough condition but complete for $10k. (318)
A "hemi" Charger body missing everything except build sheet and all numbers, that would make Fred Flintstone proud, still sells higher. ......
Again, rich man's toy.

Btw wedge cheap. Hemi performance? I call bullshit*t.cause sooner or later that hemi guy is gonna run outta money and the wedge will surpass in performance. If the hemi guy doesn't run outta money? Then, here again.....rich man.

[69wannabe]

Yes, the big hemi is what I would call big money compared to a well built stroked eddy headed wedge and unless the hemi is in the 600+ hp range it may be behind the wedge IMO. A guy in town where I live has a 69 road runner and he bought a 426 crate hemi and dropped it in there and I ran across him at my local tire store and it was kinda funny how he was bragging on his hemi and bla, bla, bla when the owner of the tire store came out while they were balancing the tires on my charger and told him I had a 493ci under the hood of my charger with the 4-speed that would give his hemi a run for the money!! It was funny to see the expression on his face when he told him that. I offered to take him for a quick spin in my car but he passed, I wasn't going to do anything crazy just a quick trip down a strait and back just to let him get a feel of the 493. Didn't take my buddy about 10 seconds to figure it out, he was giving me a hard time about it but I didn't have it running as good then as it is now. Had just got it in and got it going and working alot of the bugs out when he was picking at me about it. Be nice to say yeah it's a hemi just because if it ever went to the sale block it would bring big bucks being in there.....

[Ghoste]

So I guess the wedge guys never run out of money?

[69wannabe]

So I guess the wedge guys never run out of money?

It's just easier to come up with a RB block and build from there. A hemi block starts out about 3 grand when you can pick up a 440 block for around 2 to 4 hundred bucks and buy a stroker kit for around 2 grand and already have a good start on a solid short block for less than 3 grand. You could build 2 high hp wedges for what one 426 hemi will cost you. Don't get me wrong I would love to have a hemi in my charger but unless I won the lottery or something like that it will not ever happen. It's just not something that could be built or bought piece at a time that could be affordable. Even finding a 440 is getting harder and harder these days since anybody that has one or two are holding on to them but they are still around.

[Scaregrabber]

No doubt about it. The wedges were what was on the street way back when and in stock form they kicked butt on the street. The Hemi's that set the records were tickled to death to bring out their potential.
Where I grew up though, the original owners of Street Hemi's were working guys that worked OT to buy them. These guys spent hours tuning them and they dominated the street scene. It was actually later, like in the late 70's until now that "rich guys" bought them and didn't keep them tuned up and wouldn't run you on the street or track.
Quote from Swede (an original owner of a black 69 Street Hemi 4 speed in my home town) "Yep my Hemi sucked that LS6 in one carb and spit it out the other". Does this sound like some gold chainer that didn't know how to tune a Hemi for a street race? BTW I seen Swede eat that Chevelle and it was at a sanctioned race in 1970 with lots of witnesses. I bought my first Street Hemi in 1980 and was lucky enough to have our local track open the same year. I kicked lots of butt with that car and I was happy it was at the track where there were witnesses and timing clocks. Street racing was generally all about the BS and lots of kiddies that drove 318's and 350's did nothing but start untrue rumours.

If you're building a truly hot wedge these days you're going to need an aftermarket block, so there goes your cheap wedge because you also need aftermarket heads, crank, rods, pistons, intake and valvetrain. So if you want 650HP and up, you're going to spend the same as a Hemi, no doubt about it. If you're building 500HP no problem the stock, wornout wedge stuff will do it, just don't think you're truly going to run with the big dogs.

Sheldon

[Ghoste]

So I guess the wedge guys never run out of money?

It's just easier to come up with a RB block and build from there.

Yeah I know, I was just firing a shot at the comment that the Hemi guy will run out of money.

[Mike DC]

If you're building a truly hot wedge these days you're going to need an aftermarket block, so there goes your cheap wedge because you also need aftermarket heads, crank, rods, pistons, intake and valvetrain. So if you want 650HP and up, you're going to spend the same as a Hemi, no doubt about it. If you're building 500HP no problem the stock, wornout wedge stuff will do it, just don't think you're truly going to run with the big dogs.

