Why spend 12K on a stroker

[ACUDANUT]

You could have the real deal, a 426 Hemi for the same price.  WTH

[JB400]

Not everyone can pony up that much in one hit.

[moparnation74]

In my past life, I was a numbers kind of guy in relation to horsepower.  Currently, I would rather have the elephant versus a stroker.  However, there will be opinions all over the place.

[Ghoste]

Depends on your wants too, that stroker will spank the Hemi and be cheaper to maintain if that's your bag.  Also to be fair 12k is running to the high side for a stroker and the low side for a Hemi.

[myk]

Depends on your wants too, that stroker will spank the Hemi and be cheaper to maintain if that's your bag.  Also to be fair 12k is running to the high side for a stroker and the low side for a Hemi.

Exactly.  If someone absolutely MUST drink the Hemi Kool-aid then so be it, but there are cheaper, arguably better alternatives to an elephant...

[69wannabe]

I would love to have a 528 hemi myself. 600 horses would be nice to drive around with I believe but I think you would have about 20 grand in it by the time it was all said and done. With that said a good 500 inch stroker wedge can be pieced together for around 6 to 8  grand depending on what heads you go with and can make 500+ horses with even a mild build. Hemi is king no doubt but the 426/465 is kind of a let down considering a well built 440 can kick them numbers out, I would rather do a 472 or a 528 where the numbers are in the very nice hp range. Alot of opinion's to be said of this subject but the money range is the biggest hold up when it comes to a hemi. 

[Ghoste]

I'm going to be putting a Hemi in mine in a year or so. 

[flyinlow]

Do you think the Eddy Hemi heads will change the game?

[Mike DC]

  
Hemis are pretty damn heavy.  Not only the Hemi heads & valvetrain but also the block situation - it's probably going to be a repro Hemi block (extra metal everywhere) versus a used stock 440 block.  Grand total difference between a repro iron Hemi w/alloy heads, versus an old iron 440 w/alloy heads . . . that could be 120 lbs easy. 

Imagine driving around with an extra 904 tranny chained in place on top of your hood.  You can throw horsepower at the problem in a straight line but nothing fixes the handling/braking downsides. 

[redmist]

I made 500 HP on a basic 30 over 440. I am nowhere close to 12K into my motor. I think you would have a real basic 450 HP Hemi at 12K???

[Aero426]

The only Hemi you can buy for 12k these days is one you will have to put more money into.   

[1974dodgecharger]

The only Hemi you can buy for 12k these days is one you will have to put more money into.   

or get lucky, lol...my buddy in Texas found a HEMI 426 year of 69 and rebuilt with price, built sheet, etc..he got it for 12k himself complete direct drop in with dizzy, carbs, etc...yeah he got lucky.

[Cooter]

The ONLY reason this is even a possibility at all of being discussed imo, is dollars vs performance.
stroker wedge has hemi beat all way round the horn. The ONLY thing (ironically) that supposedly makes the Hemi so many of these dollars, was the legacy of performance.
Myself, I'd much rather be outrun by a Hemi, than in a Hemi. Because that 40 years of performance coat tails that engine's followers have been riding is a double edged sword.

There are $5k turbo LS (325 c.I.) engines that will crush a $20k 528 Hemi, and can be driven every day.
face it, no matter how you wanna look at this, the entire thread is based on a  performance.
The famed Hemi was, is, and will continue to be a rich man's toy.

[RIDELIKEHELL]

I made 500 HP on a basic 30 over 440. I am nowhere close to 12K into my motor. I think you would have a real basic 450 HP Hemi at 12K???

ditto

[Mike DC]

  
Mopar spent millions creating the 426 Hemi in 1964.  They did it at the height of the Max Wedges' success.  

The first rich man didn't get a toy 426 Hemi in a street car until Bill France forced it in 1966.  That was two years, one winning season, a bunch of records, and one boycotted season, after the Hemi started winning races.  


I think it's fair to say the gen-2 Hemi was more than just a rich man's toy.    

[Cooter]

Assuming we were referring to street hemis....
Anyone racing back in 1962-64 had some form of independent wealth as everybody woulda been doin it.
and to buy or get hands on one of the first race hemis imo, one had to have money.
That MUST surely be why the Hemi was an $800.00 option then. Which back in 66-71 was a sh*tload of car payments.
That must surely be why the new Hellcat with it's hemi costs so much.
That must be why the Hemi costs $20k just to own. Even though it doesn't cost anywhere near that to produce.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[Mike DC]

  
I'm not saying it isn't expensive.

I'm saying the expense was a drawback, not the reason for its invention.  