[Ghoste]

You can do a quickie compare just with Indy Cylinder Heads ad.  They have a 572 Bracket Master wedge for 20k and a 572 Legend Hemi for 23k.  The Hemi makes more hp and the wedge makes more torque.

[Troy]

If you the average drive-it-to-Sonic-for-a-milkshake owner why do you need to spend $12k at all? Technology has come so far that building anything "stock" leaves it at a severe disadvantage. Heck, a new Camry puts up better numbers than most musclecars did back in the day. In the past, if you were a serious racer the Hemi had the advantage - and, therefore, it is a legend. With modern tech the gap is decidedly smaller - especially considering there are small blocks and 6 cylinder engines breaking 1,000 HP. If you want the "best" you're going to spend money. If you want what's necessary you can do it a lot cheaper. Other than wasting money on tires, I honestly have no idea why so many people feel the need for big inch stroker motors on the street. At least the Hemi has the "wow factor" when you pop open the hood - even if it doesn't run!

And, for the record, you might be able to technically purchase a Hemi for near $12k but it ain't going anywhere without a pile of cash thrown at it - especially if you want it to look stock!

Troy

[LUMI]

hell... why did i spent a lot more than 12K for my 607 B1 headed 942hp/886lbft Wedge

[ACUDANUT]

If you the average drive-it-to-Sonic-for-a-milkshake owner why do you need to spend $12k at all? Technology has come so far that building anything "stock" leaves it at a severe disadvantage. Heck, a new Camry puts up better numbers than most musclecars did back in the day. In the past, if you were a serious racer the Hemi had the advantage - and, therefore, it is a legend. With modern tech the gap is decidedly smaller - especially considering there are small blocks and 6 cylinder engines breaking 1,000 HP. If you want the "best" you're going to spend money. If you want what's necessary you can do it a lot cheaper. Other than wasting money on tires, I honestly have no idea why so many people feel the need for big inch stroker motors on the street. At least the Hemi has the "wow factor" when you pop open the hood - even if it doesn't run!

And, for the record, you might be able to technically purchase a Hemi for near $12k but it ain't going anywhere without a pile of cash thrown at it - especially if you want it to look stock!

Troy

Well you get my point.  I would still rather have a 426 Hemi than a 12-15K stroker.  A 15K Hemi is very reachable.

[hatersaurusrex]

I gave significantly less than 12K for this one - granted it needs to be assembled and I'll put a few K towards that - but with two cranks, two sets of pistons, a pair of A990 aluminum K heads and a set of 1050 street dominators in the deal, I'd say I got quite a bit of hemi bang for the buck.   Frankly I no longer care how stock it looks (funny how that works), and I'm pretty sure a roots charger is going where that tunnel ram is sitting before it's all said and done.

I might just drive it to Sonic for some milkshakes, but I bet I get there and back faster than anyone else.  I mean, when you need a milkshake Troy, you need a milkshake and fast.  Am I right?

I'm thrilled with it - but I won't sit here and be one of those guys who says 'deals are out there if you look' though.  I looked for a long time - had actually decided to buy a 400 and stroke/supercharge the piss out of it - then out of nowhere came a literal barn find that fell in my lap.  I could have 'looked' for another 10 years and never found it.  One of those things that always seems to happen to other guys, but it finally happened to me for once

I'll save the stroker idea for my next Mopar - or just build another car around this motor and put a nice stroked RB or B mill in my '68.   I'm half tempted to mock it up in the engine bay of my CJ7 just to send the guys on the jeep boards running for cover

20141115_151309 by tecmotimes, on Flickr

[Ghoste]

For most of us, a reliable Hemi is likely closer to 20k IMO.

[Mike DC]

  
I'm a little surprised the old Stage-V Hemi conversions aren't more popular.  

Yeah I know it doesn't save much more than the price of a block.  But that still means saving $3000, and 100 lbs of front end weight.  Lots of street-driven repro crate Hemis will never get worked hard enough to kill a stock 440 block and the owners know that going into it.  

[Patronus]

A 5.7 would be fine with me. Just as long as I get that door chrome. 

[charge69]

I spent an easy 14K just REBUILDING (professional shop, not me) my HEMI.  It is just .0030 over but true 11 to 1 JE custom pistons all ARP fasteners, Manley Rods and SS valves,  complete Compcams hyd roller cam kit including custom-cut push rods (cam is one-off, just for this build) all new OEM rockers etc.

All said and done, engine dynoed at 588hp @ 6500rpm.  Not too bad for a 432 cu. in. street HEMI.  When installed in the Charger, it got a full TTi x-pipe exhaust system including headers.

I was bleeding money for it!

[cdr]

looks like you bled enough to paint your car red 

[Scaregrabber]

Best deal I ever got was in 1980. I bought a 73 Cuda with a good running 426 Hemi in it for $3200. Drove it home Quesnel to Prince George B.C. on bald N50's on glare ice one March day. A week later I piled 4 buddies into the car and we ran it at 150MPH for a few miles. Those were the days. Pulled the 440 out of my Challenger, put it into the Cuda and sold it for $2500. I haven't been the same ever since.

Sheldon

[charge69]

Hi CDR,

I most certainly did bleed enough to paint the car but, ....................... buying the paint was "extra" !

[ACUDANUT]

I wish a 426 would fall in my hands someday. I have been looking for 30 years now. 

[Ghoste]

Why does no one ever seem to think that a Hemi owner would never throw the same technology at one of those engines as the smallblock and six cylinder guys?  Or the ricer crowd for that matter?  I read every now and again about throwing turbos and nitrous at wedge engines and then the Hemi is a an ancient has been.  Hemi lovers never dare the wedge crowd to add gobs of nitromethane and a giant blower.

[Mike DC]

                          
The biggest limitation on anyone's speed isn't their cylinder head design, it's their money.  

It takes the greater part of 1000 horsepower before the Hemi starts being more cost-effective than a wedge.  Most guys have already gotten pretty committed to one engine by the time they're dealing in numbers that big.  

[69wannabe]

                         
The biggest limitation on anyone's speed isn't their cylinder head design, it's their money.  

It takes the greater part of 1000 horsepower before the Hemi starts being more cost-effective than a wedge.  Most guys have already gotten pretty committed to one engine by the time they're dealing in numbers that big.  

Very true!! I had one number in mind for my engine build and that was 500 hp. I know that's not necessarily reaching for the stars but very doable with the amount of money I had expected to spend. If I was doing a drag car and not a nice driver I would have had bigger numbers in mind but 500 hp should get me to town and back just fine. I do not have resources for a dyno but a few years back jeg's advertised a 493 wedge with a very similar build with 525 hp so I figure I hit my mark pretty close.

[Cooter]

Why does no one ever seem to think that a Hemi owner would never throw the same technology at one of those engines as the smallblock and six cylinder guys?  Or the ricer crowd for that matter?  I read every now and again about throwing turbos and nitrous at wedge engines and then the Hemi is a an ancient has been.  Hemi lovers never dare the wedge crowd to add gobs of nitromethane and a giant blower.

If a fuel injection set up for a WEDGE is in the $5k range, then you already know what it'll be for a Hemi...
same ol thing I've stated...
Hemi
Have
Enormous
Money
Invested

[69wannabe]

Why does no one ever seem to think that a Hemi owner would never throw the same technology at one of those engines as the smallblock and six cylinder guys?  Or the ricer crowd for that matter?  I read every now and again about throwing turbos and nitrous at wedge engines and then the Hemi is a an ancient has been.  Hemi lovers never dare the wedge crowd to add gobs of nitromethane and a giant blower.