Mopar was selling loads of Hemis in the 1950s because it's a better design.  It wasn't a buzzword until they made it one.  GM & Ford knew it too but 7-liter wedges were cheaper to produce than 6-liter Hemis.  Mopar spent several years offering a better design but it didn't sway enough buyers.  So Mopar reverted to bigger wedges in the 1960s for the same reason GM & Ford were doing it.  

Then in late '63 when Mopar wanted to make a serious power increase for that bigger wedge, they slapped a set of Hemi heads back onto it.  Even charging customers an extra $800 didn't make the 426 Hemi a cost-effective program.  It took Bill France to push them into selling it at all, and they dropped it again as soon as the horsepower war was peaking in '71.  They were working on the cheaper ball-stud Hemi compromise at the time.


The history paints a pretty clear picture:

Wedge = cheap.  

Hemi = powerful.


-------------------------------------------

As for the modern gen-III Hemi?  

Car guys are all convinced it was a buzzword for marketing.  But the fact is Mopar was surprised by the response they got to the 'Hemi" reintroduction.  Some fans at the company had to initially lobby hard just to get Mopar to paint the new Hemis orange.  It was a great marketing tool but they stumbled into it.   (4-5 years later they still didn't predict any demand for a retro-looking 2dr muscle car, remember?  The top brass was clueless.)

Mopar probably went back to the Hemi design 15 years ago because of emissions reasons more than anything else.  The 360 Magnum was powerful but it had the emissions & gas mileage of about a 460 Magnum.  Mopar wanted a fresh powerful motor with a big bore size and that meant the combustion chambers had to be designed WELL.  Every company is spending far more on engines than they did 50 years ago so the Hemi's increased cost was less of a factor than it once was.

[Ghoste]

I agree Mike. 

[Cooter]

All this,  and still a rich man's toy. Argue all you want....

[Ghoste]

These are ALL rich mans toys.

[Cooter]

Not all of em. Just some....

[Scaregrabber]

If Mopar hadn't built the Hemi starting in 64 there would be no Mopars in the record books of MASCAR and NHRA today. Both NASCAR and NHRA legislated the Hemi out of competition so the favoured GM and Ford could win. No Mopar wedge has ever been factored out of competition because it took a Hemi to beat the GM and Ford offerings, the Wedge couldn't keep up.
Today there are aftermarket parts (especially heads) so the wedge is a bit better than it was when it was truly needed, but it didn't have it back then.
Ronnie Sox never could have won even one Pro Stock race if he had to run a wedge, Petty never would have been able to run 175MPH in 64 with a wedge. But I guess some of you guys don't like cold hard facts.

Sheldon

[Mike DC]

  
Exactly.  The wedges are great motors and they have done a lot to convert people to Mopar in real world experience.  But that four-letter word put Mopar in the record books.  



I agree with Cooter that the wedges weren't always rich mens' toys.  But pretty much all muscle cars are rich mens' toys today.

These cars stopped being truly working-class toys when the local pick & pulls ran dry of them in the early 1990s.  They were only cheap when the whole country was buying the same basic platforms & mechanicals.  That diluted the engineering costs & provided an endless supply of cheap used parts. 
   

[1974dodgecharger]

I hate mopar now...when you think about it...why does it even exist....BOOOOOOO

[Cooter]

Sometimes, it's just like trying to explain reality TV to people who actually believe if is reality.

The Hemi didn't single handedly make or break Chrysler imo. the 383's/440's/440+6's, in the heyday of performance sold three times as many to the average Joe street racing. Mostly,Only the doctor's/lawyers/etc. Down the block got brand new Hemi Cuda simply because of the cost. Today, it's a different story all together. You have morons who can't pay for what they have attempting to purchase new Hellcats.

Many will tell you while records at the track with hemis are nice, street racing one against your buddies 440+6 road runner was a gamble at best. Same 'll story. Living off 40 years of coat tails about the baddest on the block, when many times today, the hemi guys refuse to run it for fear of "hurting their investment"...

Meanwhile, the wedge counterparts are being bought, stroked, nitroused, and turbo without fear if popping a $35-40k hemi.
A Charger body can be had in rough condition but complete for $10k. (318)
A "hemi" Charger body missing everything except build sheet and all numbers, that would make Fred Flintstone proud, still sells higher. ......
Again, rich man's toy.

Btw wedge cheap. Hemi performance? I call bullshit*t.cause sooner or later that hemi guy is gonna run outta money and the wedge will surpass in performance. If the hemi guy doesn't run outta money? Then, here again.....rich man.