If a fuel injection set up for a WEDGE is in the $5k range, then you already know what it'll be for a Hemi...
same ol thing I've stated...
Hemi
Have
Enormous



I agree Cooter!!! Most just want the best bang for the buck and the wedge is the best way to make power and torque without refinancing your home!!
Money
Invested

[Cooter]

Why does no one ever seem to think that a Hemi owner would never throw the same technology at one of those engines as the smallblock and six cylinder guys?  Or the ricer crowd for that matter?  I read every now and again about throwing turbos and nitrous at wedge engines and then the Hemi is a an ancient has been.  Hemi lovers never dare the wedge crowd to add gobs of nitromethane and a giant blower.

If a fuel injection set up for a WEDGE is in the $5k range, then you already know what it'll be for a Hemi...
same ol thing I've stated...
Hemi
Have
Enormous



I agree Cooter!!! Most just want the best bang for the buck and the wedge is the best way to make power and torque without refinancing your home!!
Money
Invested

IE: Rich man's toy.

[Ghoste]

If thats the case then I guess I'm a rich man too.  I sure as hell don't feel like it but I sure as hell aint going to apologize for it either.

[Cooter]

For every "rich man's toy", there will always be those who aren't 'rich', but will sell there souls to play on that field.
Instead of simply stating it's a rich man's toy, they will state how they've gotten it cheap by having it willed to them, or free, or whatever. These types are irrelevant,  as for the basic car guy that refuses to thumb down the Hemi bandwagon, even if it's unpopular, refuses to sell his/her soul for the sake of stating these few words "I own a Hemi". All. The while, not asking for apologies, they do call a spade a spade and refuse to apologize for that.

[Mike DC]

 
So lemme get this straight . . . if you spend $16k on a hot rod car engine then you are a rich man who wastes money chasing an image . . . but if you spend $12k for a different hot rod car engine then you are being smart & practical?

[Ghoste]

I'm confused also.  There could be genuinely wealthy Hemi owners out there who look at the 12k stroker and think of it as poor mans junk.  There are likely other people out there who can't even afford a daily driver that look at someone with a General Lee and a Christine and a high powered Challenger and so on and that guy thinks, "here I am walking and that guy has a shop full of rich mans toys".

[Cooter]

When you spend $500.00 on a 440 engine (core).
Spend another $8k for about 700 HP.

You spend $7-14k on a Hemi engine (core)
another $15k (as for example, rocker arms in the 'cheap' line are like $1500.00 for Hemi stuff, where top of line RACING stuff for wedge is $1500.00/T&D), for about 800 HP.

you need a calculator???

[Cooter]

I'm confused also.  There could be genuinely wealthy Hemi owners out there who look at the 12k stroker and think of it as poor mans junk.  There are likely other people out there who can't even afford a daily driver that look at someone with a General Lee and a Christine and a high powered Challenger and so on and that guy thinks, "here I am walking and that guy has a shop full of rich mans toys".

Funny you mentioned this, as I have a ASSLOAD of people that think this very same thing at cruise night.
I reply by stating I'm usually one of the 'irrelavant' ones as I'm an exception.

Usually, I engage these types in conversation. I begin by asking why they tend to ASSUME this.
it almost always takes a trip to emaginary prices being thrown about by rich people at auctions.

I then ask what kind of vehicle they are driving which usually garners something in the $50k range.
I then inform them that if they added up all my cars it wouldn't pay off their newer truck.  

[Ghoste]

I don't need a calculator Cooter.  You're missing the point that "rich" is a relative term.  You don't like Hemis and we all get that but to always cast disdain for them using a financial status ruler is just as much a form of elitism as anyone who only wants to be able to say they have a Hemi.

[Cooter]

I don't need a calculator Cooter.  You're missing the point that "rich" is a relative term.  You don't like Hemis and we all get that but to always cast disdain for them using a financial status ruler is just as much a form of elitism as anyone who only wants to be able to say they have a Hemi.

And you are missing the point that everything ALWAYS comes down to money...Always. no exceptions.
I have no problem with the Hemi. I love the Hemi. Hemi rates right on up there with p***y imo.

I just refuse to sell my soul to be a part of the 'elite' by spending insane amounts of money for less power (Hemi=performance right??), just so I can say I have a Hemi.

[Ghoste]

So how do you know then that the "rich" guy you want to dis because of the toy he chooses is any different?  If someone wants a Hemi because they want one, what the hell do you care?  How do you know they haven't worked and scraped their ass off to get one?
Oh wait, you already dismissed that type too.

"Instead of simply stating it's a rich man's toy, they will state how they've gotten it cheap by having it willed to them, or free, or whatever. These types are irrelevant,  "

[Ghoste]

I don't need a calculator Cooter.  You're missing the point that "rich" is a relative term.  You don't like Hemis and we all get that but to always cast disdain for them using a financial status ruler is just as much a form of elitism as anyone who only wants to be able to say they have a Hemi.

And you are missing the point that everything ALWAYS comes down to money...Always. no exceptions.

Bullshit.  

[Cooter]

I don't need a calculator Cooter.  You're missing the point that "rich" is a relative term.  You don't like Hemis and we all get that but to always cast disdain for them using a financial status ruler is just as much a form of elitism as anyone who only wants to be able to say they have a Hemi.

And you are missing the point that everything ALWAYS comes down to money...Always. no exceptions.

Bullshit.  

Talk about dismissing. ....

[Cooter]

Hemi requires more $$$$ just get in the game.

[Ghoste]

For every "rich man's toy", there will always be those who aren't 'rich', but will sell there souls to play on that field.
Instead of simply stating it's a rich man's toy, they will state how they've gotten it cheap by having it willed to them, or free, or whatever. These types are irrelevant,  

Absolutely dissing you and hypocritical statements like this one are why.  If someone builds a Hemi on the cheap they are irrelevant but if someone spends the coin to buy one already to go they are nothing but a rich man with toys but if someone points out you have more toys then they do then you need to explain that their values are skewed by auction prices and they couldn't finance their one vehicle with your entire fleet.
That kind of counterstatement deserves to be dissed.  Or maybe I should choose a nicer word like you did and say that your way is irrelevant or calling a spade a spade?

[Cooter]

So how do you know then that the "rich" guy you want to dis because of the toy he chooses is any different?  If someone wants a Hemi because they want one, what the hell do you care?

Cause that's kinda what this thread is about....cost vs power.
Hemi vs Wedge.

BTW: if someone wants to rebody a Daytona at the bottom of a cliff, using his own money, plans to never sellwhy do you care?

[Ghoste]

A clever distraction and my thoughts on that topic are widely known here. 
Note however that while I do not like rebodies and I do very often throw the money rock at them, I don't make a habit of using veiled insults to reduce the debate to a personal argument about financial status.
We are all well aware that Hemis cost more.  We are also well aware that below a certain level the wedge has superior cost to power benefits.  I have yet to hear a valid argument why someone is irrelevant if they scrape and save to get a Hemi just so they can say they have one.  Whether thy intend to sell it or not.

[Cooter]

For every "rich man's toy", there will always be those who aren't 'rich', but will sell there souls to play on that field.
Instead of simply stating it's a rich man's toy, they will state how they've gotten it cheap by having it willed to them, or free, or whatever. These types are irrelevant,  

Absolutely dissing you and hypocritical statements like this one are why.  If someone builds a Hemi on the cheap they are irrelevant but if someone spends the coin to buy one already to go they are nothing but a rich man with toys but if someone points out you have more toys then they do then you need to explain that their values are skewed by auction prices and they couldn't finance their one vehicle with your entire fleet.
That kind of counterstatement deserves to be dissed.  Or maybe I should choose a nicer word like you did and say that your way is irrelevant or calling a spade a spade?

I didn't expect you to get this, I didn't expect it to bother you as much because Cooter had a point either, but I degress....
The reason I call the "got it willed to me/free/do my own resto work" types as irrelavant is because they are the exceptions, NOT the rule/norm. While I think EVERYBODY here should require as a rule of muscle car ownership, some form of bodywork skills, this is not the norm. There are people here who REFUSE to do body work, 'can't' do it, etc. The ones that can save themselves huge $$$$$ on a resto are NOT THE NORM.

The norm is a roach resto will cost around $30-75k depending....
not for some, but they are irrelevant. Myself included...I fully expect, in fact I enjoy, people being surprized when I have far less in all six cars than they are paying for one newer diesel truck. BUT IT'S NOT THE NORM, otherwise, there's no surprise....I think you do need that calculator after all. Lol

[ws23rt]

This discussion has been all around and mostly about how much money does it take to push our charger down the road.

Looking at the original post I see a question. Can one have a hemi for the cost of a $12k stroker 440?

When one thinks about the cost of the rest of the car, a 12K cost for an engine is not a small part.
I suppose one could spend 12K on a slant six and have something special that would push the charger just fine.

Admittedly their are those that need the potential of making a particular ET at the drag strip but for the most part that will seldom ever happen with a hobby car. That's what drag cars are built for.

Is the bottom line about bragging that a 440 is built to out run a hemi?  A stock hemi only has to sit in the engine compartment with no claim at all about what it is.

It is true that much money is spent for performance that is never felt in the seat.

[Cooter]

This discussion has been all around and mostly about how much money does it take to push our charger down the road.

Looking at the original post I see a question. Can one have a hemi for the cost of a $12k stroker 440?

When one thinks about the cost of the rest of the car, a 12K cost for an engine is not a small part.
I suppose one could spend 12K on a slant six and have something special that would push the charger just fine.

Admittedly their are those that need the potential of making a particular ET at the drag strip but for the most part that will seldom ever happen with a hobby car. That's what drag cars are built for.

Is the bottom line about bragging that a 440 is built to out run a hemi?  A stock hemi only has to sit in the engine compartment with no claim at all about what it is.

It is true that much money is spent for performance that is never felt in the seat.

The lack of response by Ghoste to this reply kinda makes my point every time I claim to be the forum bastid.
talk about a contradiction in terms. If drag strip ET's weren't the purpose of the Hemi owner, then why own an engine FAMOUS for drag strip ET's???(yes, hemi based engines are still being used in drag racing. Far better drag racing records than any NASCAR crap)

If wedge to outrun a Hemi is soul purpose of this thread, it wouldn't have lasted 3 pages.
if all a Hemi has to do is sit there "with no claim as to what it is", then why is that???
Why does everything Hemi hafta cost three prices if all it has to do is sit there? Does every Hemi owner come time to PROVE all that Hemi power, just sit there?

If ET's were only for "drag cars", then that must be why at every stop light encounter I hear someone say "hey! You wanna run that Charger through three states?"

[ws23rt]

This discussion has been all around and mostly about how much money does it take to push our charger down the road.

Looking at the original post I see a question. Can one have a hemi for the cost of a $12k stroker 440?

When one thinks about the cost of the rest of the car, a 12K cost for an engine is not a small part.
I suppose one could spend 12K on a slant six and have something special that would push the charger just fine.

Admittedly their are those that need the potential of making a particular ET at the drag strip but for the most part that will seldom ever happen with a hobby car. That's what drag cars are built for.

Is the bottom line about bragging that a 440 is built to out run a hemi?  A stock hemi only has to sit in the engine compartment with no claim at all about what it is.

It is true that much money is spent for performance that is never felt in the seat.

The lack of response by Ghoste to this reply kinda makes my point every time I claim to be the forum bastid.
talk about a contradiction in terms. If drag strip ET's weren't the purpose of the Hemi owner, then why own an engine FAMOUS for drag strip ET's???

If wedge to outrun a Hemi is soul purpose of this thread, it wouldn't have lasted 3 pages.
if all a Hemi has to do is sit there "with no claim as to what it is", then why is that???
Why does everything Hemi hafta cost three prices if all it has to do is sit there?

If ET's were only for "drag cars", then that must be why at every stop light encounter I hear someone say "hey! You wanna run that Charger through three states?"

Cooter--I did not reply to this thread to take a particular side in a conflict.  I responded to the original question.
I have admired the hemi from since I was 14.----I was born in 1951-(the first hemi from Chrysler)---My middle initial is H. -I just like them and many do for reasons other than how much they cost to make power.  I bought my first hemi (just the engine) at age 15. It was a 331ci.  I had no car much less a license to drive.
My point with all this is their are others out there that just enjoy the history of our cars and not all of us do it for a dollar or HP number.
BTW I like hemis ---And Chargers

[Cooter]

Without replying like Ghoste did(bullshit), I'd hafta say I attempted to answer questions.
with all that said, all I'm stàting is there's a reason for a $12k stroker wedge over a $12k Hemi.

Nobody who's a Hemi fan (myself included) wants to face it. As with the engine, they will try everything to hafta not 'put down' by stating the obvious, their beloved Hemi. There are many reasons for this...
rare engine=money
not everybody has one=money to own for this reason
just has to sit there=performance history
$12k spent all it gets you is the word Hemi. That $12k stroker will crush it in performance. I always root for underdog. The wedge (like imports) next to the Hemi, gets little respect/wow factor. I believe this is wrong on many levels when it comes to reality.

[Cooter]

Double post

[Mike DC]

                                     
Aren't we all guilty of paying "way more money just for the image" with a Charger in the first place? 

A Coronet moves you down the road just as fast (or faster) in a cheaper package that is mechanically the same.  It even looks pretty similar to the average person. 

[1974dodgecharger]

Does a honda work?

[myk]

                                     
Aren't we all guilty of paying "way more money just for the image" with a Charger in the first place? 

A Coronet moves you down the road just as fast (or faster) in a cheaper package that is mechanically the same.  It even looks pretty similar to the average person. 

Gonna have to disagree here.  A Charger is not a Coronet and a Coronet is not a Charger.  I bought a Charger because I love the car itself; the opinion of the ogling public and the subsequent image mean nothing to me.  Charger could be what it is or seen as a Pinto and I couldn't care less.

Am I in the minority here?

[JB400]

The question in the quote was whether or not you'd pay more for a Charger over a Coronet, given that both cars are equipped exactly the same.  The same principal applies to a 550 hp. Hemi or a 550 hp. wedge.

[69wannabe]

I agree with cooter on this subject 99%. The title of this post is "why spend 12K on a stroker" Well in short the answer is a 12K stroker will eat a 12K hemi and spit out it's remain's!!! That is really the answer here. 12K is one badass wedge that I would hate to pull up beside at a stop light with my charger!! On the cheap "yes money" I built my 493 stroker for less than 7K and I was able to do it over a 10 to 12 month period that kept my head above water while I was building it and buying up parts and paying for machine work. And if I need to do any work to the engine or if I decide to make any changes I can actually do so without emptying my bank account. Parts for the hemi are three times more expensive than parts for the wedge. If I was dead set on having a hemi in my charger it would most likely still be sitting waiting for it. If you have the cash for the hemi that's great and i'm happy that there are the one's that can fulfill their dream of having the legenday hemi in their car but for most of us it will just be a dream that doesn't never come true. I ran a 383 for years and I was very excited just to swap a 440 into my old car. It was something that wasn't out of reach like a hemi. The thing about many (not all) hemi owners is that just like the guy at the tire store I ran up on was basically looking down his nose at my charger because it had a wedge in it and not a hemi like his road runner. When I offered to take him for a quick run up the road and back he changed is attitude and was much more interested in what I was running under the hood. After I backed it out of the stall and was letting it idle before I drove off I could see him checking out how it sounded. I would have loved to have heard what he had to say if he would've took a ride. I bet he would be avoiding me like I had a bad disease if he saw me on the road with his hemi!!! Not everybody is this way though so i'm not pointing any fingers. Basically if you have a 12K hemi all you have is the name and the wow factor when the hood is up but don't expect to be in front of everything on the road....